How Did You Learn to Play Pool?
- Thread starter lfigueroa
- Start date
Beta machines didn't even come out until the late 70s (?). There were no books back then that were worth 2 cents.
I quit playing from 1972 til 1997- 25 years. Didn't buy a book until 1997 - The 99 Critical Shots of Pool and it wasn't until the 21st century that I bought another book or tape even.
I learned in the 60s by watching. I used to try and guess their next moves and shots back then - the only way to learn. Kids today are too freaking stupid to learn that way - you know the attitude - gimme now.
Joey, No, I'm not from Louisiana. Actually, born and raised in NJ. I decided to get an new cue about 20 years ago, and was trying to find who to choose to make it. Both George and Gus had passed, so I was having this discussion with a friend of mine, the late Tony Catucci, that owned one of my favorite pool rooms of all time, The Ballroom, in Toms River, NJ. He said, "come with me". I followed him to his office, where he showed me the most incredible cue collection I have ever seen. He said "if you want the finest cue available today,(this was 1989), then Bill Schick is the one".
He was right. And to this day, that cue is one of my most prized possessions.
Lou, thanks for links to your posts. Great reads!
The bottom line is this guys. Willie was truly THE GREATEST Straight Pool player that ever lived. Period. There are those who will argue that, but they probably are not old enough to have ever witnessed his greatness.
I miss him very much. I bet him and my Dad are havin' one hell of game up there!
Consistent ties of my pool game
Well Lou I did pick up the game very well at a rapid pace, but like all players
I did have my ups and downs in my younger years, at around age 35 my game was pretty damn good, being a more mature person I would think my game jumped just from sheer confidence, being around all the champions for so long and on the road all my life , I had it in me to play and I did, I just never cared for playing alot of tournaments, but have.
Alot of playing good comes from association, so I have been a perfectionist all my life about the game, I give alittle here and there, but mostly strive to do the correct shot and play every time.
David Harcrow
Well Lou I did pick up the game very well at a rapid pace, but like all players
I did have my ups and downs in my younger years, at around age 35 my game was pretty damn good, being a more mature person I would think my game jumped just from sheer confidence, being around all the champions for so long and on the road all my life , I had it in me to play and I did, I just never cared for playing alot of tournaments, but have.
Alot of playing good comes from association, so I have been a perfectionist all my life about the game, I give alittle here and there, but mostly strive to do the correct shot and play every time.
David Harcrow
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I'd love to know why the hell there're so few videos of Mosconi on youtube. It's bizarre, there are lots of other old greats, like Irving Crane, Ralph Greenleaf, Lassiter and Murphy. But I can't find anything good for Mosconi. You would think he would have the MOST recorded stuff.
Merry Christmas!
I have told my story before but it seems fitting to post it as a Christmas tribute to an old friend, long gone.
I started in the school of hard knocks, playing for beer in bars. I was AWFUL! Still some ten footers around, nine footers and deep cloth, and the bar tables. I lost on all of them for about six months before I started breaking even or a bit better supplying the drunks with beer. Not one to take losing lightly, I played a lot of pool, even bought a junk eight footer for the house. I paid more for a quality set of balls than the table.
Somewhere around fifteen I found Shopper's Pool Hall. It was a very rundown old pool hall in a rough part of town. It also allowed fifteen year olds to come in and play pool and drink beer, lots of beer. I was home, matter of fact despite holding down a fulltime job over sixty hours a week most weeks I was at Shoppers more than I was at home. This went on through several changes of management and I figured I was playing pretty fair pool by the time Jessie Mills bought the place a few years later. No doubt he was told I was a top customer and although I was still only sixteen or seventeen the matter never came up. I don't know how Jessie spelled his first name or even for sure that his last name was Mills, that was only told to me a few years ago. He was just "Jessie" at Shoppers.
