Help with bottom english

jed1894

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe you guys can help me with this.....my bottom english has just about vanished. I used to be able to back up the ball a full table and a little more. I've never been a strong bottom english hitter, but good enough to get by. However, within the last six months, I've only been able to back up the ball about 2-3 feet. Sometimes it just stops when I think I'm really putting a lot of bottom on it. I don't know what I'm doing now, but I need some suggestions/advice. Any and all help is appreciated.

I though about videotaping myself, but even if I'm not following through all the way, I should be able to back up the ball even with a jab shot. The interesting thing is that I can follow the ball really well. Left and right english are no problem either.

Things I've done to try to fix:
Checked follow-through--seems okay, but hard to tell when playing alone.
Tried every stick I have with different tips on each.
Changed the bridge a little.
Changed grip.

Equipment:
8 foot Valley bar table with Sim. 860 cloth.
Assorted cues (Shurtz, Jacoby, McDermott, Meucci, Action, Dufferin).
Dotted cue ball (TV kind).
Master/Silver cup chalk.

thanks, JED
 
I forgot to add that I usually use cheap balls (Wal-mart version) to practice with since most of my friends usually fly balls off the table. I have a set of Super Aramith balls, but I've only shot with them one time and did not try a lot of english. But, I don't see how the cheap balls would affect a good CB, or would it?
 
You probably allready know this but stay down and follow through. Also, think smooth and keep a loose wrist and visualize how far you want the ball to come back. Good Luck
 
The draw shot is a stroke shot. You are hitting the ball low and in a particular way: with a follow-through straight through the ball. In order to do this, your cue has to be on a low level plane, and you need to have a straight stroke. Some players who think they are following through make the mistake of hitting the cueball at a bad angle and then simply pushing the cue forward, but not stroking straight through the ball with a low and level cue. The following diagram is the path of the cue through the cueball. This bad stroke won't get the cueball to draw well, even if you hit it low:

cb1.jpg


A low and level cue allows a protracted follow-through on the stroke. This low, level stroke will get the cueball to draw well:
cb2.jpg

A bad stroke is any stroke that is not delivering a straight cue through the ball in this manner. This can include elevating, applying unintentional english, or stroking off the true line of the shot, and is frequently the result of poor fundamentals.
 
jed1894 said:
Maybe you guys can help me with this.....my bottom english has just about vanished. I used to be able to back up the ball a full table and a little more. I've never been a strong bottom english hitter, but good enough to get by. However, within the last six months, I've only been able to back up the ball about 2-3 feet. Sometimes it just stops when I think I'm really putting a lot of bottom on it. I don't know what I'm doing now, but I need some suggestions/advice. Any and all help is appreciated.

I though about videotaping myself, but even if I'm not following through all the way, I should be able to back up the ball even with a jab shot. The interesting thing is that I can follow the ball really well. Left and right english are no problem either.

Things I've done to try to fix:
Checked follow-through--seems okay, but hard to tell when playing alone.
Tried every stick I have with different tips on each.
Changed the bridge a little.
Changed grip.

Equipment:
8 foot Valley bar table with Sim. 860 cloth.
Assorted cues (Shurtz, Jacoby, McDermott, Meucci, Action, Dufferin).
Dotted cue ball (TV kind).
Master/Silver cup chalk.

thanks, JED
Click to expand...

Did you try hitting the CB lower?

Ok, silly question....so, have you been miscuing any shots hitting under the CB when trying to draw? I suspect not. Usually the problem for such a slump is that the player is dropping the back arm during the stroke, hence lifting the tip such that it hits the CB higher than is intended.

Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
Usually the problem for such a slump is that the player is dropping the back arm during the stroke, hence lifting the tip such that it hits the CB higher than is intended.

Colin
Click to expand...

That was exactly my first thought. Try loosening your grip hand slightly, making sure your cue is level, hit the cue ball as low as possible, and of course follow through.

Best I can do....

Jim
 
u basically need a change in mindset as well - always remember to hit really low on the cue ball, and don't worry about smacking the ball a million miles an hour. just hit it low, and with a LEVEL cue.
 
I was taught to go into a training session and try to miscue using draw. This way you are really forcing yourself to see just how low you really can go. I was surprised at the results. Perhaps you will be also.

Cheers.:)
 
I'll agree with keeping the cue level.Its pretty key for a good draw shot.
Make sure you are chalked up well as well...that gives the tip the traction needed to facilitate spin.

One of the things that I suggest to people who ask about draw tips (it happens to me quite a bit because I shoot it rather well) is try bridging closer to the cue ball and move your back hand in to where its uncomfortably close then back it up just a few inches.This makes the whole shot "smaller" and really allows for effortless,unconscience follow through.For players who are faily new (miss as much as they make) the above suggestion greatly improves accuracy as well.Less room for error in the stoke if you will and as mentioned,draw shots are stoke shots.Jabs at the cue will bring less the steller results every time.

