Here's why pool is dying....

[CocoboloCowboy]

Poker is to blame for pool's decline?!

7 or 8 years ago almost every bar in the country was running some sort of texas holdem thing every week (sometimes 3 or 4 times a week)....Now?

Still is going on in the Valley of the Sun. Texas toldem tournaments in some of the bar, they paly for point, and point or chop can be cash for prizes like on the Coney Island boardwalk. But most of the Poker Players did not play Pool, so it is another revenue stream for the Bar Owner.

 

[ElKabong]

Well the writing on the wall regarding kids playing pool has been there so long it's fading. Kids just will not put down the GD cell phone long enough to do or learn anything! I have 2 teenagers in my home and just can't get them to play, even though I have tables at my home. They'd rather play computer games than take up the game.

What kills me is there are still alot of players around here, but they are petrified to improve or match up with anybody. We used to have 50 player plus weekly events. They stopped player auctions a few years back, that killed tournaments, just not as fun and payouts stink.

The kid tourney was back in the early to mid 90's.
It would definitely be a tough sell now.
Hell, we used to have 6 little league baseball teams in my town.
Now, getting 2 is tough, and you have to travel to play other teams from other leageus just to fill a schedule.

 

[Mitchxout]

The kid tourney was back in the early to mid 90's.
It would definitely be a tough sell now.
Hell, we used to have 6 little league baseball teams in my town.
Now, getting 2 is tough, and you have to travel to play other teams from other leageus just to fill a schedule.

So it's not just pool then? The world is becoming more virtual, to the detriment of kids I'm afraid.

 

[Cdryden]

No im not high :smile:
As i stated, things Are different here in Norway.
But i do Work as a mixologist and the connection between alcohol, sex and drugs is pretty obvious to me.
Here in Norway we pay around $12/hour per person to rent the table and people often only have a beer or a soda while they are playing.
English is not my native language, so i apologise if i made a poor sentence or two.
Anyways it was the fact that people are playing for money that i think many people have problems with and hence they stay away from pool halls all together, even though they like the game.

I think I understand what you are getting at here. New players dont want to feel like prey and that is exactly how they look at the better players, as predators.
Unfortunately pool carries that negative stigma with it. People seldom get past that stigma to see that there is allot more to pool than just gambling or hustling (yes there is a difference). To me gambling is good for the sport, hustling is not.

The OP failed to make the connection. Pool isn't dying, gambling at pool however has seen better days.

 

[Scott Lee]

Dan...I agree with you. Pool is not dying. There are 400,000 diehard sanctioned league players. There are another 2-3 MILLION local league players, that only play in their local bar league. Finding a way to tap into those millions of "local league" players, in small towns all across the country, is what will eventually raise the awareness, and maybe even make it possible for pool to be on tv regularly. The sanctioned league players (APA, BCAPL, VNEA, TAP etc) are not enough. There has been essentially the same number of sanctioned league players for the past decade (give or take 50,000), and nothing has changed. I agree that nationwide casinos may be taking some of the gambling away from the game, but it hasn't affected the overall number of players, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I do not think pool is dying. I see people playing in every place that has a table. The money is there for the elite few that have supernatural ability. Like the old west gunslinger with a rep for being the fastest.....someone will always challenge those at the top. For the average Joe, you're lucky to win enough to pay your tab at the end of an evening. The number of folks playing pool for enjoyment and not for cash may be in a state of flux, but I have no problem finding someone to play anytime day or night. Gambling on pool is certainly on the decline, unless as stated before, you are among the elite, but pool players abound and those that simply enjoy playing for the sake of enjoyment have no end of opportunities to do so...JMHO......Dan

 

[Danktrees]

I have told a number of guys that the very worst game they could match up in the pool room would offer them far better odds than any game in the casino. But... there they go.