Jessie helped out raw beginners, mostly in defense of his equipment, but I never saw him help out anyone else so when he started passing by my table to show me a shot or two I was insulted. I was making the money I spent at Shoppers gambling other places when I left there and I was way more than holding my own against local competition at this point.
One day when Jessie was showing me something else I shot him an angry look and Jessie never showed me anything ever again. However he made a regular habit of coming by my table and showing whomever I was playing something most regularly. Often it was something they had no chance of executing at their skill level as Jessie and I both well knew but he was protecting a young man's pride. I would use the shot later that day or a day or two later when I got the chance and without fail glance over to the counter and catch a grin from Jessie. I realize now that he spent a hell of a lot of hours watching me play.
Jessie was old school and wouldn't give lessons. We spent a lot of hours over the years just talking and became very good friends and I still remember how angry he would get when somebody wanted to buy what he had spent a lifetime learning. "I'll give them all of the lessons they want" he'd growl, "for ten dollars a game!" However he freely gave to a young man that was devoted to learning the game. Later he opened a kid's room in a nearby town too although I never found the place. I moved away and didn't go by Shoppers for a year or two and when I passed by again Shoppers and Jessie were both gone, never to be seen again.
I owe a lot to Mosconi too myself, just from a little time on TV. I saw some old footage from way before the Mosconi/Fats matches when I was 18 or 19. I thought I was playing pretty fair shape then. Watching Willie I learned what shape could be. After that I played spot shape, not area shape. For two or three years I focused intensely on controlling exactly where the cue ball stopped. I made a fortune over the years gambling largely due to all of the "accidental" safeties I made in the days when obvious safeties were heavily frowned upon and often led to a physical discussion.
One more teacher, Old Joe. Joe wasn't a friend, barely an acquaintance, but nobody ever owned me on a pool table the way Joe did for a few months. Joe was ancient, surely seventies, likely eighties, maybe nineties, and he was s-l-o-w ! It could take him a full minute to walk around the table. He never shot a ball hard enough it cleared the bevel of the pocket either. The hell of it was that Joe could run out on you and spend fifteen minutes doing it without deliberately stalling. Being young and dumb and full of . . . I forget what now, I would be sitting in my chair burning to get to the table. When Joe finally gave me a shot I'd jump up and either miss or blow shape in my eagerness to get Joe off of the old challenge table. This was an old country bar with gambling on the pool table 24/7 so a regular haunt and every time I showed up Joe wasn't far behind if he wasn't already there.
I wouldn't quit playing him and couldn't get a handle on how to beat him although I regularly beat "far better" players. Finally after several months I learned to only be a mildly interested observer while Joe was at the table. I came to the table fresh and relaxed and from that day on I'm almost sad to say Joe never beat me again. That little trick paid huge dividends in the years to come.
Jessie, Willie Mosconi, and Old Joe, those three men taught me things that made me several hundred thousand dollars over ten years or so. Two didn't know they did it and I never got a chance to tell Jessie how much I owed him. A Merry Christmas to all and to these three men, all long dead, that I owe so much to.
Hu
I have told my story before but it seems fitting to post it as a Christmas tribute to an old friend, long gone.
I started in the school of hard knocks, playing for beer in bars. I was AWFUL! Still some ten footers around, nine footers and deep cloth, and the bar tables. I lost on all of them for about six months before I started breaking even or a bit better supplying the drunks with beer. Not one to take losing lightly, I played a lot of pool, even bought a junk eight footer for the house. I paid more for a quality set of balls than the table.
Somewhere around fifteen I found Shopper's Pool Hall. It was a very rundown old pool hall in a rough part of town. It also allowed fifteen year olds to come in and play pool and drink beer, lots of beer. I was home, matter of fact despite holding down a fulltime job over sixty hours a week most weeks I was at Shoppers more than I was at home. This went on through several changes of management and I figured I was playing pretty fair pool by the time Jessie Mills bought the place a few years later. No doubt he was told I was a top customer and although I was still only sixteen or seventeen the matter never came up. I don't know how Jessie spelled his first name or even for sure that his last name was Mills, that was only told to me a few years ago. He was just "Jessie" at Shoppers.