I hope everyone will please disagree with the above suggestion if they see the logic as flawed.Its not somthing I have read or been taught,just something I have come to realize over the years.If its lunacy let me know lol....But I have seen it turn stop shots into draw shots once a person gets the feel of a more "compact" stoke.

Best of luck.
 
jed1894 said:
...I've never been a strong bottom english hitter, but good enough to get by. However, within the last six months, I've only been able to back up the ball about 2-3 feet. Sometimes it just stops when I think I'm really putting a lot of bottom on it. I don't know what I'm doing now, but I need some suggestions/advice. Any and all help is appreciated.
...
Click to expand...
Use a striped ball for the cueball with the stripe horizontal. If the stripe is 1/2 ball in width, you should be able to hit and leave a chalk mark right at the edge of the stripe, or very close without miscuing, To check the width of the stripe, freeze it against two other balls and make sure its edges run through the contact points as below:

stripe.jpg


I experienced something similar and when using this test I found that I was making contact only about an eigth inch below center, despite aiming so low I should have been miscuing. It turned out that I was gripping the cue too tightly and lifting it up off my open bridge.

The advice the other posters have given should help if you are in fact hitting too high, which is almost certainly the case. As Colin alluded to, you should be miscuing every so often when you're really trying to push the limits.

If you are hitting low with good cue speed and still not getting much draw, then you're violating the laws of physics and should stop that immediately! :)

Jim
 
Thanks for all the replies.....Tonight I'm going to try all and see how the results go. By-the-way, I do miscue and jump the CB when I try to get real low.

thanks again. JED
 
I assume you're talking draw stroke here. I never heard the term "bottom english" 'til I moved to South Carolilna, and I've been playing for a LONG time. If you are referring to draw, you've got some good advice above. For me, it's been a matter of simply keeping the cue level, stroking straight, hitting the cue ball low enough, and sometimes moving my bridge hand closer to the cue ball. Being closer to the cue ball seems to allow me to shoot draw with a somewhat softer, more pricise stroke than with a normal bridge length. Good luck.
 
Sounds to me like you're just not contacting the cue ball where you are cuing when addressing.

Just pay extra attention to making contact at your desired point, and I bet most of your problems will disappear (assuming you stroke well)
 
the best way

The best way to find out is to video yourself and take a look. I'm betting you have started dropping your shoulder into the shot and therefore not hitting as low as thought. But video is the best way to tell. Jerry
 
I would have to agree that the problem is probably the level of your cue. Often times when trying to apply draw people hit down on the cue ball when in actuality the best remedy is to get as level with the cue as low as you can. Consentrate on the bridge hand and the follow through. And most importantly make sure that you are making every shot with all consentration on the shot itself or else all of these ideas will be useless to you. in order to make a good shot you must know if the shot you hit was good. By this I mean through my long ramble that you must watch the shot consentrate on the hit and the follow through and feel the hit then I believe you will see the results you are looking for.

Also if you want a visual aid of how your draw is doing practice hitting a stripe ball as a cue ball and paying attention to the stripes rotation.

Good Luck,

Michael Kendall
 
jed1894 said:
Thanks for all the replies.....Tonight I'm going to try all and see how the results go. By-the-way, I do miscue and jump the CB when I try to get real low.

thanks again. JED
Click to expand...

I do both of your problems, too. What I discovered was I was lifting my SHOULDER just as I stroked and this raised the butt so I miscued. Then I became fearful of miscueing, so I began to aim higher and hit harder. Pretty soon, I had lost my draw shot.

So, I focus on placing my stroking shoulder in the correct position during the practice strokes and keeping it there during the shot. When I get out of whack, I go to the practice table and use this technique to get back into shape.

I don't know if this is your problem or not, but it could be. fwiw.

Jeff Livingston
 
A very smooth acceleration is important as well... start slowly and build your cue speed during your stroke... making sure that you follow-through completely.

Don't poke... stroke!!
 
jed1894 said:
Maybe you guys can help me with this.....my bottom english has just about vanished. ...
Click to expand...
From the description, you're not hitting the cue ball where you intend, as many others have pointed out. You can tell where you hit the ball by looking for the chalk spot. Use a stripe for the cue ball as already suggested.

Some of the other advice may help but is technically wrong. It is not necessary to follow through. It is not necessary to have a level stick. It is not necessary to elevate some. It is not necessary to have a straight stroke. Or to hit where you aim. Or to have a hard/soft thick/thin Moori/Elk Master tip. Or to accelerate smoothly.

What is really required to get a lot of back spin on the cue ball is simple: The tip has to hit the cue ball well below center and the stick has to be moving quickly. That's all that's required. The hard part is to do that consistently. Some of the suggestions above will help with the consistency, but they are not really required for draw.

One other thing is required, and that's that you don't miscue. Chalk helps with that.

Rather than continue to be frustrated with this -- if your experiment tonight doesn't work -- maybe you should get someone to help diagnose your problem in person.
 
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