Holding back?

Why not just beat him and take his $20? If you were both on the hill, he already knows he can keep up with you so I'm sure he would have come back anyways. That's a $40 swing you took right there. Now if you win the $100, you're up $60 on him. At the end of the day, you're only getting 3-1 on your money. And moreover, if you were both on the hill, he has a good chance of taking your $100 on Friday.

Your math is a bit off...

He's down 20 now. If he plays and wins 100 on Friday, he'll be up 80. The 40 dollar swing is if he would have won the 20, and played and won on Friday, he would have been up 120, instead of 80.

Other than that.. your point is correct. Make them chase their money.
 
Your math is a bit off...

He's down 20 now. If he plays and wins 100 on Friday, he'll be up 80. The 40 dollar swing is if he would have won the 20, and played and won on Friday, he would have been up 120, instead of 80.

Other than that.. your point is correct. Make them chase their money.

I know what you're saying....but I'm accounting for the additional $20 that he SHOULD've won, but instead "dogged" the nine. To me, he's down $40 from where he should be. :D
 
tap, tap, tap!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I wonder what this post would be like if the poster was the one who just found out a playing mate had layed down on him to sucker him out of money?

You are wondering if what you did was the "correct move"? Maybe some people think so, or think its ok to try and basically swindle people out of their money, but I personally don't. What ever happened to people trying to make a fair game or play someone better than them to improve their own skills?

When I was up and coming, I got better by playing and gambling with players better than I. I hate to lose and it made me learn how to win. I don't even like to play people for money who can't at least play to a certain level. I find no challenge in that. Its fun once in a while to win easy money, but the game is more stumbled upon, not carefully planned out and executed.

I think the extra money you make this way lowers your value as a person and how people look at you. This is not saying you have to be a sucker and lose to everyone better than you, but don't hustle. It can get you in a world of hurt if its done to the wrong party.

On another note, I feel there is nothing wrong with toning down a loudmouth, arrogant person by beating them a little and possibly teaching them a lesson. (although these people usually don't learn anything from anyone)

In any case, you have to live with yourself, not me. So it really comes down to how you feel about something rather than those around you. You will suffer the consequences of your own actions. good or bad.
 
Okay this wasnt taken in the context that i wanted

First of all let me say thanks for the opinions, and no i never lay down in a game with friends or someone who respects me and my ability.

I laid down in this set because honestly, I made a mistake and got horribly out of line on the 9 and end up scratching. He takes ball in hand and the nine is dead, perfect straight into the fifth hole for any golf players and he shoots it off by a full foot. There's no one in the pool world I know who will miss a shot that horribly.And that made me angry, and I laid down because the kid was lying out his teeth. he walks in with a J&J 4 shaft 2 butt case that's got a predator BK 2 and a player's cue and states that he's played for 5 months and got into it really heavy. I start watching as we play, and I realize he's trying to hustle me, so this set was just me pushing him to see how much he had in terms of skill.

When i ask if dogging the nine on the last set was the correct move, had I beaten him tonight, knowing that he's not a local in the sense of he's in the same place i play every night, do I expect him to come back? No and I'm not out anything in my mind because I paid for the time and he called it even because he didnt want to deal with the change. Whoever said i dogged the nine ball on the last match, no i didnt miss it on accident, it was a very makeable ball, and I dont want excuses because the first thing about this game is you play, you don't make excuses for mistakes. You learn from them, because excuses wont make you better.

I'm just simply asking if giving up 20 to see what this kid had in terms of skill was worth it, because I didn't lay the set down to him, we both played rough and we were fighting tooth and nail for every shot in the race, I just honestly felt that I had seen what he had and for 20 bucks that's no problem. I have no qualms about money because i wont gamble bill money. My question was really pertaining not to the money or the game, it was more of a situation of should I have just played it for one night, or should I have considered the weekend.

It's once again hard to clarify my thoughts into words, but for some reason it just felt like laying the nine out on the last set was an easy opportunity to get someone into the room playing and whether he throws action ever again or not, he's still a practice partner, someone I can learn from because no one is perfect in the game or their ability. I'm not trying to sound like a hustler, because i dont want to be. I'd rather be respected by my peers as someone who never air barrels, who never tries to pull stupid games. But nor am I dumb enough to get onto a game and start firing on all cylinders, when I realize this kid is sandbagging? and like you guys said, it was 20 bucks, if I lost it I lost it and I learned to make them chase the money. I ask this not in ignorance but in how new I am to money side of this world.

