Hitting balls too hard

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nrhoades

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the last major issues I have left to tackle is that I sometimes hit the cueball too hard. I do this a lot when I'm trying to break up a straight pool rack, especially when I'm playing on bar tables. If I'm not perfect the OB will rattle out.

Is there a rule of thumb for maximum cueball speed, or something to that effect?
 
C.Milian

C.Milian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Get on the billiard table. It's ok to spin the rock a little there. You'll find the answer there. j/k...just bits and pieces, but its worth it.
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nrhoades...I'm going to guess that you're still using strength/power to strike the CB...as opposed to cue weight and timing. Using the former makes it MUCH more difficult to quantify how much strength/power you need to accomplish the task (pocket the OB and do whatever else). When you have a start and finish process, the brain can train the bicep (with a loose grip) to move the cue forward at virtually any speed...from a lag to a break...at will, on demand, under pressure...and most important, in one try.

Scott Lee
www.poolknoweldge.com
 
C.Milian

C.Milian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
nrhoades...I'm going to guess that you're still using strength/power to strike the CB...as opposed to cue weight and timing. Using the former makes it MUCH more difficult to quantify how much strength/power you need to accomplish the task (pocket the OB and do whatever else). When you have a start and finish process, the brain can train the bicep (with a loose grip) to move the cue forward at virtually any speed...from a lag to a break...at will, on demand, under pressure...and most important, in one try.

Scott Lee
www.poolknoweldge.com
Click to expand...

I'm almost finished scott...ready to smooth me out?
 
D

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
For any joint to bend requires at least two muscles, one contracts as the other expands.

In the case of the elbow it is the bicep and tricep. It is these two muscles expanding and contracting that makes the elbow bend not just the bicep that alot of people seem to believe.

So, you really have to train two muscles and not just one.

I suggest doing pocket speed drill using all 15 balls. Just roll em out and use only enough speed to pocket the balls. It is surprising how little you need to really move the cb around.
 
The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
You can actually play it with 10balls instead of 15 because of the cluster issues. Modified like that it plays a lot like full rack on a big table... Aside from all your shots as easier and you can use the up table pockets at will... LOL Maybe it's absolutely nothing like the full rack version on a big table =)
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
duckie...while technically you may be correct, it is the tricep and bicep that are responsible for delivering the cue backwards and forwards...and the forward movement (bicep) that is most crucial. What you said still does not negate the difference between stopping the cue arbitrarily, and stopping the cue using your body. Can someone do it either way successfully? Sure. Which one is easier to , be accurate, and repeat...the one I described...hands down.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

duckie said:
For any joint to bend requires at least two muscles, one contracts as the other expands.

In the case of the elbow it is the bicep and tricep. It is these two muscles expanding and contracting that makes the elbow bend not just the bicep that alot of people seem to believe.

So, you really have to train two muscles and not just one.

I suggest doing pocket speed drill using all 15 balls. Just roll em out and use only enough speed to pocket the balls. It is surprising how little you need to really move the cb around.
Click to expand...
 
N

nrhoades

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mr Hoppe said:
Playing straight pool on a bar box is . . . just wrong.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. I mean, its not a stroke issue. I stroke pretty well now. I can pretty much make any ball with perfect position at regular speeds on a bar table. Most of the time I can also crank out high speeds with perfect aiming and smash into the rack.

But even this only breaks out a couple balls, if I can even get the cue around the table. And the OB will actually jump out of the pocket due to the thick rubbery plastic.

I think the issue is that it IS a bar table, and that it can't be played much better with that equipment.

That kind of sucks because the equipment is my limitation... I just can't get to a 9-footer on a regular basis to practice. I doubt anyone will argue that it will hold me back.

Plus I spend about $30-$40 a night just playing by myself. That sucks too.
 
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purpdrag

purpdrag

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nrhoades said:
One of the last major issues I have left to tackle is that I sometimes hit the cueball too hard. I do this a lot when I'm trying to break up a straight pool rack, especially when I'm playing on bar tables. If I'm not perfect the OB will rattle out.

Is there a rule of thumb for maximum cueball speed, or something to that effect?
Click to expand...