Lou Figueroa

how did u come to that conclusion? most table games at a casino are pretty even with the house only having a slight advantage. like blackjack for example the house edge is less than 1% if u're using basic strategy. guys just start doing stupid things tho and go off for lots of money. but if they stuck to basic strategy they wouldnt be giving up that much of an advantage. i've seen pool matches that have been way worse. from all the games i've looked at the house does not have more than 5% advantage in any of them if players play the game properly. if anything u lose a little on the vig but thats the same as losing money on paying for the table so its not so bad.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Dan...I agree with you. Pool is not dying. There are 400,000 diehard sanctioned league players. There are another 2-3 MILLION local league players, that only play in their local bar league. Finding a way to tap into those millions of "local league" players, in small towns all across the country, is what will eventually raise the awareness, and maybe even make it possible for pool to be on tv regularly. The sanctioned league players (APA, BCAPL, VNEA, TAP etc) are not enough. There has been essentially the same number of sanctioned league players for the past decade (give or take 50,000), and nothing has changed. I agree that nationwide casinos may be taking some of the gambling away from the game, but it hasn't affected the overall number of players, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, I agree with you 100% and it's something I have been saying here for some time. We must look within the game first, there is a huge untapped audience out there of League Players we need to get more involved. It's sad, but I believe if you asked 50 of them to name a few of the top players in the US today the vast majority would not be able too. If we cannot tap this resource from within, how can we hope to move forward or even stand still where we are today?

The real crux of the matter is how to do that? We have to get them involved with the Pro's somehow. We have to get them to start watching Pool on streams and pushing to have airtime on TV. I think we all know that this will not happen because they are asked too, or out of the goodness of their hearts. They need to be enticed in, they need to feel they will possibly get something out of it, whatever that maybe. I have put forward several ideas previously but we need one of 'the organisations' to step up and take a chance, the market is huge!


Paul

 

[Island Drive]

Went to a local room last night.
6 nice Diamond's, few people playing.
One guy might play some $20 sets if I give up the lock....
Funsies 1P going on, no action, can't even get on the table.
Went downstairs since Monday is 1/2 No Limit Hold Em night, won $260 in like 2 hours and was never even close to losing money. Playing ultra tight and getting paid everytime I made a hand.
Any of these guys that are dumping big money into the poker room, wouldn't play in a $1 ball ring game if you held a gun to their head!

Pool...talent required to win...you know if you can play or not!

Poker... no talent required to win a big pot, talent required to win long-term, everyone THINKS they can play!

As I see it your right and wrong, it's the ebb and flow of our society as it evolves.

Pool will go away from the USA as soon as swimming pools dry up.

The lust for our game is now taken hold elsewhere, once they create a viable product and it becomes available here, then our game will take hold from the pros down, not from the bottom up. We will then create the great american Knock Off pool tour that will rival the asian dominance. Ironically its the asians that will lead us back to the POOL, they will figure out How to make it work. Our societal negativity is all that's holding us back.

 

[Kim Bye]

I think I understand what you are getting at here. New players dont want to feel like prey and that is exactly how they look at the better players, as predators.
Unfortunately pool carries that negative stigma with it. People seldom get past that stigma to see that there is allot more to pool than just gambling or hustling (yes there is a difference). To me gambling is good for the sport, hustling is not.

The OP failed to make the connection. Pool isn't dying, gambling at pool however has seen better days.

Thanks, that was pretty much what i meant

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Competition for the fan's attention

If an advertiser has money to invest in commercials and events, there is a lot more exposure they can get for their money than putting it into pocket billiards.

Pocket Billiards does not have any entertainment value outside of its own players and fans.

Why would any advertiser want to invest, when they can get more bang for their buck by buying ad time on local high school games?

On average, more fans show up for a Friday night football game than for any billiards finals match up for any event in the USA.

Pool players ought to be thankful for having all these tournaments available and most now are streamed. 20 years ago, pool tournaments were terrible (maybe 4-6 good ones a year), gambling was a lot better then than today.

Now for my long standing rant on the Competition... when a TV viewer has the option of watching a single event LIVE on TV, they are going to pick what ever major event that is their favorite to watch.

NBA, NFL, PGA, MLB, NHL, NASCAR all come to mind that even the pool players will watch first before they will take time to pay for a stream or even watch in a pool hall. How in the world can Pool compete with those major league sports?

One major league game attendance can equal or exceed the total paid attendance of pocket billiards events in the USA in a year.

20,000 attendees in a single Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hocky game or a single day in any PGA event.

How can pocket billiards compete with that?
Even pool players get bored watching other pool players play.