Jessie helped out raw beginners, mostly in defense of his equipment, but I never saw him help out anyone else so when he started passing by my table to show me a shot or two I was insulted. I was making the money I spent at Shoppers gambling other places when I left there and I was way more than holding my own against local competition at this point.
One day when Jessie was showing me something else I shot him an angry look and Jessie never showed me anything ever again. However he made a regular habit of coming by my table and showing whomever I was playing something most regularly. Often it was something they had no chance of executing at their skill level as Jessie and I both well knew but he was protecting a young man's pride. I would use the shot later that day or a day or two later when I got the chance and without fail glance over to the counter and catch a grin from Jessie. I realize now that he spent a hell of a lot of hours watching me play.
Jessie was old school and wouldn't give lessons. We spent a lot of hours over the years just talking and became very good friends and I still remember how angry he would get when somebody wanted to buy what he had spent a lifetime learning. "I'll give them all of the lessons they want" he'd growl, "for ten dollars a game!" However he freely gave to a young man that was devoted to learning the game. Later he opened a kid's room in a nearby town too although I never found the place. I moved away and didn't go by Shoppers for a year or two and when I passed by again Shoppers and Jessie were both gone, never to be seen again.
I owe a lot to Mosconi too myself, just from a little time on TV. I saw some old footage from way before the Mosconi/Fats matches when I was 18 or 19. I thought I was playing pretty fair shape then. Watching Willie I learned what shape could be. After that I played spot shape, not area shape. For two or three years I focused intensely on controlling exactly where the cue ball stopped. I made a fortune over the years gambling largely due to all of the "accidental" safeties I made in the days when obvious safeties were heavily frowned upon and often led to a physical discussion.
One more teacher, Old Joe. Joe wasn't a friend, barely an acquaintance, but nobody ever owned me on a pool table the way Joe did for a few months. Joe was ancient, surely seventies, likely eighties, maybe nineties, and he was s-l-o-w ! It could take him a full minute to walk around the table. He never shot a ball hard enough it cleared the bevel of the pocket either. The hell of it was that Joe could run out on you and spend fifteen minutes doing it without deliberately stalling. Being young and dumb and full of . . . I forget what now, I would be sitting in my chair burning to get to the table. When Joe finally gave me a shot I'd jump up and either miss or blow shape in my eagerness to get Joe off of the old challenge table. This was an old country bar with gambling on the pool table 24/7 so a regular haunt and every time I showed up Joe wasn't far behind if he wasn't already there.
I wouldn't quit playing him and couldn't get a handle on how to beat him although I regularly beat "far better" players. Finally after several months I learned to only be a mildly interested observer while Joe was at the table. I came to the table fresh and relaxed and from that day on I'm almost sad to say Joe never beat me again. That little trick paid huge dividends in the years to come.
Jessie, Willie Mosconi, and Old Joe, those three men taught me things that made me several hundred thousand dollars over ten years or so. Two didn't know they did it and I never got a chance to tell Jessie how much I owed him. A Merry Christmas to all and to these three men, all long dead, that I owe so much to.
Hu
My Mother tended bar, and my Father managed at the Amvets Post 31 in Charleston SC. When they were cleaning up, and closing out their registers, I would stuff the pockets with bar rags that were to be laundered cause I only had one quarter to play with. I saw some sailor do the railroad shot and I was hooked! As far as learning, just figured it out on my own until my Dad took me to get some lessons from Eldrige Tucker. I was about 8 or 10 years old. :thumbup:
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Great story, told with passion! I loved it! Thanks :thumbup:
Great thread Lou.
