How do these guys get their shoulder behind their head?

ChopStick said:
I have been trying but my head won't turn that way. I got closer last night than I ever have and the alignment looked good down the cue but there was tremendous pressure in my neck. Am I missing something?

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Stand with you right hand feet parallel to line of aim but about six inches left of it this will force you to twist your shoulder
 
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If your right handed and right eye dominant, shouldn't your right eye be aligned over the shaft? It looks like his left eye is over the shaft.
 
New2Cue said:
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If your right handed and right eye dominant, shouldn't your right eye be aligned over the shaft? It looks like his left eye is over the shaft.
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I didn't mention anything about eye dominance in my post above, but yes, you need to know if you have a dominant eye (some folks, like myself, don't). And if you do, to position your head such that your field of view appears where the cue is coming up 100% from the bottom (and not skewed from one side). Notice I didn't say anything about eye placement over the cue. That's because it's possible to have weak eye-dominance -- meaning, you don't need to put your dominant eye "100%" over the cue, but rather in some area between the center and that dominant eye.

EDIT: don't make the assumption that if you're right-handed, you must therefore be right-eye dominant as well. Cross-dominance is actually quite common. Ronnie O'Sullivan is cross-dominant (left-eye dominant), so you see he has the cue under his left eye.

You need to find that out for yourself -- where under your head/chin does the cue appear to come up 100% from the bottom of the field of view, and not "come in from" one side or the other.

-Sean
 
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Good morning gentlemen. I have done it. I have been looking for this position for 40 years and thanks to you guys I found it in one night. It took 4 hours to get stretched out but it it is comfortable, repeatable and totally awesome. For the first time ever, the cue is straight down the middle of my visual field, not slanted right to left. The stroke is relaxed, natural, powerful and perfectly straight. The tip stays on the line clear to the end of my longest follow through and it does it naturally on it's own. I don't have to think about it. Thanks again guys.

Or course now, my feet are all messed up so I will need to find a new place for them.
 

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ChopStick said:
Good morning gentlemen. I have done it. I have been looking for this position for 40 years and thanks to you guys I found it in one night. It took 4 hours to get stretched out but it it is comfortable, repeatable and totally awesome. For the first time ever, the cue is straight down the middle of my visual field, not slanted right to left. The stroke is relaxed, natural, powerful and perfectly straight. The tip stays on the line clear to the end of my longest follow through and it does it naturally on it's own. I don't have to think about it. Thanks again guys.

Or course now, my feet are all messed up so I will need to find a new place for them.
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Great! Now, just make sure that you do it that way EVERY time. Ingrain the "new" way to line up so it becomes automatic to you. I believe you will now find the game much easier to play. Your consistency should go way up now. Really pay attention to every detail now, and you will learn the fastest on what does what, and be able to duplicate it much more often.
 
ChopStick said:
That is what has been happening to me. My right shoulder is just outside my right ear so I have to either angle my forearm in or draw my elbow back behind to bring the cue inline. Neither of which are natural for me and in power strokes or hours into competition it tends to revert on the follow through and my tip finishes offline. I have been fighting this for years and I am fed up with it.

Funny you should mention O'Sullivan and Hendry. I was studying photographs of them today along with Blomdahl. I am able to get my shoulders in position. I need to work on flexibility in my neck to get there. That is what is holding me up right now. Sounds like I am in for some pain. I don't have a problem with that. I just watch these guys doing it so easily I thought there must be something wrong with the way I was going about it.
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Chopstick,

I don't think you need to sweat this too much. You don't need to be a flexi gymnast to make shots.

In my early twenties I worked very hard to replicate the Hendry action.

That was 13 years after I started playing... intuitively.

In the last 20 odd years I've learned that most things I thought were necessary are not. I now often stand higher above the ball and I could care less where my shoulder and elbow are relative to the cue line.

The KEY IS THE BRIDGE positioning. Whether you chicken wing left or right, it's not that hard to learn to make the cue run reasonably straight and through the center CB, or intended line, however the mechanics are set up.

It's way harder to get the bridge in an accurate position.

