Help me like 9 Ball

[Masayoshi]

I don't play straight pool, but I know I would be feeling considerable pressure if the rack was wide open, but by bad luck I only have 1 super tough shot, and I know my opponent could run 100 or more...I can't see how pressure would be greater in 9 ball...

Sure pressure situations come up in other games, but they are extremely sparse. In 9 ball, pressure is abig factor in just about every game at some part of the rack, except for the occasional Mickey mouse layout.

Agreed about the kicking game. Also, agree with respect to 1P that the safes may generally be hit at slower speeds, and require less accuracy (a *little*, on average), but couldn't disagree more about the level of variation. I feel most 9 ball safeties fall into just a few basic categories, even though each shot is a unique thing. But when I see some of the escape and clearance shots people come up with in 1P, it blows me away. I think the safety game in 1P is vastly more complex than 9 ball. I don't play 1P at all...this is just my impression from what I have seen.

KMRUNOUT

I would say that one pocket has even fewer categories in kicks when you get used to them and the same kicks reoccur in similar or the same position so it is much easier to adjust than in 9 ball. Also, 9 ball has a whole bunch of different types of kicks if you get creative enough. In other games they would usually be too much of a sell to go after because of more options to shoot at.

 

[catpool9]

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm serious. I get to play infrequently these days. I play maybe 3 times a month with an old friend who is a very good player.

Anyway, we go through this ritual each time we get together. A set of 8 ball to warm up, I can live with that. Then a set or two of 9 ball. The game I really can't get my head into. I can't take seriously and I can't devote any concentration to it.

Then we play our straight pool games, and end the day long outing with some one pocket.

The thing is, I'd like to like 9 ball, but I can't. Anyone out there share this strange aversion to 9 ball.

Is there a shrink in the house .... LOL. Why can't I like this damned game?

You have to JAZZ the game up some, your like the rest of us trying to play Perfect 9-Ball like Pro's, all they do is play run out shape's, little movement of the cue ball, ect.. very boring to watch at times.

What you need to do is play 9-Ball like you did when you were first learning the game, shooting alot of combinations and banks because you were out of line all the time,......so just start playing for the shapes on combo's and playing shapes for some straight banks and all of a sudden it gets fun again and you will be amazied at how much easier the game feels to you.


David Harcrow

 

[SJDinPHX]

It depends on where you are at in pool.
14:1 players typically like one pocket, can tolerate 8-ball, and despise 9-ball.
Bar league players play 8-ball & 9-ball all the time , so they must enjoy it.
Money games are 9-ball, one pocket, and Golf.

I can't imagine anyone disliking 9-ball.
Did you know that all pool games at some point were derived from bar box 9-ball?

Dear Sir,

I beg to differ, Bar boxes have only even been in existence, since the mid-50's...9 ball, is a fairly modern take off (shortened for gambling)..on straight rotation. Whereas 14.1 has been around forever,..but is fading fast.

One Pocket came along in the late 30's, and in 1961, the Jansco's chose it for their first tournament...
see >>>>http://www.onepocket.org/
It has long been, the game of choice, for high stakes gambling among high level player's who don't care for a "paint by numbers" somewhat boring game, like 9 ball. (which was further ruined by the advent of 'Texas Express'.)

As for myself, I would rather play 8 ball, or rotation, than 9 ball, but my first love..is one pocket...Best game on a pool table, bar none...JMO

SJD

 

[dr9ball]

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm serious. I get to play infrequently these days. I play maybe 3 times a month with an old friend who is a very good player.

Anyway, we go through this ritual each time we get together. A set of 8 ball to warm up, I can live with that. Then a set or two of 9 ball. The game I really can't get my head into. I can't take seriously and I can't devote any concentration to it.

Then we play our straight pool games, and end the day long outing with some one pocket.

The thing is, I'd like to like 9 ball, but I can't. Anyone out there share this strange aversion to 9 ball.

Is there a shrink in the house .... LOL. Why can't I like this damned game?