I grew up playing sports; a friend's father had a beautiful pool table in his basement. We kids WERE PERMITTED TO WATCH, BUT WERE FORBIDDEN TO PLAY OR EVEN TOUCH THE TABLE. My father would always speak about his days in Kansas City with Willie Mosconi (who worked there for a few years). What agony. I vowed I would eventually get good at pool.
When I hit 16 (1969) and could drive, I headed immediately to the local pool hall. Unfortunately, no good tables, no good players, no good reference books (Mosconi and Crane had little books that were terribly insufficient; though they were my heroes). I did this for several years, could beat my friends, but it was obvious I was no good. I made the common mistake of assuming I just "didn't have the talent" for it.
When I was married, my wife and I agreed that the very first piece of "disposable income" furniture would be a pool table, 25 years later it actually happened - got a 9 footer for my 50th birthday. I practiced furiously for about 6 months, saw a little progress, but very, very feeble in comparison to a pro.
I knew that starting pool so late in life I would need instruction to ever reach my goal - I didn't perceive that I had time to "figure it out" on my own. My life changed when I fell in with George Breedlove and Jeanette Lee. They made it a little project to try to improve my game. George gave me lessons on physics and strategy; Jeanette became my straight pool mentor; but they both insisted I see Jerry Briesath and Mark Wilson (they are just about "interchangeable") if I wanted a professional quality stroke and professional quality ball pocketing.
Just as RandyG reported, meeting Jerry and Mark was a HUGE eye-opener; a life changing experience. They described a method that would get pro level results for anyone dedicated enough to follow it - and I've ALWAYS had the dedication, but never the knowledge. About a year and a half ago, I started monthly workouts with Mark Wilson; and the results have been amazing. Though still improving, I'm quite satisfied with the results. Still haven't run my first hundred, but have run lots of racks of 15 ball rotation.
I have also been lucky that Danny DiLiberto and Grady Mathews have befriended me; and they are not stingy about sharing what they know. Unlike the great players of the past (Mosconi and Crane in particular) all of the pro's I've mentioned here are NOT jealously guarding their "secrets". They are sharing the lessons they've learned the hard way, for the betterment of the sport. As more pro's follow their example, I am hopeful the sport will gain in popularity and respectability.
I am quite convinced that proper, focused practice using orthodox technique; with proper instruction; can yield a low pro level in about 10,000 hours. Its a damn hard game...but that's the attraction.
I grew up playing sports; a friend's father had a beautiful pool table in his basement. We kids WERE PERMITTED TO WATCH, BUT WERE FORBIDDEN TO PLAY OR EVEN TOUCH THE TABLE. My father would always speak about his days in Kansas City with Willie Mosconi (who worked there for a few years). What agony. I vowed I would eventually get good at pool.
When I hit 16 (1969) and could drive, I headed immediately to the local pool hall. Unfortunately, no good tables, no good players, no good reference books (Mosconi and Crane had little books that were terribly insufficient; though they were my heroes). I did this for several years, could beat my friends, but it was obvious I was no good. I made the common mistake of assuming I just "didn't have the talent" for it.
When I was married, my wife and I agreed that the very first piece of "disposable income" furniture would be a pool table, 25 years later it actually happened - got a 9 footer for my 50th birthday. I practiced furiously for about 6 months, saw a little progress, but very, very feeble in comparison to a pro.
I knew that starting pool so late in life I would need instruction to ever reach my goal - I didn't perceive that I had time to "figure it out" on my own. My life changed when I fell in with George Breedlove and Jeanette Lee. They made it a little project to try to improve my game. George gave me lessons on physics and strategy; Jeanette became my straight pool mentor; but they both insisted I see Jerry Briesath and Mark Wilson (they are just about "interchangeable") if I wanted a professional quality stroke and professional quality ball pocketing.
