He's a poker, wants to be a stroker

J

John oleson

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Am attempting to help a buddy ... despite lessons, books, DVDs and watching YouTube, he has been unable to consistently stroke through the ball vs. hit it.

It's sad ... he makes a lot of shots, but is unable to repeatedly draw the ball.

He's almost in tears and wants to give up.

Ideas welcomed or send me notes -- john_oleson@comcast.net

P.S. I could let him suffer, tell him it's hopeless and get a good deal on some cues :)
 
John oleson said:
Am attempting to help a buddy ... despite lessons, books, DVDs and watching YouTube, he has been unable to consistently stroke through the ball vs. hit it.

It's sad ... he makes a lot of shots, but is unable to repeatedly draw the ball.

He's almost in tears and wants to give up.

Ideas welcomed or send me notes -- john_oleson@comcast.net

P.S. I could let him suffer, tell him it's hopeless and get a good deal on some cues :)
Click to expand...

Suggest that he switch hands for a while. Two weeks of diligent practice off-hand only. The idea is that he will have to relearn everything, so it might help erase his bad habits.

If nothing else, he will gain a valuable tool.
 
John oleson said:
Am attempting to help a buddy ... despite lessons, books, DVDs and watching YouTube, he has been unable to consistently stroke through the ball vs. hit it.

It's sad ... he makes a lot of shots, but is unable to repeatedly draw the ball.

He's almost in tears and wants to give up.

Ideas welcomed or send me notes -- john_oleson@comcast.net

P.S. I could let him suffer, tell him it's hopeless and get a good deal on some cues :)
Click to expand...

Two things that helped several people I taught, have them execute the shot through the cueball to the object ball (meaning pretend they are going to strike the object ball not the cueball) and make sure they are hitting level and low enough. Most issues I see with draw are rooted in two things, not low enough and/or stopping the stroke at the cueball. The fear of hitting the tip on the cueball on it's way back is huge in people and prevents them from executing the shot. Setup a shot with a stripped ball or a training cueball, see where the actual hit mark is on the ball when they shoot. I would bet it's higher than what they think it is or if it's where they are aiming, they are not aiming low enough. Using a stripped ball is a good idea because the draw shot really starts at the lower end of the stripe or bellow and it gives a good indication of were it was hit in relation. Need to train the fear of a double-hit out of them.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
Two things that helped several people I taught, have them execute the shot through the cueball to the object ball (meaning pretend they are going to strike the object ball not the cueball) and make sure they are hitting level and low enough. Most issues I see with draw are rooted in two things, not low enough and/or stopping the stroke at the cueball. The fear of hitting the tip on the cueball on it's way back is huge in people and prevents them from executing the shot. Setup a shot with a stripped ball or a training cueball, see where the actual hit mark is on the ball when they shoot. I would bet it's a tip higher than what they think it is or if it's where they are aiming, they are not aiming low enough.
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Absolutely hitting much higher than they think. I've 'fixed' a couple of draw strokes for people by telling them to hit twice as low and half as hard.

The poke in and of itself will not keep someone from being able to draw a ball. It certainly isn't helping. I'd guess that he has a jerky end to his stroke. He isn't confident, expects to fail and tries too hard.

Get him a copy of 'the inner game of tennis'.
 
On the simplest level, a stroke is more similar to tossing a ball underhanded than you would initially think. Obviously, your follow through does not go up in the air, but you'd need to be thinking about throwing a ball with very little arc.

Have him stand either at the foot or the head of the table. I suggest the foot, and line up some balls horizontally a few inches off the foot rail and perpendicular to it. (I'd suggest around 8" off the rail, depending up height, arm length, etc.) Then have him stand upright with the cue resting on the rail. No bridge. Just cradle the cue butt in his hand.

Then, pick a corner pocket at the other end of the table. Simply bring the cue back and then follow through the object ball, attempting to roll the ball down the table, directly into the pocket. Don't bend over, don't use a bridge. Try for somewhere between pocket speed and medium speed. (Cue ball is not used here.)

If you can convince him to actually try this (oh, man, this is so demeaning!), you can easily see if he is coming back straight, following through straight (will miss if not), and can execute with relatively consistent, stable speed. It's not just me that thought this useful.

