Heavy Break Cue 4 Weak Old Man?

As long as we are discussing breaks, how much of a factor is the table?
The room I play in daily has four Olhausen tables and everyone comments on how difficult
it is to make a ball on the break (8 ball). Almost seems that a second ball break makes more balls but the spread isn't as good.
 
physics?

uh, nope
physics much?

force...mass...acceleration

By your theory, would an 80-ounce cue be the same or better?

As a one-time serious bowler, I knew at age 12 that I could send a 10-pound ball down the lane much faster than a 16-pound ball.

I believe it's the same for pool. It's the speed that the cue travels (along with accuracy). I've experimented with break cues from 11 ounces to 25 ounces, and 48" to 60". For me the best balance between control and force is a 54-55" cue that weighs 16 ounces.

So I'm with Scott on this one.
 
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uh, nope
physics much?

force...mass...acceleration

Uh...physics much?

F=MA Doesn't mean squat without any numbers inputted.

Most 'weaker' players can generate more force by moving a lighter cue faster than by attempting moving a heavier cue but much slower.

However, there is a usually a sweet spot for most and it's very rarely at the extremes so it would be foolish to suggest that one start there.

In my opinion, a break cue that is just slightly lighter than one's playing cue offers the greatest acceleration gain with the least amount of conscious effort simply do to the affects of what some might call muscle memory, and because of this can lead to little to no loss of precision. I find that to be a pretty good compromise.

IMO.
 
Uh...physics much?

F=MA Doesn't mean squat without any numbers inputted.

Most 'weaker' players can generate more force by moving a lighter cue faster than by attempting moving a heavier cue but much slower.

However, there is a usually a sweet spot for most and it's very rarely at the extremes so it would be foolish to suggest that one start there.

In my opinion, a break cue that is just slightly lighter than one's playing cue offers the greatest acceleration gain with the least amount of conscious effort simply do to the affects of what some might call muscle memory, and because of this can lead to little to no loss of precision. I find that to be a pretty good compromise.

IMO.

Yep..... I would have to agree with this. I break with an 18 oz cue and rely on accuracy .
I don't jump up or put my body in the shot. I just simply use a faster stroke
 
just a suggestion if you want to use body movement in your break, use less shoulder and more hip. on a separate note, I use an 18oz BK2 and I can get a pretty good break just using a standard stroke. Just make sure you get a square hit on that head ball.

+1 on this advice. When you use more hip by raising your body during the stroke, it changes the angle of your shoulder to the cue. The "upright" angle creates much less stress and friction on the shoulder joint. It almost feels like you didn't use your arm/shoulder at all.

And when done properly it creates significantly more power. It's harder to control at first since your head/eyes aren't directly over the cue/shotline. The key is to make sure your bridge is solid and unmoving throughout the break.

I found it easier to practice it in slow motion to get the feel/timing of the body-rise/cue-motion before trying it at full speed.

This guy's had good luck with it. Note how relaxed his upper body and shoulder are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQRbQqv03ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfT6Ia5PD0g
 
I have had my shoulder replaced at the ripe old age of 25, and since then I have had to change my outlook on the break cue weight thing. I used to break with a 19oz cue that matched my playing cue and had a good break. Since 2001 when the shoulder was replaced and I lost 20% mobility I have been breaking with a 24oz cue and breaking better than I have ever broke before. I don't hurt after breaking. The only way I know to explain it is using ballistics for bullets. A 45acp shoots slower than a 25acp but which one would you rather be shot with?


wt muz energy muzzle vel
25 ACP Defender 22 150 1750

45 acp Fmj 230 365 845


slower speed more weight = more energy
 
I got the predator break app for my phone and tested the different cues I had lying around. I broke the hardest with the lightest, whippiest cue I had. It happened to be a $40.00 sneaky pete.

I'd rather have used the same cue with different weight bolts to take out more of the variables, but still pretty convinced I break harder with the lighter cue.
 
Grinding......

Because each of us are different in so many ways, it is best to try every combination of equipment but most importantly pay attention to your skill sets.

I have a BK2 break cue which I have always liked for breaking which weighs 19oz but I have had mixed results with it on the bar table and even less results on a 9 foot table. I seldom ever play 10 ball on any table, let alone a bar table, so I can't speak for that except in the skill set department.

My physical game has sort of deteriorated over the years and I run out of steam in long tournaments. I have started doing exercises to build a little more muscle and flexibility . If I can stay on this elliptical machine, I can build up some endurance as well. I even have included some light weights. I have also been paying attention to my diet, trying to eat well except that I am addicted to fried chicken.