If anyone was offended or feels what I did was disrespectful please contact me and let me hear your point of view. I'm always willing to stand up and admit when I make mistakes and I want to learn. That's why i'm looking to my peers to find out.
 
Ok ok ok... :)

Ok, you want to know if it was worth it? NO!

Next time ol' boy comes rollin' up in your pool hall I want you to get down with him for $20/set and smoke his a$$ the best you can until he quits.
I don't care if you make $20 or $200, but beat him like a redheaded stepchild and make sure you give it 100%! Ok, now MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Best of luck to ya man, knock 'em dead! :thumbup:
 
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Dude, don't apologize, you insinuated in your first post that he was obviously trying to move on you and not showing his speed, so there is no harm in trying to outmove someone....the whole honor among theives deal....but I still think you should have either slow played more, or you should have made that ball and taken the 20.....

Also, beware, he might just have another gear or two himself.....I'll be waiting Monday morning for you to bump this bad boy so I can see the outcome....
 
First of all let me say thanks for the opinions, and no i never lay down in a game with friends or someone who respects me and my ability.

I laid down in this set because honestly, I made a mistake and got horribly out of line on the 9 and end up scratching. He takes ball in hand and the nine is dead, perfect straight into the fifth hole for any golf players and he shoots it off by a full foot. There's no one in the pool world I know who will miss a shot that horribly.And that made me angry, and I laid down because the kid was lying out his teeth. he walks in with a J&J 4 shaft 2 butt case that's got a predator BK 2 and a player's cue and states that he's played for 5 months and got into it really heavy. I start watching as we play, and I realize he's trying to hustle me, so this set was just me pushing him to see how much he had in terms of skill.

When i ask if dogging the nine on the last set was the correct move, had I beaten him tonight, knowing that he's not a local in the sense of he's in the same place i play every night, do I expect him to come back? No and I'm not out anything in my mind because I paid for the time and he called it even because he didnt want to deal with the change. Whoever said i dogged the nine ball on the last match, no i didnt miss it on accident, it was a very makeable ball, and I dont want excuses because the first thing about this game is you play, you don't make excuses for mistakes. You learn from them, because excuses wont make you better.

I'm just simply asking if giving up 20 to see what this kid had in terms of skill was worth it, because I didn't lay the set down to him, we both played rough and we were fighting tooth and nail for every shot in the race, I just honestly felt that I had seen what he had and for 20 bucks that's no problem. I have no qualms about money because i wont gamble bill money. My question was really pertaining not to the money or the game, it was more of a situation of should I have just played it for one night, or should I have considered the weekend.

It's once again hard to clarify my thoughts into words, but for some reason it just felt like laying the nine out on the last set was an easy opportunity to get someone into the room playing and whether he throws action ever again or not, he's still a practice partner, someone I can learn from because no one is perfect in the game or their ability. I'm not trying to sound like a hustler, because i dont want to be. I'd rather be respected by my peers as someone who never air barrels, who never tries to pull stupid games. But nor am I dumb enough to get onto a game and start firing on all cylinders, when I realize this kid is sandbagging? and like you guys said, it was 20 bucks, if I lost it I lost it and I learned to make them chase the money. I ask this not in ignorance but in how new I am to money side of this world.

If anyone was offended or feels what I did was disrespectful please contact me and let me hear your point of view. I'm always willing to stand up and admit when I make mistakes and I want to learn. That's why i'm looking to my peers to find out.
You seem to presuppose if you won he would never play again. In fact he had lost a few dollars already and began chasing it with the $20.000 bet. If you won that he would most likely continue chasing. If he believe you two play that close you may have played this guy for the next three months. I had a guy I used to drive to Key West to play a few times a month. A 400 miles round trip. I beat him for $30,000.00 over like 6 months. You have to keep the guy coming back. You also need enough speed in reserve to offer spots and keep them playing. I don't know how you really play but it sounds like you may not necessarily be able to beat the guy. He could be a tougher player under the right circumstances then you think. You were playing for $2.00 a game. Suppose he comes back and woofs at you to play $400.00 sets? Are you confident enough to play? Just curious.
 
...he's like "anyone else got balls enough to step up and play for a couple of bucks a game?"

I ... realize that 100% he's sandbagging and trying to get me overconfident, so i immediately turned it down a notch and give him a few rough "luck safe" cuts that he can enjoy.

