Hiding your speed

[trustyrusty]

Since I have posted in a few "gambling" threads I thought I'd start this one to get a few more questions answered.

I know that hiding your true speed is a time honored tradition in billiards; my question is why? Is it to milk as much money out of an opponent as possible? Do you think playing all out, all the time will kill your action? Why is it that hustling is so revered in pool? Are the guys that have mastered this practice scared of an "even" match, therefore they try to never really show their true game? I'm not much of a gambler, nor will I ever be, but is it truly "gambling" when you set up matches based on your "shown" ability???

I know, I know, since "everyone" else does it, that evens things out....

I don't mind having to "pay" to play better players, but I think it's kinda funny how they try to disguise how much better they are. I'm not going to go chasing that money anyways, so why the act?? It must be a gambler thing, and I may never get it, but I thought I'd ask.

BTW, I am currently a 2.7 GHIN (golf handicap) and have never felt the need to lie about that either...lol :thumbup: Yes, I've run into the gambling sandbagger types in golf too... oh well! :wink:

 

[Johnnyt]

To have a hustle or a con to work you need someone with greed for it to work on. There for I've always felt the hustle and the con that worked in just about anything was evened out and had no problem spending their money. Johnnyt

 

[trustyrusty]

To have a hustle or a con to work you need someone with greed for it to work on. There for I've always felt the hustle and the con that worked in just about anything was evened out and had no problem spending their money. Johnnyt

I get that...but that is between two guys in it for the money. What if one's in it for the game, and the other just wants the money? Why hide your speed then? I'm only gonna lose so much anyhow. Wouldn't it be more "time efficient" to win as quickly as possible, and try to find someone else?? Or, is he still gonna play down in case anyone else is watching? Oops, think I just answered that question....

 

[Fast Lenny]

I get that...but that is between two guys in it for the money. What if one's in it for the game, and the other just wants the money? Why hide your speed then? I'm only gonna lose so much anyhow. Wouldn't it be more "time efficient" to win as quickly as possible, and try to find someone else?? Or, is he still gonna play down in case anyone else is watching? Oops, think I just answered that question....

Its more like not killing your action and word of mouth goes a long way.They say just show enough to win,the guy will come back because he was barely beaten again and again. :smile:

 

[trustyrusty]

Its more like not killing your action and word of mouth goes a long way.They say just show enough to win,the guy will come back because he was barely beaten again and again. :smile:

I'll come back if I'm stomped on 7-1 or if I lose 7-5...so, I guess that leaves observers and word of mouth...

 

[memikey]

Why do most pool players who hide their speed who post on here seem to assume that the majority of guys they beat won't realise they're hiding their speed?

Are there really that many idiot marks to go round or is much of this just wishful thinking and/or a 'creative' or romanticised description of what their pool gambling career is really like?

 

[ShootingArts]

you pretty much answered it

I get that...but that is between two guys in it for the money. What if one's in it for the game, and the other just wants the money? Why hide your speed then? I'm only gonna lose so much anyhow. Wouldn't it be more "time efficient" to win as quickly as possible, and try to find someone else?? Or, is he still gonna play down in case anyone else is watching? Oops, think I just answered that question....

Two things, playing full speed can kill your action with everyone that sees it and almost everyone that hears about it not just the person you are playing. There is another issue too, playing your best game takes considerable effort. When it was all about the dollars anyway why work my butt off to win the same amount I could win coasting along? There were years when I only uncorked once or twice a year and that was usually in places I never thought I'd play again. It still cost me dearly, one place would have been a regular cash cow just an hour or hour and a half from home had I not killed my action the first night out.

I will note that back in the day I was almost always playing heads up. I didn't ask for or give spots so that had nothing to do with not playing my best game.

Hu

 

[mantis99]

I think it is weak to ever play less than you are capable of, especially to basically steal someones money. Besides I am too competitive, and take too much pride in giving a full effort to lose on purpose.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Sometimes you can't even get a game if your true speed is known.