You don't have to like the game. There are other games. If you like them more play them and don't worry about 9 ball. It will still be around when and IF you feel like playing it.

 

[sfleinen]

There are exactly two things I really like about nine ball:

1) the two-way shot, a shot having both a defensive and offensive element to it, the shot rquiring more planning and imagination thn any other shot.

2) the fact that superior billiard knowledge is frequently required in offense, defense, and in kicking.

Unfortunately, there are those who are trying to write the two-way shot out of the game by allowing an incoming player to decline the position if they please after a two-way shot. Once the two-way shot is eliminated in nine ball, straight pool and one-pocket are far more interesting and far more worthy of your attention.

In short, it's not critical that you learn to love nine ball, a game evolving into something having fewer dimensions.

Stu:

The above-bolded is not correct. I don't see anyone trying to modify 9-ball in this manner. 10-ball, yes. But 9-ball? No. 10-ball is intended by the WPA to be the professional alternative to 9-ball, addressing all the deficiencies of 9-ball in one fell swoop, as told by the pros (i.e. slop, the inherent problems with diamond-shaped rack -- wired wing balls, soft breaks, etc.). Other than the rack issues with 9-ball, I don't see anyone trying to "unbolt" Texas Express from it. 10-ball, yes (10-ball played T.E. is an abomination of a game that was intended to be completely different from the start). But 9-ball? No.

And keeping the two games different -- 9-ball as T.E., and 10-ball as call-shot / elimination of the issues as told by the pros -- is a GREAT thing. It offers the player CHOICE of game to play.

CHOICE is always a great thing, right?

-Sean

 

[SJDinPHX]

And keeping the two games different -- 9-ball as T.E., and 10-ball as call-shot / elimination of the issues as told by the pros -- is a GREAT thing. It offers the player CHOICE of game to play.

CHOICE is always a great thing, right?

-Sean

Sean,

I guess thats why they have Baskin-Robbins...IMO, 9ball and 10ball, are very similar now, in that you either have a safety battle, or a run out...Usually, if two top level players (close to even in skill) are competing, the best 'breaker' now usually wins. Also, we now have, break in the box, 3 balls above the headstring, 9 or 10 ball don't count on the break, rack 9 on the spot, etc.

In trying to take all the 'luck' element out of the game, IMO they have only suceeded in desensitising it, and have made it a confusing, (for the newbie spectators) and boring game to watch.

If you HAVE to play 9 or 10 ball, at least try and set the rules where there is SOME excitement in the game...One Pocket may never be a "made for TV" game, but if you know the game, it can be VERY exciting to watch... And, the basic rules have not changed in 75 years

...Maybe thats why most of the 'Big Boy's' prefer to play it, for the big $$$$..:wink:

 

[sfleinen]

Sean,

I guess thats why they have Baskin-Robbins...IMO, 9ball and 10ball, are very similar now, in that you either have a safety battle, or a run out...Usually, if two top level players (close to even in skill) are competing, the best 'breaker' now usually wins.

In trying to take all the 'luck' element out of the game, IMO they have only suceeded in desensitising it, and have made it a confusing, (for the newbie spectators) and boring game to watch.

If you HAVE to play 9 or 10 ball, at least quit trying to set the rules where there is SOME excitement in the game...One Pocket may never be a "made for TV" game, but if you know the game, it can be very exciting to watch... and the basic rules have not changed in 75 years. Maybe thats why the 'Big Boy's' prefer to play it for the big $$$$..:wink:

Dick:

You don't have to sell me on One Pocket -- take a look at my avatar comment.

The point is, I don't think one should throw the baby out with the bath water "just because both 9- and 10-ball are rotation games." There should be a difference in rules -- one should remain the classic T.E. rules (9-ball), and the other should be at least a good offering to address the pros' concerns about 9-ball. But the attempts to make both games the same with T.E. does both an injustice -- if both are the same, then what is the selection criteria for a tournament? What "value-add" does one game offer over the other? I agree with you that on the pro level, it's either a safety battle or a run-out. The difference being one game will be more satisfying for the pros, and offer less complaints. And, in 10-ball, you don't see the "racking gymnastics" or BandAids being applied to the rules as you do in 9-ball.