______________________________________________
My memory is foggy, as this took place a long time ago. But, the League Operator/BCA Instructor (Richard) had Jerry Briesath come to town to give a small group lesson one Saturday afternoon. I was lucky enough to have enough cash for the lesson and trusted Richard that it would help my game. Believe it or not, this was the first exercise Jerry had everyone do while he walked around and observed. (Oh, how I thought this was SO beneath me, but I kept an open mind.)

We did a few more exercises while he walked around, then he had us each put all the balls on our table and begin to pocket them as he observed. I was on a back table, where he ended up. I overheard him speaking to Richard, saying "This has to be your best player, right?"

Well, man I got an adrenalin rush from that and was on top of the world...for about 10 seconds. I promptly dogged a simple shot right after I heard that.

It worked out well, and yes, I got enough tips and instruction to maybe add a ball to my game.
 
John oleson said:
Am attempting to help a buddy ... despite lessons, ...
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I'm curious, what sort of lessons did he take? Did the instructor try anything to get his stroke/draw to work?

There are several exercises I use to improve students' stroke. A written description is in this:
http://www.sfbilliards.com/basics.pdf (page 5)

As for draw specifically, I find that by using a fist bridge nearly anyone can learn to draw reasonably well. The particular way I set up the shot pretty much forces them to hit the ball right. Once they see they can do it like that, doing it with a normal bridge is not so hard.

And, of course, there's chalking.
 
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Practice one handed, everyone should.
If he's pocketing balls as you say he must have a fairly straight and somewhat accurate stroke.
Any 1/2 decent instructor should have him going through the ball with one stroke lesson.
 
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John oleson said:
...is unable to repeatedly draw the ball.
Click to expand...
For draw, hitting the CB accurately is even more important than follow-through. Have him:

1. Use a striped ball for the CB with the stripe horizontal - aim to hit the bottom of the stripe
2. Watch the tip hit the CB ("CB last")
3. Check the chalk mark

pj
chgo
 
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A lot of good information already posted. Here is one easy step to try. Have your friend stand up a little straighter above the cue. His head should be above the joint... about 18 inches above the joint or more. This will enable him to follow thru further. It is true that nothing really happens to the cue ball after the cue hits the cue ball but if he does not follow thru he will slow down before he hits the ball. This should just free him up a little in his stroke. Simple and easy to try.
 
Timing. Stroke timing. Did I mention timing?

Accelerate SMOOTHLY through the CB. Try it, lemme know what you think.
 
Find one of those lead weighted wrist straps with about 2 pounds of weight on it. Strap it on his stroking arm and tell him to just stroke it normally. Bet ya he will follow through then by jimminy !
 
A friend of mine watched me struggle for about 5 - 10 attempts then suggested
I not use the 2 front fingers of the grip hand and used the stripe laid sideways.
Turns out I was raising the tip up as I came into the ball. Can't raise it up without
the 2 front fingers. Stripe gave me a aim point and I was better with the follow through.

hank
 
Take videos of your buddy so he can see what his stroke looks like. Early on when I first started playing, I had a buddy take videos of different shots and then compared my stroke to what I aspired to improve. I watched all the videos, read all the books etc, but learned the most about what "I" was doing wrong by watching those videos. Only then was I able to make the necessary corrections. Good luck
 
He is not finishing his stroke. Have him follow thru (assuming he is right handed) and touch his chest with his right hand. That will force him to get through the cue ball which he is not doing now. Unless he is not hitting the cue ball low enough. If that is the case then clean the cue ball before every shot, chalk up every shot and look for the chalk mark on the cue ball to see where he is actually contacting the ball the cue ball with his tip.. Adjust as needed...JMO
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Suggest that he switch hands for a while. Two weeks of diligent practice off-hand only. The idea is that he will have to relearn everything, so it might help erase his bad habits.

If nothing else, he will gain a valuable tool.
Click to expand...
Switching hands for a while helped me solve a grip issue that plagued me for years. Not a bad idea.
 
A rolling cue ball after object ball contact is a good start . Begin with mid- stroke technique with a 1 click.
Do not advance until the swing arm is feeling it, then continue.
2-3 hour lesson he should be able to duplicate 1-4 clicks.
Not that he will have mastered them but now he knows the stroke and feel of going through. Then comes the real stroke where an extended follow through happens on its own.
 
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