Help ID this 70's cue, looks good!
- Thread starter TULIPWOOD LOVER
- Start date
a Tad?
Perhaps this is an early Tad... I'm not sure how reliable the Blue Book is, but on p781 notes, "From 1963 until 1977, Tad cues were not marked with a logo." Also, wasn't Tad in to fatter handles? His early cues were Titlist conversions... and he was known for "nice" points/miters... and his butt caps were plastic and also fairly long... but that joint... the base of the shaft has the wood tenon that mates with the base, and that seems to be significant. The Blue Book also mentions that Tad was influenced by Mosconi, who was an avid player of Rambow's cues. And, I think Rambow used this wood-tenon joining method, right? So Mosconi goes to Cali, meets up with Tad who may have just started short-splicing 4-pointers in the mid 70's ... Mosconi reveals the Rambow, and says...if you can make these cues like Rambow...... anyway, just my 2cents.
--Paul.
Perhaps this is an early Tad... I'm not sure how reliable the Blue Book is, but on p781 notes, "From 1963 until 1977, Tad cues were not marked with a logo." Also, wasn't Tad in to fatter handles? His early cues were Titlist conversions... and he was known for "nice" points/miters... and his butt caps were plastic and also fairly long... but that joint... the base of the shaft has the wood tenon that mates with the base, and that seems to be significant. The Blue Book also mentions that Tad was influenced by Mosconi, who was an avid player of Rambow's cues. And, I think Rambow used this wood-tenon joining method, right? So Mosconi goes to Cali, meets up with Tad who may have just started short-splicing 4-pointers in the mid 70's ... Mosconi reveals the Rambow, and says...if you can make these cues like Rambow...... anyway, just my 2cents.
--Paul.
All I know is I have $500 for that cue if offers fall through. Great points and good veneer work, bargain in my opinion....regardless of who made it.
somebody previously mentioned rambow. i have no idea what rambows looked like,,,,but the miters on these points look TOO DAMNED GOOD for black or stroud or most cuemakers mentioned. invariably you see thin black lines that seperate the veneers in even the best of prongs and some miters wander off center. these veneers meet right down the middle, and with virtually no seperation. are all the prongs consistant with this veneerwork?
if there's a possibilty this cue came from the midwest, particularly chicago, + plus someone mentioning rambow, + craig peterson once told me he grew up copying rambows to the point where he was doing them better than herman and that there are probably tons of "rambows" out there that are actually his,,,,,,i'm going to say it's a craig peterson....and if it is, you have a gem!!!
i am not authoritative on early petersons, but let's ask the people here most familiar with lots of older cuemakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,who made seamless veneers back then? i don't know if craig did perfect work waaay back then or not, but there are lots of pre-expensive machinery-cuemakers you could eliminate just on veneerwork alone. these are damned good veneers.
if there's a possibilty this cue came from the midwest, particularly chicago, + plus someone mentioning rambow, + craig peterson once told me he grew up copying rambows to the point where he was doing them better than herman and that there are probably tons of "rambows" out there that are actually his,,,,,,i'm going to say it's a craig peterson....and if it is, you have a gem!!!
i am not authoritative on early petersons, but let's ask the people here most familiar with lots of older cuemakers,,,,,,,,,,,,,who made seamless veneers back then? i don't know if craig did perfect work waaay back then or not, but there are lots of pre-expensive machinery-cuemakers you could eliminate just on veneerwork alone. these are damned good veneers.
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So many chioces
The list of cue makers from this era is so awesome, you know it was one of the greats, but which one? I've been emailing them one at a time to try and narrow it down. In the 70's there were not near as many cue makers, but it seems like half of them were capable of this workmanship. Out of this list who could it not be: Mcdaniel, Peterson, Rambow, Tad, Joss, Spain, Jensen, Horn, Tascarella, and just for conversation very early Scruggs. Now who can we for sure eliminate and should anyone else be added to the list. Here are a couple more joint pictures. The black ring collars are all 3/8" thick.
