how do i drill a straight hole?

[snipershot]

theres really no need for a carbide drill bit, if hes already boring the hole. he can use a smaller drill bit to get started then bore it to size .

thick 5 min epoxy works fine for a pin, but i only use a touch of it just enought to lock the threads the only issue i have with it is that if you have to remove it, it takes alot of heat which can damage the finish or a whole slu of other problems on the forearm.

glad the pin setter worked for you man.

when you come down saturday we can go over somestuff.

your new southbend should really help out.

I can't wait man. If it wasn't for all the help I've gotten here on AZ, id have got frustrated and said to hell with it, lol. I'm kind of surprised at how helpful everyone is. I was going to learn to make cues with a local cuemaker (or at least that's what he calls himself, lol), but he flaked out on me a while back, but he used to tell me he didn't want to share all his knowledge with me because it was so valuable. From what I've heard though, his knowledge isn't quite worth as much as he thinks, lol. I am definately better off learning from the collective mind of AZ. Thanks everybody, I appreciate it.

Joe

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

The original question was "How do you drill a straight hole?"

The answer is short and sweet with no exceptions: You Don't. Period.

You don't drill it or ream it - You Bore It. No exceptions, no spin, no fluff just plain and simple - You bore it.

 

[ComptonCustomCues]

The original question was "How do you drill a straight hole?"

The answer is short and sweet with no exceptions: You Don't. Period.

You don't drill it or ream it - You Bore It. No exceptions, no spin, no fluff just plain and simple - You bore it.

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::joyful:. I was waiting for someone to say it

 

[snipershot]

The original question was "How do you drill a straight hole?"

The answer is short and sweet with no exceptions: You Don't. Period.

You don't drill it or ream it - You Bore It. No exceptions, no spin, no fluff just plain and simple - You bore it.

I learned it the hard way man, lol. I ended up buying a boring bar from conetip and my crooked hole problem went away, but my last update was about my crooked pin problem. I followed the very good advice from qbuilder and Trent and my big problems are starting to become easy fixes. I totally agree with you though, boring is the only way. I wish I had known that sooner, maybe my first 3 cues would be playable, lol.

Joe

 

[ComptonCustomCues]

You only messed up three.....damn your doing good....lol:speechless:

 

[snipershot]

You only messed up three.....damn your doing good....lol:speechless:

I've only done 5, lol. I more proud that I was able to save the last one after the way it turned out. That's why I got all these house cues to practice on, lol.

Joe

 

[Dave38]

If your setup is true (meaning your chuck jaws are true and your tailstock is centered on your headstock) you should be able to center drill and then drill 1/4" then 5/16" with GOOD drill bits, endmills, carbide bits, etc. then tap with a quality tap holder and tap, then use your drill chuck in the tailstock to hold the pin while the epoxy sets, you should be fine. Whether you use 5 minute, or west system epoxy, doesn't matter as long as it's mixed well, and you support the pin centered while the set time runs down.
I personally think the most important things to do are, true up your jaws, then adjust your tailstock to them. Then use quality drill bits/endmills to make your hole. Next is to have a tap that is sharp, thread it all the way, then use a tap that is ground down so that it is the same as a bottoming tap, which means the all the threads are cut the same, almost right to the bottom of the tap, so that the lowest threads are cut as the upper ones, not a shallow thread at about 1/3 rd of the way down like a normal tap will do. This will eliminate a pin thread going in, and cocking to one side when it bottoms out. It will also allow you to use a less deep hole, and less chance of an air bubble at the bottom.
The only pins I use a boring bar for are the center drilled flat minor pins I am now using. Does it help with an all thread pin? I don't think it helps, as much as most taps, without a pilot, have slop in them and an all thread pin doesn't have enough body to hold a tolerance, so without a chuck or other device to hold the pin centered while the epoxy dries, it's a shot in the dark as to how centered it will be when dried....JMO
How many people here have bought all thread pins and put them in a chuck and indicated them?? I have and have found that about 2/3rds of what I have bought from different suppliers are about .005" off to start with just by chucking them up, let alone drilling and tapping a hole then expecting them to be dead nutz......
JMO
Dave

 

[Cue Crazy]

I use a 1/4 carbide drill or slightly larger to make a hole, then follow up with a 0.312 carbide reamer that has 6 flutes, then make the threads with a piloted tap. Works well for me. I actually prefer the 3/8 pin, for some reason they give me less headaches then the smaller pins.