I also agree that once one gets beyond the pool "color by numbers" thing, one graduates into more "thinking people" games like 14.1 or One Pocket. No convincing needed here!

-Sean

 

[SJDinPHX]

Dick:

You don't have to sell me on One Pocket -- take a look at my avatar comment.

The point is, I don't think one should throw the baby out with the bath water "just because both 9- and 10-ball are rotation games." There should be a difference in rules -- one should remain the classic T.E. rules (9-ball), and the other should be at least a good offering to address the pros' concerns about 9-ball. But the attempts to make both games the same with T.E. does both an injustice -- if both are the same, then what is the selection criteria for a tournament? What "value-add" does one game offer over the other? I agree with you that on the pro level, it's either a safety battle or a run-out. The difference being one game will be more satisfying for the pros, and offer less complaints. And, in 10-ball, you don't see the "racking gymnastics" or BandAids being applied to the rules as you do in 9-ball.

I also agree that once one gets beyond the pool "color by numbers" thing, one graduates into more "thinking people" games like 14.1 or One Pocket. No convincing needed here!

-Sean

Good response Sean, points well taken...Now, could I just get you to put 'one pocket' FIRST, in your avatar quote ?
....After all, 14.1 has been dead since the 40's.. JK (not)

 

[Donny Lutz]

Approach to the game?

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm serious. I get to play infrequently these days. I play maybe 3 times a month with an old friend who is a very good player.

Anyway, we go through this ritual each time we get together. A set of 8 ball to warm up, I can live with that. Then a set or two of 9 ball. The game I really can't get my head into. I can't take seriously and I can't devote any concentration to it.

Then we play our straight pool games, and end the day long outing with some one pocket.

The thing is, I'd like to like 9 ball, but I can't. Anyone out there share this strange aversion to 9 ball.

Is there a shrink in the house .... LOL. Why can't I like this damned game?

By any chance are you losing more at 9-ball than at the other games?
If so, but regardless, there is a very basic diffference in 9-ball and 8-ball that is crucial to success. It has to do with "pocket speed".

There are two basics kinds of pocket speed. The one we learn first when we take a lesson, is: The speed that gives the object ball the best chance of entering a pocket. Too hard increases the chance of rattling the ball; too slow increases the chance of a roll-off. The ideal speed for pocketing a ball is: just hard enough to prevent the OB from rolling off.

But "pocket speed" in 8-ball is another proposition. In 8-ball, when you miss, you want to leave the OB close to the pocket (for both offensive and defensive reasons), so you will often need to use LESS than "pocket speed". This is sometimes called, "8-ball pocket speed", which can be confusing. In 9-ball, when you miss, you DO NOT want to leave the OB close to a pocket, so you sometimes need to use more than ideal "pocket speed" as defined above. You want to "lay up" balls in 8-ball, and not in 9-ball, so you need to be aware of this and adjust your speed accordingly. You may run fewer tables with this approach, but you'll win more games.

By adding this tidbit of knowledge to your game you will quite likely win more often, and perhaps enjoy 9-ball a little more.

Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

 

[3andstop]

By any chance are you losing more at 9-ball than at the other games?

Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

No, I don't even get out to play anymore. As I mentioned, I play maybe 3 or 4 at the very most, times a month. Those times are in my basement with old pool friends from 40 yrs ago. When we get together we don't gamble. We don't need to gamble. Our games are intense and the desire to win is strong.

Its the 9 ball segment of our time playing that I just can't take seriously. I know it must be some kind of mental block. Maybe I need a hypnotist to whack me over the head with a crystal ball or something.

To me, 9 ball vs straight pool or 1 pkt is like the difference between playing serious chess regarding straight pool or 1hole, or maybe backgammon or checkers when referring to 9 ball. Backgammon or checkers are fine games to play if those are the only boards you have, but why play them when you have the full chess set sitting there for you, and you are only able to play occasionally?