...

Okay did I play this move right??

LOL. Worry about "moves" when you start playing for more than $2 a game.

pj
chgo
 
you have it right

Dude, don't apologize, you insinuated in your first post that he was obviously trying to move on you and not showing his speed, so there is no harm in trying to outmove someone....the whole honor among theives deal....but I still think you should have either slow played more, or you should have made that ball and taken the 20.....

Also, beware, he might just have another gear or two himself.....I'll be waiting Monday morning for you to bump this bad boy so I can see the outcome....

I see absolutely nothing wrong with playing games with the game players. A super strong road player was playing me by the game. He let me win the first three. The fourth game I "accidentally" jawed a ball with only three ducks left on the table just to see if he would try to get out of winning that one! :D :D

The OP was the only one posting here that was there when he was playing. I'd have taken the twenty but if stalling felt right to him maybe it was. A person on the spot is getting all kinds of signals that none of us on a forum are getting.

As Big Perm says, sometimes both players are hustling and nobody knows what the other player has in reserve until they pay to find out. The OP knows that the other player was stalling, he knows that the other player either already knew who the toughest player in the house was or could pick him out just walking through the door. He is toting the tools of the trade, although maybe too many, and he seems pretty savvy. I'd proceed with great caution, hard to tell which end of the line the fish is on!

Hu
 
thanks/

You seem to presuppose if you won he would never play again. In fact he had lost a few dollars already and began chasing it with the $20.000 bet. If you won that he would most likely continue chasing. If he believe you two play that close you may have played this guy for the next three months. I had a guy I used to drive to Key West to play a few times a month. A 400 miles round trip. I beat him for $30,000.00 over like 6 months. You have to keep the guy coming back. You also need enough speed in reserve to offer spots and keep them playing. I don't know how you really play but it sounds like you may not necessarily be able to beat the guy. He could be a tougher player under the right circumstances then you think. You were playing for $2.00 a game. Suppose he comes back and woofs at you to play $400.00 sets? Are you confident enough to play? Just curious.

This is a great answer geared towards what I was asking. Do I think I can beat the guy? The way he played that night yes, now if he's hooking me trying to hustle the way I believe, he has another gear or two. Is it possible that we're evenly matched? 100% if he comes in and wants to play again even i'm all down for it, whether it's 20 sets, 100sets, whatever. I'm just not sure how to explain what triggered in me to lay that set off, other than i truly felt like this kid was trying to flat out low gear me into thinking he was a cakewalk. Because there were instances of him breaking and running to the 7 and then just randomly shooting a difficult but makeable with practice shot and not even cut the ball.

I'm not saying this kid is horrible, because he had a stroke that impressed me and even the guy working in the room told me he could shoot better than he was showing. So i didnt show what I had in full. Honestly? I hope this kid comes in friday night and that we play from 6 in the afternoon til sun up and that we play our guts out and have a crowd watching. Whether i come out up or down a grand at whatever game as long as he truly plays full 100% and beats me I have no problem. I dunno but I do thank you guys, because i'm getting several different view points and they are showing me that I may have had oversight, or that I could have done the right thing. Saturday morning you guys will know first thing how we come out.
 
Maybe in the movies but not in real life. You don't let the sucker get you stuck. You get ahead and then let them chase their money. If he quits early then you were not going to win anything anyway. If he starts chasing his money then you can stall keeping him on the hook.

Never let the sucker play with free money, they will quit you even or ahead almost every time. You should not have let him win, it has no bearing on whether he will come back and play some more if he has any gamble in him at all. In fact him losing that hill/hill would have been more likely to make him want to came back and play more.

The point is,
If you win and he quits right off the bat, even if it was close, he is a nit and you weren't going to win anything anyway. But if you win and he keeps playing, it shows he has a little heart and you may make a score if you do it right from that point.

"Never let the sucker play with your money, just chase their own."

Well said, and I agree. One more reason you don't let someone that is playing close to your speed is that sometimes that front runner money is all they need to start free stroking or they might have been holding back themselves. Johnnyt
 
if he comes in and wants to play again even i'm all down for it, whether it's 20 sets, 100sets, whatever.

Whether i come out up or down a grand at whatever game as long as he truly plays full 100% and beats me I have no problem.

In your post previous to this one you stated that you won't gamble "bill money". Where I come from a "grand" will pay quite a few bills ;)!!!

Maniac
 
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