Based on my experience, I don't think there can be a universal rule or formula for this because I found different tables to be more or less forgiving of the hard hit.

I think what Niel said (don't hit harder than you need to to accomplish the task) is pretty good advice. It's not really that simple though is it?

I just lost a hill-hill tournament match on Tuesday by hitting too hard and rattling the pocket with just three balls left on the table. I had gotten a little too straight on the third to last ball. I could say I "needed" to hit it that hard to get the position I "wanted". But I forgot the rule that good position doesn't help much if you miss the shot. I should have just pocketed the ball with a smooth easy stroke and taken the resulting position, which still most likely would have been good enough. Left my opponent a 3/4 table length cut shot on the 8 that he could have missed, but didn't.

After the match he asked "Why did you hit it so hard? Could have just ..." He was so right and I felt pretty stupid. We both knew I had the match in my hands.

Problem in my mind was that the smooth easy stroke seemed like it wanted to bring the cue right over to the rail. So that was my (probably incorrect) mental justification for slamming the hell out of it. In retrospect I think it was one of those setups that looked much easier than it really was.

Such a shame because I had made some great shots and some good runouts in the match but because of that and a few other errors in cue ball speed I lost the whole match.

What a sob story. Sorry. Just try to leave angles so you never have to hit it so hard. As you've experienced, some tables are very unforgiving of the hard hit. Give up some position if you have to or think of a different strategy.
 
Blackjack

Blackjack

Illuminati Blacksmack
Silver Member
I discussed this issue in a video review I did a few years ago - this is applied to straight pool - but the rules I cover in this video can be applied in most any situation.

Going into The Balls
 
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fatsix

fatsix

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have this issue as well. I have trouble making the adjustment from practicing on a 9 footer (home), then playing in a league on a junk bar box. Makes me want to quit league play.
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
purpdrag....What's "hard"? It's a question that has no answer, because 'hard' is an arbitrary term, meaning different things to different people.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

purpdrag said:
Based on my experience, I don't think there can be a universal rule or formula for this because I found different tables to be more or less forgiving of the hard hit.

I think what Niel said (don't hit harder than you need to to accomplish the task) is pretty good advice. It's not really that simple though is it?

I just lost a hill-hill tournament match on Tuesday by hitting too hard and rattling the pocket with just three balls left on the table. I had gotten a little too straight on the third to last ball. I could say I "needed" to hit it that hard to get the position I "wanted". But I forgot the rule that good position doesn't help much if you miss the shot. I should have just pocketed the ball with a smooth easy stroke and taken the resulting position, which still most likely would have been good enough. Left my opponent a 3/4 table length cut shot on the 8 that he could have missed, but didn't.

After the match he asked "Why did you hit it so hard? Could have just ..." He was so right and I felt pretty stupid. We both knew I had the match in my hands.

Problem in my mind was that the smooth easy stroke seemed like it wanted to bring the cue right over to the rail. So that was my (probably incorrect) mental justification for slamming the hell out of it. In retrospect I think it was one of those setups that looked much easier than it really was.

Such a shame because I had made some great shots and some good runouts in the match but because of that and a few other errors in cue ball speed I lost the whole match.

What a sob story. Sorry. Just try to leave angles so you never have to hit it so hard. As you've experienced, some tables are very unforgiving of the hard hit. Give up some position if you have to or think of a different strategy.
Click to expand...
 
Mr Hoppe

Mr Hoppe

Sawdust maker
Silver Member
Playing position for your break shot to be a more severe angle will allow the CB to retain more speed after contact, thus you don't have to hit hard. Also, contacting the stack at the right point will allow more balls to spread across the table.

If you don't already have them, John Schmidt's 250+ ball run and review, and Danny Harriman's 280+ ball run and review videos are helpful. Another nice resource is the TAR Schmidt v Harriman 14.1 videos, which are part of their challenge match. The commentary by Ken Schuman is excellent.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
nrhoades said:
... I sometimes hit the cueball too hard. ...
Click to expand...
One of my British buddies calls this:
"Putting too much 'American' on the ball"
​
because he doesn't like it when Americans say:
"Don't put too much 'English' on the ball."​

Here's my advice: Don't do either.

Regards,
Dave
 
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