That kind of describes my convoluted thoughts on 9 ball.

When I started this thread I was sort of hoping a few others were in the same boat and found the secret to liking this silly game. :shrug: I'm certainly capable of playing it well, I just can't make myself care to.

Who knows maybe this virtual couch session is the beginning to my therapy. LOL.

 

[sjm]

Stu:

The above-bolded is not correct. I don't see anyone trying to modify 9-ball in this manner. 10-ball, yes. But 9-ball? No. 10-ball is intended by the WPA to be the professional alternative to 9-ball, addressing all the deficiencies of 9-ball in one fell swoop, as told by the pros (i.e. slop, the inherent problems with diamond-shaped rack -- wired wing balls, soft breaks, etc.). Other than the rack issues with 9-ball, I don't see anyone trying to "unbolt" Texas Express from it. 10-ball, yes (10-ball played T.E. is an abomination of a game that was intended to be completely different from the start). But 9-ball? No.

And keeping the two games different -- 9-ball as T.E., and 10-ball as call-shot / elimination of the issues as told by the pros -- is a GREAT thing. It offers the player CHOICE of game to play.

CHOICE is always a great thing, right?

-Sean

Gotcha and thanks, Sean. My mistake. Yes, it is ten ball that is being dumbed down to eliminate the two-way shot, the most creative of all possible shots in the game. And, yes, that's an abomination! Why should the most creative shot in the game be in the sole possession of amateurs?

Also, your history is in error. The first switch to ten ball occurred when the PBT, the most prestigious professional pool tour in the world by far at the time, swithced to ten ball for all of its events in the 1999 season, nearly a decade before anyone thought about playing it with anything but Texas Express rules. Ten ball was not, as you suggest, intended to be completely different from nine ball from the start and, even today, it is played Texas Express style as often as not, as it will be next month at Derby City, assuming the same format as in January, 2011. The switch to ten ball in 1999 was only in response to those that felt that the nine ball break had become too easy. Ironically, Shane Van Boening has a bigger breaking advantage over his fellow competitiors than any player had at any time in the nine ball area.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Losing?

No, I don't even get out to play anymore. As I mentioned, I play maybe 3 or 4 at the very most, times a month. Those times are in my basement with old pool friends from 40 yrs ago. When we get together we don't gamble. We don't need to gamble. Our games are intense and the desire to win is strong.

Its the 9 ball segment of our time playing that I just can't take seriously. I know it must be some kind of mental block. Maybe I need a hypnotist to whack me over the head with a crystal ball or something.

To me, 9 ball vs straight pool or 1 pkt is like the difference between playing serious chess regarding straight pool or 1hole, or maybe backgammon or checkers when referring to 9 ball. Backgammon or checkers are fine games to play if those are the only boards you have, but why play them when you have the full chess set sitting there for you, and you are only able to play occasionally?

That kind of describes my convoluted thoughts on 9 ball.

When I started this thread I was sort of hoping a few others were in the same boat and found the secret to liking this silly game. :shrug: I'm certainly capable of playing it well, I just can't make myself care to.

Who knows maybe this virtual couch session is the beginning to my therapy. LOL.

When I said, "losing", I didn't mean money. I meant games. I was suggesting that a different APPROACH to the game might help, and the simple strategy concept I described might make 9-ball more fun. You say your desire to win is strong. I tried to show you a simple way to win more at 9-ball; I would think that if you're a fan of chess, you like strategic pool play. Am I wrong? Is your "mental block" because you don't understand 9-ball strategy? Is it because most folks play slop 9-ball? Is it because there are usually easier shots in 8-ball?
Why's it so important to have all fifteen balls on the table? There are many games that require less than fifteen balls; they are pool too!

 

[tedkaufman]

I grew up playing straight pool and it is still, by far, my favorite game. I do enjoy 8-ball and one pocket, too. But, like you, I never cared much for 9-ball. However, that is all relative. I LOVE POOL! So any game is still pool.