A few weeks ago I played some C-level semi-banger who approached me. The only reason he approached was because he thought he could beat me after watching me practice. What he didn't know is that I was practicing left-handed on a tight table. The guy would have stayed away had I been shooting normally. I thought it was sort of funny when to his surprise I switched hands and beat him so bad he didn't even want to play a second set.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I'll come back if I'm stomped on 7-1 or if I lose 7-5...so, I guess that leaves observers and word of mouth...

Well you seem to have a big heart....and a small brain like me,but most people when they are run over stay down.

 

[trustyrusty]

A quick example from this weekend....big tourney going on (Pechauer), and a buncha players at the hall. I get asked to play (barbox) 8ball - same as what's being played in the tourney - and tell the guy I'm not much of a gambler, but wouldn't mind just shooting a few games. He finally gives me his lowest price (haha) $20 races to 5. I win the first set 5-3, and didn't play as well as I should have. We go again, and I win 5-4, but this time I played REALLY well, and noticed a few things he did to try to hide his speed....Here comes the act - "man, I just can't seem to find it today - blah, blah, blah, blah". I notice a buddy of mine's match is about to start, and say, I can only play him one more, so, he could cut the act (smiling all the while). I said, "I'll give you the $40 back and $10 for your time - so $50 for this last set....apparently he knew this was it....bang!!! 5-1, and I was lucky to get that one...lol. He coulda had $60 instead of $10, but he was trying to play me....funny.

 

[Fast Lenny]

A quick example from this weekend....big tourney going on (Pechauer), and a buncha players at the hall. I get asked to play (barbox) 8ball - same as what's being played in the tourney - and tell the guy I'm not much of a gambler, but wouldn't mind just shooting a few games. He finally gives me his lowest price (haha) $20 races to 5. I win the first set 5-3, and didn't play as well as I should have. We go again, and I win 5-4, but this time I played REALLY well, and noticed a few things he did to try to hide his speed....Here comes the act - "man, I just can't seem to find it today - blah, blah, blah, blah". I notice a buddy of mine's match is about to start, and say, I can only play him one more, so, he could cut the act (smiling all the while). I said, "I'll give you the $40 back and $10 for your time - so $50 for this last set....apparently he knew this was it....bang!!! 5-1, and I was lucky to get that one...lol. He coulda had $60 instead of $10, but he was trying to play me....funny.

Your a good sport!

 

[Koopa]

I think it is weak to ever play less than you are capable of, especially to basically steal someones money.

No shame in taking money from the greedy.

 

[kryptonite9]

I think the point you are missing here is that you are willing to "donate" money to better players. I do the same thing all the time, I will play anyone, not ask for a spot if the price is right just to play. People like us are far and few in between. Everyone else is not willing to pay for play or donate to a better player to learn something. Unfortunately in pool halls today, it is necessary to hide something unless you want to make no money or grind it out against the best player in the room everynight. Try going into new pool room and beat the best player or even play the best player in the room even, and then try to get a $20 set against anyone else. Good luck, all your action is gone, people wont play you even with a huge spot. I admire your heart and desire I don't think you should change anything but players have to make money against the masses not the few who are ALWAYS willing to play.

 

[Scott Lee]

Wow...You must be really proud that you beat up on a C player! Why didn't you show some heart, and continue playing off-handed. That might have made for a much fairer game!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Sometimes you can't even get a game if your true speed is known.

A few weeks ago I played some C-level semi-banger who approached me. The only reason he approached was because he thought he could beat me after watching me practice. What he didn't know is that I was practicing left-handed on a tight table. The guy would have stayed away had I been shooting normally. I thought it was sort of funny when to his surprise I switched hands and beat him so bad he didn't even want to play a second set.

 

[Samiel]

You know, I don't think I've ever approached someone I didn't know and ask them to gamble. I've asked people I didn't know to join in a ring game though. Almost everyone that's ever asked me to gamble out of the blue was some champion looking for a quick buck. Once they see that you're not at their speed, they come around like vultures! I think this shows lack of heart.