The list of cue makers from this era is so awesome, you know it was one of the greats, but which one? I've been emailing them one at a time to try and narrow it down. In the 70's there were not near as many cue makers, but it seems like half of them were capable of this workmanship. Out of this list who could it not be: Mcdaniel, Peterson, Rambow, Tad, Joss, Spain, Jensen, Horn, Tascarella, and just for conversation very early Scruggs. Now who can we for sure eliminate and should anyone else be added to the list. Here are a couple more joint pictures. The black ring collars are all 3/8" thick.
tad's veneers aren't this clean......even today. also, somebody can correct me, but these prongs look spliced, yes? i THINK tad inlays his prongs. victor stein said he was at tad's shop when he did the first bluebook, and saw all the routed cuts in the nose.
can you email me the other prongs? .......i think i could be right about this being a peterson.
some of the cuemakers you mention might be rather easy to verify. just get a bunch(as in more than only one) of their 70's cues, and check to see if they did veneers as clean as this cue.
can you email me the other prongs? .......i think i could be right about this being a peterson.
some of the cuemakers you mention might be rather easy to verify. just get a bunch(as in more than only one) of their 70's cues, and check to see if they did veneers as clean as this cue.
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" Is it a bad angle or, is the joint pin out of center from the collar, sure looks like it"TULIPWOOD LOVER said:
no worries, just the angle
I was trying to hold it still, and take the picture. Just got a bad angle, pin is dead center.
I was trying to hold it still, and take the picture. Just got a bad angle, pin is dead center.
Hay Matt
Mike the shaft at the joint and see if it is anywhere near .834 and then PM me.
Nick
Mike the shaft at the joint and see if it is anywhere near .834 and then PM me.
Nick
SphinxnihpS
Banned
Are the shafts different? The pitures make them look like thay may be from different cues, because the pilots look different, and the collars look like they are made from different materials. The tips and ferrules also look different.
I also swear I have seen that type of wiegth bolt before, with the hex scew that holds the bumper on to the weight bolt. I'm pretty sure that was on an old Viking or maybe a Helmstetter by Adams? Maybe you can try them. Peterson is not a bad guess either. The joint is just like his were, and the brown rubber bumper, dunno?
I also swear I have seen that type of wiegth bolt before, with the hex scew that holds the bumper on to the weight bolt. I'm pretty sure that was on an old Viking or maybe a Helmstetter by Adams? Maybe you can try them. Peterson is not a bad guess either. The joint is just like his were, and the brown rubber bumper, dunno?
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TULIPWOOD LOVER said:
I THINK YOU CAN RULE OUT TASCARELLA, RAMBOW, AND TAD. THE COLLARS AT 3/8 AREN'T WHAT PETE DOES,OR TO MY KNOWLEDGE SOMETHING HE DID. TAD TO MY KNOWLDEGE DIDN'T MAKE VENEERED SPLICED POINTS, AND WAS ONLY USING TITLISTS IN THIS TIME FRAME. I DON'T THINK HE USED OTHER SHARP SPLICED BLANKS. RAMBOW ALSO TO MY KNOWLEDGE DIDNT USE THIS STYLE BLANK UNLESS IT WAS A TITLIST. BUT WHO KNOWS, I'M AN IDIOT.
TULIPWOOD LOVER said:
You can safely rule out Rambow, Tad, Joss, Spain, and probably Tasc. Might want to add R.Tillis in there as a possibility. The real early Petersens are an enigma and almost impossible to verify. I'm still sticking to guns on a super early McDaniel. They were all modelled after the plain Bushkas. Shaft inserts even look same as ours.
Sean
I don't know who made it, but that is some of the cleanest mitered veneers I have every see. Normally at least one of the miters in a 4 veneer cue will have some glue lines in them. This points me to possibly a Petersen. Sean at CueAddicts would know. I think there is something particular with the joint collar and pilot of a Petersen that normally gives them away. I'd like to know what it is and if this cue fits that specification.
cuenut said:
Joint collar, pin, and insert is not typical of most Petersens you see, but like I said above, his early stuff is next to impossible to be certain on. Just ask Milt. Like most everybody, he probably experimented some on the joints and weight boly systems. From what I understand some have been sold as Rambows, Jensens, Bushkas, etc. Still think McDaniel's....Bill's started in the early 70s and his early point work was quite superb. From what I understand he always did his own points from the get-go. Case and point of why he should go back to that to sell more of his cues....
I am voting for a Verl Horn with the points made by Szamboti, Verl bought quite a few handles from Szamboti and it looks like his work to me.
Shafts and ferrules
Both shafts appear to be originals, but the ivory ferrule on the one shaft does not look original. First it does not look old enough and second it does not look right on the shaft. It looks like it has a taper to it or something, the tip on it is definately not original. Its old and new and quite ugly.
Both shafts appear to be originals, but the ivory ferrule on the one shaft does not look original. First it does not look old enough and second it does not look right on the shaft. It looks like it has a taper to it or something, the tip on it is definately not original. Its old and new and quite ugly.