 

[aphelps1]

Greg,
Do you have a source for your carbide reamer?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[JoeyInCali]

If your setup is true (meaning your chuck jaws are true and your tailstock is centered on your headstock) you should be able to center drill and then drill 1/4" then 5/16" with GOOD drill bits, endmills, carbide bits, etc. then tap with a quality tap holder and tap, then use your drill chuck in the tailstock to hold the pin while the epoxy sets, you should be fine. Whether you use 5 minute, or west system epoxy, doesn't matter as long as it's mixed well, and you support the pin centered while the set time runs down.
I personally think the most important things to do are, true up your jaws, then adjust your tailstock to them. Then use quality drill bits/endmills to make your hole. Next is to have a tap that is sharp, thread it all the way, then use a tap that is ground down so that it is the same as a bottoming tap, which means the all the threads are cut the same, almost right to the bottom of the tap, so that the lowest threads are cut as the upper ones, not a shallow thread at about 1/3 rd of the way down like a normal tap will do. This will eliminate a pin thread going in, and cocking to one side when it bottoms out. It will also allow you to use a less deep hole, and less chance of an air bubble at the bottom.
The only pins I use a boring bar for are the center drilled flat minor pins I am now using. Does it help with an all thread pin? I don't think it helps, as much as most taps, without a pilot, have slop in them and an all thread pin doesn't have enough body to hold a tolerance, so without a chuck or other device to hold the pin centered while the epoxy dries, it's a shot in the dark as to how centered it will be when dried....JMO
How many people here have bought all thread pins and put them in a chuck and indicated them?? I have and have found that about 2/3rds of what I have bought from different suppliers are about .005" off to start with just by chucking them up, let alone drilling and tapping a hole then expecting them to be dead nutz......
JMO
Dave

Dave,
That only works if the hole is oversized .
If it's the right size, all you are doing is pushing the exposed part of the pin to center . Once you take it out, the exposed part of the pin would go back to it's happy place.
The pin is not going to move inside that wood unless that hole is oversized.

 

[qbilder]

The original question was "How do you drill a straight hole?"

The answer is short and sweet with no exceptions: You Don't. Period.

You don't drill it or ream it - You Bore It. No exceptions, no spin, no fluff just plain and simple - You bore it.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

Here's typical tooling needed for a 3/8-10 flat bottom thread pin with alignment barrel. Sizes may vary depending on pin dimensions but the principle is the same. Drill a perfect hole, ream the last .002" & you have a perfect hole every single time. Drilled and reamed, no boring & no room for human error & inconsistencies. Same hole every single cue, center, clean, straight. Why have precision machines if you aren't going to use precision tooling? There's no need for boring on a cue if you ante up & pay for the correct drill tooling. A 3-flute bit makes it virtually impossible for the bit to wander off center, so no fears of the hole not being straight.....ever.

For a couple hundred bucks you have tooling for joint work that will last a lifetime without need of resharpening, and gives exactly precise, consistent holes. Nobody with a lathe should ever be afraid of drilling holes because of accuracy. But it's not going to happen using a common bit from a set that cost $75 for the entire set. And one time of boring a hole slightly too large due to common human error and it costs you more than you'd have spent on the proper DRILL tooling to begin with. There's nothing wrong with drilling & reaming. It's infinitely more consistently repeatable than boring. You just can't cheap out.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Greg,
Do you have a source for your carbide reamer?

Thanks,
Alan

Sorry Alan I don't have a source off of the top of My head right now. I got the one I use in one of those machinist lots that I won on ebay several years ago, and got lucky finding the one I use for 3/8 pins in there. It was brand new in the tube never even been used until I got a hold of it. I just saw one on ebay but the flutes are shorter then mine, and the shank looks pretty long. I'll snap a picture of mine and post It for you in a little while.
Greg

[/QUOTE]

 

[hdgis1]

Are the shear and rake angles on those cutters designed for wood? and if not, are they as efficient as ones that would be? The only reason I ask is because I would think that inefficient cutting and chip removal would lead to overheating and undue stresses on the cutting tools and the wood?

The only reason I ask is because of my woodworking background - One wouldn't use a saw blade designed for cutting aluminum to cut maple. Or a solid surface router bit to put a profile on wood.

Chris

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

Here's typical tooling needed for a 3/8-10 flat bottom thread pin with alignment barrel. Sizes may vary depending on pin dimensions but the principle is the same. Drill a perfect hole, ream the last .002" & you have a perfect hole every single time. Drilled and reamed, no boring & no room for human error & inconsistencies. Same hole every single cue, center, clean, straight. Why have precision machines if you aren't going to use precision tooling? There's no need for boring on a cue if you ante up & pay for the correct drill tooling. A 3-flute bit makes it virtually impossible for the bit to wander off center, so no fears of the hole not being straight.....ever.

For a couple hundred bucks you have tooling for joint work that will last a lifetime without need of resharpening, and gives exactly precise, consistent holes. Nobody with a lathe should ever be afraid of drilling holes because of accuracy. But it's not going to happen using a common bit from a set that cost $75 for the entire set. And one time of boring a hole slightly too large due to common human error and it costs you more than you'd have spent on the proper DRILL tooling to begin with. There's nothing wrong with drilling & reaming. It's infinitely more consistently repeatable than boring. You just can't cheap out.