Just as RandyG reported, meeting Jerry and Mark was a HUGE eye-opener; a life changing experience. They described a method that would get pro level results for anyone dedicated enough to follow it - and I've ALWAYS had the dedication, but never the knowledge. About a year and a half ago, I started monthly workouts with Mark Wilson; and the results have been amazing. Though still improving, I'm quite satisfied with the results. Still haven't run my first hundred, but have run lots of racks of 15 ball rotation.
I have also been lucky that Danny DiLiberto and Grady Mathews have befriended me; and they are not stingy about sharing what they know. Unlike the great players of the past (Mosconi and Crane in particular) all of the pro's I've mentioned here are NOT jealously guarding their "secrets". They are sharing the lessons they've learned the hard way, for the betterment of the sport. As more pro's follow their example, I am hopeful the sport will gain in popularity and respectability.
I am quite convinced that proper, focused practice using orthodox technique; with proper instruction; can yield a low pro level in about 10,000 hours. Its a damn hard game...but that's the attraction.
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There's an ABC WWoS Mosconi/Caras 1963 video out there somewhere. There's a couple of really old film clips, called something like "Billiard Magic" or "Cue Men." I think they're up on Deno's site. He's also on a number of "Legends" videos done at Atlantic City, but he's way past his prime. A lot of these can be bought through Burt Kinister's site.
Lou Figueroa
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I'm not familiar with the name Eldrige Tucker -- could you tell us bit about him?
Lou Figueroa
WBM, you have been very fortunate to have knowledgeable players help you along your way. So what's your 14.1 high run nowadays (if you want to share it). Great story -- thanks.
Lou Figueroa
LF,
It's 61 (but please don't tell a soul) - done over a year ago. Fortunately my instructors do not hold it against me...learning pool is up to the student, not the instructor.
I basically play only on very tight equipment (in my defense
), and only in competition - I don't "practice" straight pool, and have never tried for "high runs" in practice. I'm fairly certain my "number" will be heading upward soon....but of course, I could be wrong.14.1man,
My father and several of his "gambling buddies" (golf, bridge, gin, bowling) hung around at the pool hall in Kansas City where Willie Mosconi worked in the early 1950's. According to them you are exactly right. They would never, however, have agreed with limiting him to 14.1. He was a great 3 cushion player and a great banker - and would have been the best at any game he applied himself to.
When these guys would watch televised 9-ball in the 80's; they would always opine, "these players are good, but Willie would destroy them." To them, he was the greatest ball pocketing machine ever; sort of like a "super-Earl."
P.S. - They always said (and I would NEVER vouch for their accuracy) that when Willie came to work every day, he would run balls until he ran a 200. They say it rarely took him even an hour. Imagine having an unfinished 200 every day...dang...
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I also belong to the million ball hit club!
I first got interested in a game called Knock Hockey around 1948. I found out that I was good at figuring out angles and started playing kids on their own table and at the youth center for money. Around that time a playmate on my block got a toy pool table for xmass. I think it was 2’x4’. Anyhow I got good at it and use to play the kids in the area for money. Around that time I made my own pool table out of plywood (stolen) and rubber weather striping I got somewhere. I used large marbles for balls and latter switched to golf balls. This lasted until my Mom And Dad started getting phone calls or stopped on the street complaining their son was taking all their kids allowance money on some pool table. My Dad cut it up and threw it out. A few months later he started taking me to the bars and teaching me to play on the 6x6 BB. I got good quickly and could beat just about everyone in the bar at 14 yo. He would stake me 80/20 his favor. When bumper pool became the game the same thing happened. I think by then I was getting 75/25 his favor.
So I went from Knock Hockey to toy pool tables to Bar Boxes and Bumper pool to 9’ pool table for 14.1 and 9-ball and 15-ball rotation to 3-cushion billiards and then back to the BB. Johnnyt
So I went from Knock Hockey to toy pool tables to Bar Boxes and Bumper pool to 9’ pool table for 14.1 and 9-ball and 15-ball rotation to 3-cushion billiards and then back to the BB. Johnnyt