Johnnyt, I am getting a little long in the tooth myself and often struggle to make balls on the break. Last night my ticket was pulled for a ten ball break and run contest on a ten foot table. I have changed my break cue to a 20.5 ounce, DymondWood "playing cue" and mostly these days I play on bar tables, since that is what is used in most of the tournaments around the country. I spread the balls very well but didn't make a single ball, although 3 of them came close to pockets in various parts of the table. MOST players don't make a ball on the break on this 10 foot table in this break contest. (I think the owner must be coating the object balls with a thin coat of molasses.) :D

In the last couple of years, I haven't had much luck in cashing in any of the amateur tournaments around the country but have managed to do ok locally, against other amateurs, playing 9 ball on the bar tables.

I went to Denver, CO several months ago with my son and another good friend and none of us cashed in a 128 man field that paid very deep (32) ; so I know I either have to accept the fact that my skills aren't good enough to compete on national tournaments or get my ass in gear and start doing all of the things that is necessary to get this old body in better shape and choose my equipment more carefully as well as work on my skill sets. That being said, I have decided to start exercising more, competing with other amateurs on a regular basis and try to see what if I can become more competitive.

Lately, on a bar table, I have been practicing racking the balls very carefully (tight) and the same way every time. I have been trying to hit the one ball more square and not quite as hard as I am able to hit them and that seems to be getting better results. I think technique is more important than equipment for breaking although I swear I break better with a heavier DW playing cue. I know of a young guy here in my area who breaks with a 22 ounce cue and you wouldn't want to bet against him in a break contest, so while some people may suggest that a lighter cue is the better choice, you should experiment with both to see if you perform differently. Just make sure you are racking the same. This is probably the most important factor in determining what weight you break with best.

For example, I believe that a lighter cue is harder to keep online than a heavier cue (for me). It might be in my head but that doesn't make any difference. If I can swing the heavier cue stick straighter (and more level) at a slower speed then I most likely will get better results because I will be hitting the break ball more accurately and transferring more energy to the rack.

Sorry for the long monologue but you hit a current interest of mine as well.


Oh yeah, STRETCH before you get to practicing your break. :wink:

Oh yeah, STRETCH in the morning when you get up.

Oh yeah, STRETCH during the day when you have a moment.

Oh yeah, STRETCH in the evening before you have a night-cap.

Oh yeah, I forgot, you have some experience in the medical field. :)

Good luck Johnnyt!

JoeyA
 
Thanks Joey. The heaviest cue I own is a Duffrin 23 OZ. I break better with that cue. I understand the go lighter thing, but I can't get enough speed into it W/O hurting myself. I believe I need to go a little heavier and just let the cue do most all the work. I probably shouldn't be breaking at all...but I'm a little on the stuboren side. Thanks for all the feedback...all of you. Johnnyt
 
For what its worth I use a 22oz. Orange Crush break cue at about 80% of my power. Seems to work well for me. I have seen so many players that try to break at 110% very hard to control. Stroke and don't poke.
 
I can't power break anymore because of past injuries to my shoulder. That's fine for 9 ball where all I need is to get some spread to kick the ghosts ass, but in 10 ball you have to be able to smack the rack a pretty good lick.

My question is; will a very heavy cue (25 s or more) spread the balls better than a 20 oz cue with the same weak break stroke? Johnnyt

I have no experience with shoulder injuries, but I did hurt my back a couple of years ago and I just soft broke with a 22oz cue. I was terrified of hurting myself again by making sudden movements, so I just concentrated on stroking smoothly and hitting the exact vertical and horizontal center of the cueball to get the max velocity out of the break.I thought it worked all right, for 9 ball at least. I felt that the heavier cue helped me hit more accurately and slightly harder at the same cue speed, although the second part would probably be very slight. The extra straightening of the cue path was way more significant to me. I would also like to add one more thing: A heavier cue helps me slow down my stroke, and limit jerks and twitches in the action, which is why my cue now is 20.5 oz instead of 18,7oz like it used to, even if I play on lightening fast equipment. I heard that Van Boenings cue is heavy and Earls is of course too. I think those two might be on to something with the long, heavy cues, and I'm planning to maybe try a 22 oz cue for playing. I think the last thing you need with a serious injury is a cue that makes you jerk your action or build up a lot of tension over getting enough speed. Just a thought.

I know in these threads there is always a smartass saying "Why not play 1pocket /straightpool". I thought if there was ever a chance I could hurt myself really bad breaking hard, I'd switch to those games only in a heartbeat. Not because I think those games are necessarily better, but no amount of rotation pool playing fun is worth that amount of pain to me, at least when there are other options that are just as good. If I could no longer bend low, I'd switch to nothing but carom/billiards, and I don't think I'd bee to sad about it, so long as I could still play some kind of billiard game.

Good luck to you.
 
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