 

[Snapshot9]

Another point

to bring up is if you show your true speed all the time, you get clocked, and
then you could be in danger of getting hustled by another player, especially
by someone that brings in a player from another town. This happens all the time.

Someone that doesn't like you for some reason will set you up to get hustled.

It is bad in the world of Pool to be totally predictable.

I am not interested in getting the game to the middle, I just want to win.
If I have a good game on the line, I will always win 7-5 rather than 7-1.

 

[dabarbr]

Why do most pool players who hide their speed who post on here seem to assume that the majority of guys they beat won't realise they're hiding their speed?

Are there really that many idiot marks to go round or is much of this just wishful thinking and/or a 'creative' or romanticised description of what their pool gambling career is really like?

No there are not that many marks to go around that's why you need to handle them gently and try not bruise them.

I had one that I used to play one pocket with just about every other week. We always played for $40 game with him getting a small spot. I could have won $1000 from him the first time we played but I kept it to a small amount. Whenever he got into a real good position to win a game I wouldn't try very hard to take it away from him. We played for about a little over a year and I would guess that I won about $20,000 in that time.

Determining your opponents abilities and character will tell you how you're are going to handle them. One guy that I remember playing started at $10 a game eight ball and it quickly went to $40 game. I realized that this guy was going to quit when he won one game. I had to shoot all out trying to keep him from winning that one game. I won about a dozen games before he won that one game and sure enough he quit. I felt that he had something to prove to himself with that one game.

 

[Ky Boy]

Same here!!!


Gary

You know, I don't think I've ever approached someone I didn't know and ask them to gamble. I've asked people I didn't know to join in a ring game though. Almost everyone that's ever asked me to gamble out of the blue was some champion looking for a quick buck. Once they see that you're not at their speed, they come around like vultures! I think this shows lack of heart.

 

[Gum9Ball]

Since I have posted in a few "gambling" threads I thought I'd start this one to get a few more questions answered.

I know that hiding your true speed is a time honored tradition in billiards; my question is why? Is it to milk as much money out of an opponent as possible? Do you think playing all out, all the time will kill your action? Why is it that hustling is so revered in pool? Are the guys that have mastered this practice scared of an "even" match, therefore they try to never really show their true game? I'm not much of a gambler, nor will I ever be, but is it truly "gambling" when you set up matches based on your "shown" ability???

I know, I know, since "everyone" else does it, that evens things out....

I don't mind having to "pay" to play better players, but I think it's kinda funny how they try to disguise how much better they are. I'm not going to go chasing that money anyways, so why the act?? It must be a gambler thing, and I may never get it, but I thought I'd ask.

BTW, I am currently a 2.7 GHIN (golf handicap) and have never felt the need to lie about that either...lol :thumbup: Yes, I've run into the gambling sandbagger types in golf too... oh well! :wink:

For many players, slow playing may be a given to extend the playing time with your opponent or to keep the other player interested. Beating them flat out discourages many players from staying with a game or player, why play if you never get to the table.

BUT, what about the possiblity that your speed may actually vary due to things like, the number of times you've played in the last week, month, etc. The fact that you work for a living so that when you do play pool it is after a day's work and you are not as "on" as you would be if fresh. As in any sport you will have your good days and your bad days with varying levels of play in between SO should you be clocked - rated at your very best level of play which may only be reached or evident twice a month? This of course means that you probably play beneath that level on most days but because you are capable of playing better you have to match up that way. That is like saying, I ran 5 racks in a row last month so now I have to give my opponent a five rack handicap. NOT!

Some may "hide" their speed but others or with some it just may vary with their confidence and energy level, the amount of time they have to devote to practicing/playing. With me, there is a question as to which player will show up at a match, the one that can play or the one that makes unforced errors thus making it seem like I may be sandbagging.

Thought I would add a different spin to the 'hustle" that is always prevalent in pool, just my two cents worth.