Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Ah well. 9ball city. 2 matches and out. Hopefully we can win some in the 8ball city in 2 weeks. On a side note. 2 of our players won cues in the raffles. 1 Pechauer 1 Katana 25oz breaker. So not bad for everyone
how are ya'll doing in league ?
- Thread starter lorider
- Start date
We had our TriCup tournaments this past weekend. From our weekly league, there were three teams for 8 ball, and three for 9 ball that qualified.
So of those six teams, one was a complete no-show, one only had four players show up, and the other four went one and done. Not a great showing for our league, but that's how it goes sometimes.
My team only made it for 9 ball, and we made it to the fifth match-up in our match, but that had become Sudden Death due to the time limits. They had their 2 come in a few minutes before the match or they would have forfeited, and that kid played well. He only needed 9 points, so with SD, and points being doubled, he made his 5 balls in 4 innings, and that was that.
So of those six teams, one was a complete no-show, one only had four players show up, and the other four went one and done. Not a great showing for our league, but that's how it goes sometimes.
My team only made it for 9 ball, and we made it to the fifth match-up in our match, but that had become Sudden Death due to the time limits. They had their 2 come in a few minutes before the match or they would have forfeited, and that kid played well. He only needed 9 points, so with SD, and points being doubled, he made his 5 balls in 4 innings, and that was that.
I just don't understand this whole APA thing. To have to pick people to play with for the most part just based on how good or bad they play, or well league is on weekdays, but you know we schedule matches on weekends, so you need to forget doing things with your family or be ready to cancel family plans if a match comes up. Sounds like a great league for single people who's life is mostly pool, and that's all fine I guess, if everyone on the team is that way. Also the most ridiculous thing, that if somebody gets better you may have to kick them off your team because you now need a not so good player. Thats the stupidest thing I ever herd of.
I can really see why some say I'll never again shoot on a league.
We have limited experience in leagues , with about 6 years recently, and a couple years back in the late 70's. Teams are smaller, 2 and 3 person, and for the most part are not picking a partner based on how well they play, but who are friends, family members, or what ever. Are some based on how well they play, yes, but with players that are already good friends with each other. We shoot at two places, one a three person team, and one a two person team, both places have multiple leagues, one 3 nights a week, and one 4 nights, with 8 tables at ea place, and two slightly different handicap systems based on if a two person league or a three person league. On the 3 person league, ea shooter shoots 6 games, on the two person leagues, you might only shoot 3 games ea, or 6 or 7, just depends on the level of team you are shooting against. Ea ball scores 10 points, or a win scores either 100 or 105 depending on where we are shooting. On the two person team you play to your team handicap, so you could possibly win mid game, but you still finish out the game as the software needs finished games for averaging. The three person teams are basically the same except their is no winning mid game. If you can't make it on league night, their is an extensive list of subs to call on, and as both places use the same software, it's very easy to get subs.
Our leagues are very well run, there is no coaching while shooting, but some will comment to their teammates about what they should have done after they sit down from shooting. This mostly happens with mid level and down players and nobody really gets upset with that. Anyway, we're all friends for the most part, and we've met a lot of our closest friends through these pool leagues. I would say half or more are shooting tournaments most every weekend, but that has nothing to do with the leagues.
I can really see why some say I'll never again shoot on a league.
We have limited experience in leagues , with about 6 years recently, and a couple years back in the late 70's. Teams are smaller, 2 and 3 person, and for the most part are not picking a partner based on how well they play, but who are friends, family members, or what ever. Are some based on how well they play, yes, but with players that are already good friends with each other. We shoot at two places, one a three person team, and one a two person team, both places have multiple leagues, one 3 nights a week, and one 4 nights, with 8 tables at ea place, and two slightly different handicap systems based on if a two person league or a three person league. On the 3 person league, ea shooter shoots 6 games, on the two person leagues, you might only shoot 3 games ea, or 6 or 7, just depends on the level of team you are shooting against. Ea ball scores 10 points, or a win scores either 100 or 105 depending on where we are shooting. On the two person team you play to your team handicap, so you could possibly win mid game, but you still finish out the game as the software needs finished games for averaging. The three person teams are basically the same except their is no winning mid game. If you can't make it on league night, their is an extensive list of subs to call on, and as both places use the same software, it's very easy to get subs.
