How do these diamond tables play so badly? vid
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neolux
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They were called a monarch cushion. And I believe they are almost the same profile as a k55 except it may be an 1/8 shorter from rail to nose. I believe they were also used on the GC1. I would pose this question to The RKC, as he is the expert in this area!
Nope I don't find blue easier on the eyes because matchroom said so. I say that because I've played on both and find the blue easier on my eyes. I also just like the look of the grey as well. I also don't see how the red or black dots on a cue ball would bother any viewers.
Also I'm not that young (41) . I don't mind watching snooker but can find it a little on the slow side and find their strict dress code out of touch. Dress pants , dress shoes, vest and tie are not needed for playing snooker or pool. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't dress presentable, I don't want to see them playing in ratty clothes either.
Ghost of OBC
Well-known member
The point isn't that perfection is attainable, it's that a Diamond doesn't even approximate banking on system. Pool is meant to be a manifestation of geometric principles. Just check out classic Donald Duck in Math Magic Land. Angle in = angle out? At moderate speed a GC gets close. Diamonds don't even try.
Why bother trying to level a table if no table is ever truly level? Isn't adapting to roll off just part of the game? Don't better players figure out how much borrow to play into the wonky corner faster than weak players? Maybe pool tables should be like golf greens, each unique and faster and steeper the better the player.
So Monarch cushions were prior to Superspeed? What did Diamond have back at that time?
I wonder if there are STATS on how often PRO's bank on a Diamond vs a Gold Crown.
I'll say this one more time for the people that don't read!
Yeah, they do, check out the DCC bank pool event, over 500 players and no crybabies about how Diamond's bank!!
And the Pros always win!!
I agree RKC. Crying over it gets you nowhere.Yeah, they do, check out the DCC bank pool event, over 500 players and no crybabies about how Diamond's bank!!
And the Pros always win!!
Personally I adjust and play both tables. I just enjoy an UN-Frankensteined GC a little more.
Perhaps we should think about how many DIAMOND tables have now been Frankensteined by room owners.
Do Artemis cushions have cloth string embossed into the rubber for support?
Monarch Superspeeds were found on Brunswick tables from GCII and prior.m GCIII and later started using Superspeeds which is a K55. Diamond didnt enter the pool tables market until around 1987, quite awhile after the change from Monarch Superspeeds to current Superspeeds. I believe Diamonds also use a K55 profile, same as Brunswick.
The original diamond had Superspeed.
Then Championship .
Brunswick had a ton of problems with Superspeed when those were no longer made in the US.
They finally found a better manufacturer.
Yeah but the point is that they both use K55 profile regardless of the brand of cushion.
Yes, because Diamond tried to replicate GC.
If they really had superspeed on some early tables, and they didn't play right, then either they didn't copy the wood rail geometry of the GC correctly, or the oak rails were too stiff compared to the poplar rails on a GC.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
If you think a diamond is banking short you are hitting it too hard. Period.
It's all about the hardness of the rubber and how it reacts. If it's banking short, you're hitting it too hard, if it's banking long, you're hitting it too soft no matter what table.
I hear people bitching about tables banking short. My Olhausen supposedly banks short. I can nail any bank on it (or a diamond) The second I go to a valley or a GC (admittedly there aren't many around locally that haven't been butchered or just wore out) they bank different. I bank harder on a GC or a Valley than I do on my home table. I adjust to playing conditions, just like everyone must.
You have to adjust the systems and it's all in how hard you hit the ball. The cushions must compress the correct amount for systems to work. Stop banking hard and Diamonds bank on system. Not the same speed as other tables, but you can use systems on them just as any other table. It takes practice.
With modern cloth and modern rails you don't have to pound shots like you did on old cloth.
Everyone can prefer whatever they want but there is NO SYSTEM that you don't have to adjust your speed for the table. Diamonds play faster... so stop pounding banks. Bank the ball at pocket speed and it plays true.
Yes, on the top side for compression support.
Cushions that don’t bank a ball the way you expect they should doesn’t mean the tables play badly or were set up badly. It just means they play / bank different than other tables you may be used to, which is an adjustment you and every other player will have to make. No different than adjusting for cushion speed, cloth speed, pocket size, clean vs dirty balls, etc.
Thats fine if this is your preference but sometimes we could believe things that arent true if we are told it just like religions. Scientifically green is best for the eyes for "MAJORITY" of people, we dont care about minority. Plus again for the ties and classic looks we also care about majority here and maybe you if we do follow-suit the classic route just like snooker we as a sport grow bigger and perhaps you shouldnt watch either pool or snooker. the minority isnt the problem for us, we want the majority. And my suggestions work for the majority which will yield more money for pool in the long term.
Red dots cueball is horrible idea simply because it removed all the mystery of our game, as a player I do stuff with the cueball that mezmerize people who don't know how to play thats the idea, its like magic.........imagine a magician show you his magic of the cups & balls but with CLEAR CUPS, you get to see how he do his slight of hand and expose his whole magic, Thats literally what they done with pool and its ridiculous, I know people dont see it but I saw this centuries ago when they brought this red dotted cueball, it literally removed all the excitement of what the pro's are doing with the cueball because the non-pool player can now see whats happening, its so bad.
One guy above said the opposite, he said the red dotted cueball was created to add excitement and viewing pleasure so that they see the spin of the cueball, NOOOOOOOOOO it doesn't, its exactly the opposite lol. Please think deeply, i really need deep thinkers here. You have three type of people, 1) the top pro's, 2) the average player. 3) the non players only viewer. Ok, now there are certain shots where #2 knows how to execute but its difficult for them, and #3 knows nothing alright. When the pro do extreme things to the cueball and it got no dots in it, its like a mystery and it keeps everyone wanting to watch more so they could understand how the pro did it. But this already is removed because now we are exposed. We know exactly whats happening to the cueball even the average joe knows how the cueball is spinning. there's no excitement anymore.
Ghost of OBC
Well-known member
Let's see a video of you hitting a corner to corner three rail shot through the second diamond on the long rail on a Diamond. You will either be short on speed or the bank is short. Dr. Dave has a whole section of his site about adjusting for short banking Diamond tables. We aren't imagining it.
If you baby it, and maybe lengthen with running english you can make one rail kicks work on system, but they do not want to do it.