 

[Arnot Wadsworth]

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults

Here's typical tooling needed for a 3/8-10 flat bottom thread pin with alignment barrel. Sizes may vary depending on pin dimensions but the principle is the same. Drill a perfect hole, ream the last .002" & you have a perfect hole every single time. Drilled and reamed, no boring & no room for human error & inconsistencies. Same hole every single cue, center, clean, straight. Why have precision machines if you aren't going to use precision tooling? There's no need for boring on a cue if you ante up & pay for the correct drill tooling. A 3-flute bit makes it virtually impossible for the bit to wander off center, so no fears of the hole not being straight.....ever.

For a couple hundred bucks you have tooling for joint work that will last a lifetime without need of resharpening, and gives exactly precise, consistent holes. Nobody with a lathe should ever be afraid of drilling holes because of accuracy. But it's not going to happen using a common bit from a set that cost $75 for the entire set. And one time of boring a hole slightly too large due to common human error and it costs you more than you'd have spent on the proper DRILL tooling to begin with. There's nothing wrong with drilling & reaming. It's infinitely more consistently repeatable than boring. You just can't cheap out.

Yes, but a boring bar bit every size hole for only about $100.00 and it is
just as accurate as your lathe.

 

[qbilder]

Are the shear and rake angles on those cutters designed for wood? and if not, are they as efficient as ones that would be? The only reason I ask is because I would think that inefficient cutting and chip removal would lead to overheating and undue stresses on the cutting tools and the wood?

The only reason I ask is because of my woodworking background - One wouldn't use a saw blade designed for cutting aluminum to cut maple. Or a solid surface router bit to put a profile on wood.

Chris

No, not designed specifically for wood. But they don't cause any more heat than any other bit. Plenty enough relief. Not as aggressive as wood bits, but far more accurate & consistent.

 

[hdgis1]

Thanks Eric.

Chris

No, not designed specifically for wood. But they don't cause any more heat than any other bit. Plenty enough relief. Not as aggressive as wood bits, but far more accurate & consistent.

 

[qbilder]

Yes, but a boring bar bit every size hole for only about $100.00 and it is
just as accurate as your lathe.

I'm not disputing the the accuracy of a boring bar. You said drilling & reaming shouldn't be done for joint work by any means what so ever. I argued that yes, it can be done to a very high degree of accuracy, repeatability, and speed. You shouldn't be so quick to assume the way you do things is the way everybody should do it. You may be very good with a boring bar. Me, i'm a screw up. I have ruined cues by boring a hole too large, and that cost me far more than the tooling I now use for drilling & reaming. You apparently aren't so successful with drilling holes. So you bore. Two sides of the same coin. Yin & yang. I do a pin install in about a minute, maybe two. I know every single time that the pin is right on. It's not even a worry or a passing thought. There's nothing I can do to screw it up. That is worth the couple hundred bucks in tooling, to me at least.

 

[Cue Crazy]

I'm not disputing the the accuracy of a boring bar. You said drilling & reaming shouldn't be done for joint work by any means what so ever. I argued that yes, it can be done to a very high degree of accuracy, repeatability, and speed. You shouldn't be so quick to assume the way you do things is the way everybody should do it. You may be very good with a boring bar. Me, i'm a screw up. I have ruined cues by boring a hole too large, and that cost me far more than the tooling I now use for drilling & reaming. You apparently aren't so successful with drilling holes. So you bore. Two sides of the same coin. Yin & yang. I do a pin install in about a minute, maybe two. I know every single time that the pin is right on. It's not even a worry or a passing thought. There's nothing I can do to screw it up. That is worth the couple hundred bucks in tooling, to me at least.

I have done it both ways, when boring, I have noticed that the type of bar or tool you use can make It easier or harder to bump It in, some boring bars will easily go over size, and others work better, making It easier to take smaller passes until you hit the mark. the tool I sometimes use for smaller hole boring operations is not even a boring bar, just a small tool that works like one for me, but It does a nice job of getting me where I need to go.

The reamer I use for 3/8 just happens to be the perfect size, and like you mention It only takes a few minutes. Maybe this is not actually the case, but due to the small drill size that I use to under drill the hole, By the time I use the reamer It seems to work similar to a boring bar. Either way the end result is a straight hole that is much easier and faster to machine. By the time I tap and set the pin it's running so true that I do not even need to hold It in place with the tail stock while the epoxy sets up. Like I mentioned in the previous post I got both the drill and reamer that I use in a lot of machinist tooling, so My costs were minimal, and neither have needed sharpening yet. I think the piloted tap cost me more then I paid for the entire lot. I like to buy lots like that, and often times I find tooling in them that was never used.