Pool has to be more entertaing than it is to even try to compete with the smallest avertising dollars of those Major sporting events.

 

[ElKabong]

Competition for the fan's attention

If an advertiser has money to invest in commercials and events, there is a lot more exposure they can get for their money than putting it into pocket billiards.

Pocket Billiards does not have any entertainment value outside of its own players and fans.

Why would any advertiser want to invest, when they can get more bang for their buck by buying ad time on local high school games?

On average, more fans show up for a Friday night football game than for any billiards finals match up for any event in the USA.

Pool players ought to be thankful for having all these tournaments available and most now are streamed. 20 years ago, pool tournaments were terrible (maybe 4-6 good ones a year), gambling was a lot better then than today.

Now for my long standing rant on the Competition... when a TV viewer has the option of watching a single event LIVE on TV, they are going to pick what ever major event that is their favorite to watch.

NBA, NFL, PGA, MLB, NHL, NASCAR all come to mind that even the pool players will watch first before they will take time to pay for a stream or even watch in a pool hall. How in the world can Pool compete with those major league sports?

One major league game attendance can equal or exceed the total paid attendance of pocket billiards events in the USA in a year.

20,000 attendees in a single Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hocky game or a single day in any PGA event.

How can pocket billiards compete with that?
Even pool players get bored watching other pool players play.

Pool has to be more entertaing than it is to even try to compete with the smallest avertising dollars of those Major sporting events.

I'm thinking Japanese game show style....randomly exploding balls that are an instant foul. 10 second shot clocks that electrify the table when expired....:thumbup:

 

[Georgia Boy]

Competition for the fan's attention

If an advertiser has money to invest in commercials and events, there is a lot more exposure they can get for their money than putting it into pocket billiards.

Pocket Billiards does not have any entertainment value outside of its own players and fans.

Why would any advertiser want to invest, when they can get more bang for their buck by buying ad time on local high school games?

On average, more fans show up for a Friday night football game than for any billiards finals match up for any event in the USA.

Pool players ought to be thankful for having all these tournaments available and most now are streamed. 20 years ago, pool tournaments were terrible (maybe 4-6 good ones a year), gambling was a lot better then than today.

Now for my long standing rant on the Competition... when a TV viewer has the option of watching a single event LIVE on TV, they are going to pick what ever major event that is their favorite to watch.

NBA, NFL, PGA, MLB, NHL, NASCAR all come to mind that even the pool players will watch first before they will take time to pay for a stream or even watch in a pool hall. How in the world can Pool compete with those major league sports?

One major league game attendance can equal or exceed the total paid attendance of pocket billiards events in the USA in a year.

20,000 attendees in a single Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hocky game or a single day in any PGA event.

How can pocket billiards compete with that?
Even pool players get bored watching other pool players play.

Pool has to be more entertaing than it is to even try to compete with the smallest avertising dollars of those Major sporting events.

Tom
I agree with most of what you say and I think Pool is too fragmented it needs a single recognisable brand, such as those other sports you mention. Not sure about the boring bit, man have you watched Snooker and that gets some huge ratings?

 

[Quesports]

Welcome!

First, Welcome to AZ, it's a pleasure to hear opinions from countries other than our own here in America. Many do not understand that the views of other nations citizens can be quite different, one of the reasons I love to watch the BBC news.. Anyway while I may not agree with your statement entirely I hope you will keep posting, it's like a breath of fresh air to me. I heard a Norwegian saying once that goes, "there is no such thing as bad weather only bad clothing!" Love the mindset of the Norwegians you rock!!

First off, remember i come from Norway and gambling is not allowed over here, so that might colour my view, but it seems to me that it's the gambling aspect itself is whats turns people away.
It's intimidating for a novice to see people playing for money and knowing that if you want to be a better player, you eventually are going to be playing these guys - wich means giving them your money..
And besides gambling has always gone hand in hand with alcohol, prostitutes and other not so charming elements.
For the majorety of people their hobby is nothing they are trying to make money off - why should pool be any different.
The focus should to broaden the appeal of the sport, that means making the Whole experiance more pleasant for the avereage Joe.