Our leagues are very well run, there is no coaching while shooting, but some will comment to their teammates about what they should have done after they sit down from shooting. This mostly happens with mid level and down players and nobody really gets upset with that. Anyway, we're all friends for the most part, and we've met a lot of our closest friends through these pool leagues. I would say half or more are shooting tournaments most every weekend, but that has nothing to do with the leagues.
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
Yesterday. Won both. Got a B&R in 8 and a mini slam in 9. I was still a bit pissed after the eight ball match though. Missed the same shot 5 times! Pulled it out 5-3 in 14 innings but wtf! It wasn’t even a hard cut. Finished off the match with a break and run. Thats always a good time at hill/hill.
I get this same sentiment from a lot of people on my teams and from others on other teams too. They all know me well enough to know that I have the same response every time. The APA is a business, and it is run as a business. Once you look at the things that APA does, and view it from the perspective of a business trying to maintain and grow the business, it all makes sense.
I've played on TAP leagues, and on NAPA leagues, and they're similar, but different. I really enjoyed NAPA, but that league folded when the operator passed away. Nobody wants to step up and run something aside from the APA in our area, so we get what APA has to offer. Yes, it has some flaws that make it aggravating occasionally, Yes there are those that game the system, and yes, that trip to Vegas is a carrot-on-a-stick that most will never even get close to, but it provides a structure to get lower and mid skill level people playing, and improve, if that is what they want to do. It's definitely more of a social activity than a competition for over 75% of those involved.
Rusty in Montana
Well-known member
To me the above post sounds like the VNEA league we have here , this was my first year involved with it , the team I played on or with did well considering none of us knew the others on the team then I and another fella are the " old guys " on the team and we didn't do shots and buy drinks for the team so we didn't fit in which works for me , I'm there for playing pool and my drinking days to be someone are long gone ha ha
By the end of the league season the team as a whole were all in the top 10 players or close to it out of 50+ players , time will tell as for who will be on the team for the upcoming season .
By the end of the league season the team as a whole were all in the top 10 players or close to it out of 50+ players , time will tell as for who will be on the team for the upcoming season .
I started my team 6 years ago with my best buddies. Play one night during the week, and 1 or 2 weekends a year for tourneys.
I got 2 very active teenagers. I coach many of their teams.
It is frustrating, but the APA is a money making business. The more they can force you to create new teams, the more money they make. Just the way it is.
For me personally, I have my own diamond table at home. I practice a lot. League is an opportunity to get out and see how the practice is translating to match play. I ain't ever going to make a living playing pool, and I don't fancy myself ever being in a Rocky type situation where I will come from nowhere and win the US Open. APA is a fun night out with my buddies. My goal is to be the best player I can be, and I pay very little attention to the things that upset a lot of the league detractors. Sandbagging? Doesn't bother me a bit. My goal is to blow my opponent off the table, if he wants to make it easier on me, fine by me.
There is plenty of low stakes action after the league matches. A SL 4 on my team won a race to 9 for $500 bucks last Monday night against a SL 6, getting 3 games on the wire. The SL 7 on my team is a 680 FR and will play just about anybody. Lost 2k playing Roberto Gomez on the big table last year and another 1200 playing him on the bar table. Barely ever got to the table, but it was fun to see.
League is what you make it. Sounds like you are in a perfect situation for you. Good Luck
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
see that’s the problem with people on my APA team. They really need to start saying what it really is. The one old guy is a 4 and happy about it. Our 3’s keep talking how they are trying to get better and blah blah. Well it sure doesn’t look like it. They don’t even watch the higher skills play. I’ve gotten to the point I called my safeties on 2 kickshots yesterday for the 1 or 2 team members that actually pay attention. I dont think the others even realize there is more to a kickshot than just hitting the ball. And that’s also why the guy(3) that watches is going up to a 4 soon. They can say what they want, but the other 2 are obviously only there for the social aspect.