I agree I can't fault either method, just 2 different ways to get from point "A" to "B", but the reamer does seem to save me some time and hassle providing that It is the correct size for given task.

BTW I just recently saw that You had been ill, seems to be several people that have went down this year, Glad to see You are doing better and back up to speed.:smile:

Greg

 

[Guerra Cues]

I'm not disputing the the accuracy of a boring bar. You said drilling & reaming shouldn't be done for joint work by any means what so ever. I argued that yes, it can be done to a very high degree of accuracy, repeatability, and speed. You shouldn't be so quick to assume the way you do things is the way everybody should do it. You may be very good with a boring bar. Me, i'm a screw up. I have ruined cues by boring a hole too large, and that cost me far more than the tooling I now use for drilling & reaming. You apparently aren't so successful with drilling holes. So you bore. Two sides of the same coin. Yin & yang. I do a pin install in about a minute, maybe two. I know every single time that the pin is right on. It's not even a worry or a passing thought. There's nothing I can do to screw it up. That is worth the couple hundred bucks in tooling, to me at least.

Installing a pin when somebody starts making cues seems to be ez peezy... Not until you do it... Then one day I was talking to Eric and he shared his method with me and I haven't looked back.
A few things I always do before I start the process... I use a co-axial indicator to make sure my tailstock is dead nuts and only takes less than a minute to align it. Also, if you are using a metal lathe, do yourself a favor and use a machinist level to make sure your machine is levelled and don't use your HF $1.99 level.
My 3/8x10 pins have a different diameter but the process is the same.
I also use all carbide drill bits from Unique that are actually a bit cheaper and they do not move or chatter.
Thanks for sharing again Eric
Everybody has a different opinion about the right way... Just do it the way it works for you after you've done your screwups.
Happy cue building...


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scdiveteam]

I'm not disputing the the accuracy of a boring bar. You said drilling & reaming shouldn't be done for joint work by any means what so ever. I argued that yes, it can be done to a very high degree of accuracy, repeatability, and speed. You shouldn't be so quick to assume the way you do things is the way everybody should do it. You may be very good with a boring bar. Me, i'm a screw up. I have ruined cues by boring a hole too large, and that cost me far more than the tooling I now use for drilling & reaming. You apparently aren't so successful with drilling holes. So you bore. Two sides of the same coin. Yin & yang. I do a pin install in about a minute, maybe two. I know every single time that the pin is right on. It's not even a worry or a passing thought. There's nothing I can do to screw it up. That is worth the couple hundred bucks in tooling, to me at least.

Eric,

I have a question for you and anyone else that wants to weight in. I have not been following this thread and just picked up on this page tonight. If I am recovering some items already covered I apologize in advance.

I agree with your procedure and step drill and only bore my centering barrel with the cue running true with a slight amount of shimming to the outside of my tapered collet ( a piece of waxed or zig zag paper or 2 on the high side of my six jaw). I use to use the reamer but have opted for the boring of the last machining operation.

I install my pin to 1/4 thou. accuracy every time in about 5 minutes after setting up and shimming the collet. Sometime I get zero tro but I have found the it make so difference if I am at zero because my cues roll perfect every time anyway.

So here is my question:

Do you massage, bump or lever your pin a touch after applying the epoxy when you indicate? I do and I have 4 other cuemaker friends who live in my area who all do the same as a routine.

Sometimes my pins don't need any persuasion and I attribute this to the density coefficient of the wood inside the radial wall of the hole being equal and behaving not my skills. When I install my pin in an aluminum rod using the same method, the pin mirrors the very slight run out of my chuck.

Most of my pins in wood are at .001 or .002 or less when I insert the pin and I have a 10 inch phenolic tube that I apply just a touch of leverage to zero in when the indicator shows the highest point of the slight canting. I use a Loc-tite Hy-sol a 36 hour slow cure epoxy for my pin which gets harder that any epoxy I have tested.

I guess what I am trying to say is as long as you get repeatable concentricity on your pin to an accuracy that your guidelines dictate for process control whats the difference.

I am very interested in your thoughts concerning my question as I respect your candor on these posts for peer check and review.

Rick G

For those who tap their threads and may be having some problems with repeatability, this might be worth trying:

One thing that I incorporate as a design feature of my cues is to epoxy inserts in the machine areas because of the constant density throughout this area of business. It is especially effective in the shafts because when you put the cue together, you can't over torque and stress the wood fiber of the threads over time.

After aligning fancy stitch rings I have noticed that even after 7 years my rings don't rotate off line. Which is a good thing. I am an Omega DPK disciple and in the day, they used regular black phenolic in this area. I think the Garolite Le is better and looks better. JMO

Note: I don't show the sanding of the insert to account for .002 difference. I will add in Rev. # 3. "A work in progress"