 

[Wolven]

In order to grow pool in North America we need more kids playing. We have to get them hooked early on.
Unfortunately, a lot of places don’t allow kids, either because of the laws or the owners don’t want them around.
The parents often don’t want their kids going to places where you have drugs, drunks and what have you.
Access is everything, the game is fun enough that the kids will stick around. IMHO.

 

[Scott Lee]

Dan...That saying is not limited to Norway, or even other countries. In Montana we used to tell people, "If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes...it'll change!" LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I heard a Norwegian saying once that goes, "there is no such thing as bad weather only bad clothing!" Love the mindset of the Norwegians you rock!!

 

[Tom In Cincy]

GB,
I have watched entire Snooker matches and love the game. More pool players ought to experience Snooker.

In the other part of this planet, the USA major sports are not as popular as the Snooker events because of the WAGERS and online Snooker betting sites. You'll have to agree that it is a little more interesting when you've got a couple of quid on the match.

What I am saying is outside of the US, the competition isn't as stiff. Very few in Italy watch MLB, Nascar or even Hocky, but they will plop themselves down in front of the telly to watch a Russion pool match or Snooker.

Or, maybe, I am just so full of it that my eyes still contain too much BROWN. LOL

Tom
I agree with most of what you say and I think Pool is too fragmented it needs a single recognisable brand, such as those other sports you mention. Not sure about the boring bit, man have you watched Snooker and that gets some huge ratings?

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Oh, by the way, USA pool is the only sport that 'eats its young' :grin:

 

[Cdryden]

Dan...That saying is not limited to Norway, or even other countries. In Montana we used to tell people, "If you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes...it'll change!" LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Lol and here I thought that was a Missouri thing!!!

 

[Slh]

GB,
I have watched entire Snooker matches and love the game. More pool players ought to experience Snooker.

In the other part of this planet, the USA major sports are not as popular as the Snooker events because of the WAGERS and online Snooker betting sites. You'll have to agree that it is a little more interesting when you've got a couple of quid on the match.

What I am saying is outside of the US, the competition isn't as stiff. Very few in Italy watch MLB, Nascar or even Hocky, but they will plop themselves down in front of the telly to watch a Russion pool match or Snooker.

Or, maybe, I am just so full of it that my eyes still contain too much BROWN. LOL

I can reply as an italian user.. And that's not true. Here popular sports are: football ( or soccer very very popular), then F1, motogp and basket. You can view snooker in the pay per view but i don't know a single person who schedule to watch a match. If happens to be on the tv they watch it ( obviously a pool/billiard player) if it doesn't... nobody suffers because there isn't. Also 90% of people can name only o'sullivan, hendry and maybe Higgins. Russian pyramid is unknown here. Also Italian billiard is very little watched on tv ( always on the ppv) but played enough in pool rooms. Basically billiards in Italy in TV popularity is behind soccer, rugby, basket, f1, motogp, swimming, cycling, running and other sports. The truth is italian Billiards and pool are played in Italy ( Italian billiards much more) but in tv they have very very very small attention. Snooker has a bigger attention aired on eurosport but probably there are 10 or less snooker tables in the entire country.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

So, Italy was a bad example.
I appologize.

"Or, maybe, I am just so full of it that my eyes still contain too much BROWN. LOL" (Full of shitt)


By the way, what is F1? (Formula One?)
Basket = Eruo Basketball?
Motogp = gran prix racing?

I do really appreciate the Italian scenery.

I can reply as an italian user.. And that's not true. Here popular sports are: football ( or soccer very very popular), then F1, motogp and basket. You can view snooker in the pay per view but i don't know a single person who schedule to watch a match. If happens to be on the tv they watch it ( obviously a pool/billiard player) if it doesn't... nobody suffers because there isn't. Also 90% of people can name only o'sullivan, hendry and maybe Higgins. Russian pyramid is unknown here. Also Italian billiard is very little watched on tv ( always on the ppv) but played enough in pool rooms. Basically billiards in Italy in popularity is behind soccer, rugby, basket, f1, motogp, swimming, cycling, running and other sports. The truth is italian Billiards and pool are played in Italy ( Italian billiards much more) but in tv they have very very very small attention. Snooker has a bigger attention aired on eurosport but probably there are 10 snooker tables in the entire country.