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If pool league is meant to be a social occasion then the APA isn't the right fit for people that will also improve over time. That's simply the design the the 23 cap and the methodology of the handicapping system.
I play in a CCS (ACS) BCA type league that does not regulate team rosters based on handicap. There is a team that's been together for over 20yrs. You know what happens if a player's handicap goes up..?.., their team's handicap goes up and they give lesser teams more weight. Guess what happens if two or more members of a team has their handicaps go up...? Same thing... They get to stay together, have a good time, and only suffer a more difficult road to winning overall.
On top of that, all CCS players will eventually play one another over a course of a season. In APA, the match ups are SL based and you'll likely find your social circle consists of teammates of the moment and the usual suspects w/ opponents.
So much easier to field a team when the only thing that matters is if they don't have life getting in the way.
I play in a CCS (ACS) BCA type league that does not regulate team rosters based on handicap. There is a team that's been together for over 20yrs. You know what happens if a player's handicap goes up..?.., their team's handicap goes up and they give lesser teams more weight. Guess what happens if two or more members of a team has their handicaps go up...? Same thing... They get to stay together, have a good time, and only suffer a more difficult road to winning overall.
On top of that, all CCS players will eventually play one another over a course of a season. In APA, the match ups are SL based and you'll likely find your social circle consists of teammates of the moment and the usual suspects w/ opponents.
So much easier to field a team when the only thing that matters is if they don't have life getting in the way.
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So I mentioned before that we dropped the ball in the Masters league. So that's about ~$225 invested (dues) and only $125 won for finishing first in the regular season. ...down ~$100.
However we managed to win the regular season of my CCS Wednesday league. Not entirely sure what that payout will be, but I'm fairly confident I'll be ahead somewhat for the year. Playoffs for that league are this Saturday. I haven't been playing the best lately, and the humidity is skyrocketing. ...so I suspect that the rather poorly conditioned room I play in will be humid as hell and the nicely embedded dirt in the cloth will turn into a tacky mess come this weekend.
Should be fun...lol
However we managed to win the regular season of my CCS Wednesday league. Not entirely sure what that payout will be, but I'm fairly confident I'll be ahead somewhat for the year. Playoffs for that league are this Saturday. I haven't been playing the best lately, and the humidity is skyrocketing. ...so I suspect that the rather poorly conditioned room I play in will be humid as hell and the nicely embedded dirt in the cloth will turn into a tacky mess come this weekend.
Should be fun...lol
I think that those types of players make up a high percentage of my divisions here. With the caveat that most of them are competitive enough, they certainly want to win. Most will not be practicing beyond league nights. (Self included, these days...) The way I've tried to describe it for folks is that APA is a night that is both social and competitive. It's very much like bowling leagues that I've played in, or some golf twilight leagues. It's held primarily in bars, for crying out loud.
People who enjoy competing but aren't driven (or have the time) to apply themselves to doing extra to improve. No one I know is actively trying to keep their ability low, they just aren't wired the same as those of you who can and do practice and apply yourselves to being better. And some people just don't have "it" and never will, but still enjoy playing.
Full disclosure. I've been a SL5 for probably 12 years now. One of the SL4s on my team has been a 4 for over 20 years now. I could go down the list of active players in our divisions and come up with a lot of similar examples (OK, not too many 20 year players, lol) with plenty of 5-10 year players who have all plateu'd and are essentially within one Skill Level of where they've been all along.
The nature of APA, in my opinion. Still plenty of room for "players", and it's fun to watch the ones who are really improving and moving up the ladder.
Funny..., and not to bash APA at all. However, I find that the 'up and comers' generally venture into the CCS league at my room when they decide to get serious. This is usually the SL6 group that's still trying to keep momentum. Big influx this year. Had several players that now play in both leagues approach me asking why I don't play regular APA. Simply tell them that I had been getting my fill of Vegas via Masters, and don't like the very late nights the local APA is know for. Even though the set format provides me greater odds at a higher win %.
That said, the strongest CCS guys will eventually wander into APA in an effort to poach a Vegas trip. Not usually likely to win it in a team event, but their focus is on singles.