I approach 9-ball as a game of lines, instead of spots like straight pool, one hole and 8-ball require. So, instead of seeking patterns--stop, stop, stop, as in straight pool--I look for lines as dividers on the table. What I'm trying to achieve is position zones, in three ball patterns, by staying on the right side of the lines. This, for me, makes the game interesting and engages my gear-head geometric fascination. I also enjoy that 9-ball requires more frequent long, tough shots than we typically see in straight pool, so it strengthens your overall shotmaking, which might mean the difference between making a saver that keeps a good run going. It also requires breakouts of trouble balls, which is another tune -up skill for straight pool.

So, while I agree that the basics of 9-ball--shoot by numbers--isn't appealing on the surface, there are plenty of things to absorb yourself with to make it 9-ball plenty interesting.

 

[Bambu]

Ok, this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm serious. I get to play infrequently these days. I play maybe 3 times a month with an old friend who is a very good player.

Anyway, we go through this ritual each time we get together. A set of 8 ball to warm up, I can live with that. Then a set or two of 9 ball. The game I really can't get my head into. I can't take seriously and I can't devote any concentration to it.

Then we play our straight pool games, and end the day long outing with some one pocket.

The thing is, I'd like to like 9 ball, but I can't. Anyone out there share this strange aversion to 9 ball.

Is there a shrink in the house .... LOL. Why can't I like this damned game?

I've seen some really good straight pool players stink the house up playing 9 ball. Guys that can run 100 balls, suddenly cant run a rack. Its a different game that requires a different stroke, and a different defensive skill set. Sure you can pocket, but most of your straight pool strategy goes out the window. It might take a good straight pool or 1 pocket player 2 years to even out his 9 ball skills. Same thing happens when 9 ballers attempt straight pool, things get ugly.

 

[cheeseroller]

9 ball

usually people that can't stand 9 ball are people that can't run out. they figure it's all luck because they run out to the 7 then miss and the other guy wins. they figure he got lucky. the truth is the guy that cna't get out just can't get out

9 ball is about finishing. It punishes you when you don't do what you are suppose to do, which is clear the table.

I hear guys complain that they did all the work by running to the 8 and then miss and then the other guy wins by just making two balls. Well, you shouldn't have missed!! You should have maintained your focus and got the job done.

 

[cuesblues]

Dear Sir,

I beg to differ, Bar boxes have only even been in existence, since the mid-50's...9 ball, is a fairly modern take off (shortened for gambling)..on straight rotation. Whereas 14.1 has been around forever,..but is fading fast.

One Pocket came along in the late 30's, and in 1961, the Jansco's chose it for their first tournament...
see >>>>http://www.onepocket.org/
It has long been, the game of choice, for high stakes gambling among high level player's who don't care for a "paint by numbers" somewhat boring game, like 9 ball. (which was further ruined by the advent of 'Texas Express'.)

As for myself, I would rather play 8 ball, or rotation, than 9 ball, but my first love..is one pocket...Best game on a pool table, bar none...JMO

SJD

I been around pool since the 60's, first job 1967 / 15yrs. old was at Varsity 8-Ball near Denver University.
I took a 30+ year layoff until 2002, and had never heard of Texas Express rules, or even modified Texas Express rules.
However, after discussing this many times with 3-friends who have 100-200 ball runs in 14:1, we agree that all pool games were derived from bar box 9-ball.
Bumper pool contributed greatly prior to Texas Express, but I wouldn't kinow because I need someone to help me like bumper pool...

Peace
Ted

 

[The Chinchilla]

Dear Sir,

I beg to differ, Bar boxes have only even been in existence, since the mid-50's...9 ball, is a fairly modern take off (shortened for gambling)..on straight rotation. Whereas 14.1 has been around forever,..but is fading fast.

One Pocket came along in the late 30's, and in 1961, the Jansco's chose it for their first tournament...
see >>>>http://www.onepocket.org/
It has long been, the game of choice, for high stakes gambling among high level player's who don't care for a "paint by numbers" somewhat boring game, like 9 ball. (which was further ruined by the advent of 'Texas Express'.)

As for myself, I would rather play 8 ball, or rotation, than 9 ball, but my first love..is one pocket...Best game on a pool table, bar none...JMO

SJD

From my understanding, this is a very accurate post. Yet, I see there is some contention from Ted.

Anyway, nice post.... i'm sure JB Cases will be along any time now to try and run you off.

Congrats on the induction btw

 

[pooln8r]

Like Sean, I also love 14.1, 8ball,full rack rotation and have a growing appreciation for 1p but I still feel there's something about 9 ball that I still enjoy.

A few things I like about the game...

1) Compared to other games 9 ball has an empty table to roll that cue ball around. There can be a lot of ball movement without bumping into other balls and depending on the layout can really show someone's shot making ability as well as their full stroke capabilities.

2)Like reading the rack in 14.1, 9 ball has reading a ride on the nine and solving problems anywhere on the table unlike some other games where you tend to be closer to your work and or problems. This ball movement almost makes 9 ball at times a bit like 3 cushion. I find a lot of three cushion shots that apply to 9. So with the paint by numbers way of viewing this game you end up missing out on the creativity that can come into play. My favorite and first ever tournament win came from a three rail shot with the one and 9 side by side in the side pocket. I shot at the one in the side, had the cue ball run short rail, long rail, short rail and it nailed the 9 on the trip back to the side pocket. The best part about the win was that this was a call shot 9, ball in hand behind the head string tournament.

3)9 ball is like two part target practice- Hit the shot and hit the position right after or hit the object ball and nail the safety location. I love the two way shot, as you get to not only be aggressive with making the ball but leave yourself a way out if that play doesn't work out. I know this isn't exclusive to rotation games like 9ball but it sure comes up more often.

In a nutshell, I guess I like 9b, while the choice of which ball to hit is extremely limited at least what you choose to do can be wide open. Let your stroke out and watch that white orb roll:thumbup:

I like David Harcrow's take on the game.

You have to JAZZ the game up some, your like the rest of us trying to play Perfect 9-Ball like Pro's, all they do is play run out shape's, little movement of the cue ball, ect.. very boring to watch at times.

What you need to do is play 9-Ball like you did when you were first learning the game, shooting alot of combinations and banks because you were out of line all the time,......so just start playing for the shapes on combo's and playing shapes for some straight banks and all of a sudden it gets fun again and you will be amazied at how much easier the game feels to you.


David Harcrow

My take on Deadstroke
IMHO getting into dead stroke for 9 is no different than any other game. If you're going to get there in that serene place it's going to come from your concentration level not the layout or number of the balls on the table. The only difference being from doing it in 14.1 is that you may have to use multiple games to get there if it takes you more than 9 shots. I suggest maybe before you play 9, you play your friend some straight if that gets you into deadstroke and then maybe 9 will be more interesting with that already in place.

Peace and good shooting to you...
Kevin

 

[BasementDweller]

When it comes to people that don't like 9 ball -- 9 guys out of 10 don't like it because they don't play it as well as they think they play 8 ball. I've heard the color by numbers criticism and I understand that perspective, but the bottom line is you have to be able to execute more difficult shots in 9 ball (& 10 ball) than you do in 8 ball and 14.1. I'll grant you that you don't have to control the cue ball as precisely, but you do have to understand all the different 2, 3, & 4 rail tracks much more intimately (for lack of a better word). If you wanted to compare 14.1 to 9 ball - I think you could argue that 14.1 is all about the cue ball, whereas, 9 ball is more of a 50/50 split between pocketing skill and cue ball control.

To me, if want to know how you stack up against the best players in the world you have to play 9 & 10 ball.

 

[The Chinchilla]

I think my fan quote i've heard on this topic is "you've got to have balls to be able to play good nine ball." I think there is a lot of truth to that.