You don't see a lot of handicap progression in the local CCS league. I'm sure it happens but it's not the publicity participation ribbon it is in APA
Well, in our little corner of the world, there aren't a ton of regular opportunities for competitive play. We have APA 8 and 9 ball, we also have TAP 8 and 9 ball. There are chip style tournaments on weekend nights. Occasionally there might be a weekend tournament, but not often. The local Elks and Eagles clubs have inhouse leagues for a a portion of the year, but those aren't any higher level of play than APA.
So unless they want to find someone to match up with and gamble (and some do) or travel over an hour or more to other parts of the state, these are the options local to us. Some folks say that TAP is higher level than TAP, I can't speak to that as I haven't played it. I have spoken with lots of folks that play here, and most like it just fine, but the feeling I get is that it isn't really significantly higher level of play, they just handicap people approximately one skill level lower so you can have more higher level players playing on a team. Many folks here play in both leagues, so I do get some feedback. And yes, TAP is called shot for 8 ball, no slop, so there is that, but I don't think that is as big a deal for most folks in a rec league as others seem to.
At the ACS tournament in Vegas last week, the team I play on got 5/6 in 9 ball and we won the 8 ball standard division.
We had no killers or a dream team, it was the same core group that play ACS league once a week throughout the season.
We had no killers or a dream team, it was the same core group that play ACS league once a week throughout the season.
I love it when a team of guys that all get along and know how to gel together, do well in these team events. I still say that I'll take a group that has played together for years and give up 20-25 Fargo points per player against a team of guys who just met.
Dang your prize funds are laking comapred to ours.
The 1st place team in our 3 person league took home about $640 a person. We weren't that high up but took home about $380 a person.
They also have a 9 ball side pot every week where it's so much a ball. One of the better players had his # drawn two weeks in a row and shot pretty good and won over 3k in the two weeks. The pot was pretty big at the time.
Our other two person league we finished pretty low this year and only took home about $200 ea. We have a 50/50 raffle every week that kicks in money to our end of year prizes.
Well to be fair to the LOs and the respective organizations.
The Masters league is all about winning/financing the trip to Vegas. So other than what skimming is done by the APA/LO the only "money" is for the winners of the regular season, and its 500 regardless if you have a 3 or 4 man team. If you win it all (reg season / playoffs) then the value is probably in the realm of ~4500 for the team. That reg season 500 is the only cash you'll see. The rest is budgeted for travel/stay in Vegas. My APA LO is a bit of a penny pincher. For example he has refused to help his local players with USam costs. We've had a player from his leagues represent for several continuous years. Once placed 2nd. I'm not saying he's obligated to support his players, but I don't doubt he'd jump at the opportunity to promote his league with a winner of said event.
As far as the CCS league. You're not playing for any level of trip, but the LO pays back all monies collected. He does not supplement his income with league dues. I don't know the numbers but I believe the vast majority of teams (~14), if not all, get something back at the end of the season. As far as what I'm personally rewarded. My team carries 8 players, but only requires 5 so it's split up pretty good, and I don't want to talk out of turn as to what I'm receiving. I haven't been paid out yet. This LO is the most charitable man I've ever met in pool. He helped me a great deal in covering my expenses to the USopen last year. An event that has zero to do with his league or Org. Great man. I should add, that several players from this same league raised funds to assist me. Great bunch of people.
I don't play league to make money, so I'm rather indifferent to what I'm paid out. I only mentioned my +/- earlier because it's happened to jump into my mind while I was reflecting on the season and typing a post...lol
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Ya, you make some great points. Our league operators pretty much do it for the love of the game. I've never heard of any funds going back directly to them other than we pass a card around at the end to say thanks and also include a little something for their great work. They really put alot of time and work in it.
I don't know numbers. However I do know that the local CPA(APA) LO doesn't have a day job and manages to support his home/family. I've heard rumours of his income driven by the several leagues he runs. Again though, I don't know numbers so I won't comment beyond that. I don't see any problem with LOs being compensated on proportional level. It's a ton of effort and anyone running >10 leagues continuously throughout the year should be recouping something for their time. If not making a living.