And, as far as alignment goes, the most crucial factor is getting your eyes at an angle to the cue and shot that best allows you to place the bridge accurately via perceiving the line of aim.
 
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Interesting read.

I was looking at a video I took of myself a couple years ago and I did a frame capture of this shot with me facing the camera. I'm pretty close to having my head, shoulder and elbow all in a line, but I need my right eye over the stick to shoot straight, so the head is a little over to the left.

This isn't anything I do on purpose, but is rather an artifact of being overweight. I can't stroke past my belly without bending down and twisting this way. :o

This stance feels rock solid to me, but if anybody see something radically wrong that I'm missing, go ahead and speak up.

Oh... for the record, I ended up missing that shot on the 10. :p
 

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Sloppy Pockets said:
Interesting read.

I was looking at a video I took of myself a couple years ago and I did a frame capture of this shot with me facing the camera. I'm pretty close to having my head, shoulder and elbow all in a line, but I need my right eye over the stick to shoot straight, so the head is a little over to the left.

This isn't anything I do on purpose, but is rather an artifact of being overweight. I can't stroke past my belly without bending down and twisting this way. :o

This stance feels rock solid to me, but if anybody see something radically wrong that I'm missing, go ahead and speak up.

Oh... for the record, I ended up missing that shot on the 10. :p
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Looks fine to me.

Oh, and shoot the combo next time (11/13?)
 
victorl said:
Agree with everyone that foot positioning is basis for proper alignment.
Also many new players tend to keep their cue very close to their body, which makes it impossible to have a straight head-arm-shoulder alignment.
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From what I can see, all pro snooker players keep the cue very close to their body (actually touching in most cases). I would also say that most players have their foot position mostly correct already as there are 101 videos on this and it's not rocket science to put your foot on the line of the shot. I don't think this is ChopStick's problem imho.
 
evilwizzzard said:
From what I can see, all pro snooker players keep the cue very close to their body (actually touching in most cases). I would also say that most players have their foot position mostly correct already as there are 101 videos on this and it's not rocket science to put your foot on the line of the shot. I don't think this is ChopStick's problem imho.
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evilwizzzard...You do realize you're posting in a 7-year old thread? The OP is long gone. No need to dig up old rehashed topics.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
 
Scott Lee said:
evilwizzzard...You do realize you're posting in a 7-year old thread? The OP is long gone. No need to dig up old rehashed topics.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
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Oldy but a goody - some good discussion about shoulder position, a stance topic that isn't addressed much.

pj
chgo
 
ChopStick said:
Keithing it...:D I know exactly what you are talking about. I have tried both ways. Neither way leads to consistency for me.
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What a great term! My right hand is in conventional position when I shoot, but switch to lefty and it is Keithing to keep control of the shot.
Just how it works when it works at all for me!
 
I'm no expert, but I had a lot of trouble with this and found a solution that works for me.
The problem is basically due to where the cue is resting against your body. The temptation is to have the cue resting along the side of the chest, however this results in chicken winging the shoulder.
The correct position is more along the front of the chest. However the second problem here is that if you have poor neck mobility then as you try to turn your head to the left, when your neck hits resistance, your cue will start slipping back around to the side of your chest again.

Here is my solution to fix this. It's by no means a natural or professional technique, but it should get your body a little more used to the correct position imho.

1) While in the standing position, hold the cue perendicular to the shot line and pull the cue in towards the front of your chest with both hands.
2) Pull your right shoulder (for a right hander) back. Do this before you get down on the shot. This will help lock the cue in its current position.
3) While pulling the cue in towards your chest, get down on the shot. Rotate your body and the cue onto the shot line while turning your head the other way. You will notice that your head is turning more than it used to in order to get above the cue.

If you now take a photo of yourself from behind, you should see that your shoulder, head, and elbow are all in alignment.

I know this seems like a difficult way of going about it. But I honestly pored through tons of forum posts and Youtube videos on this and I could not find another description that works. I believe it's basically due to poor neck mobility or shoulders that are rolled forward more than usual.

Note also that once you do this, you will have to recalibrate your vision center / head position, because no doubt when you were chicken winging your shoulder, you were compensating for this flaw with an incorrect head position.

I would appreciate feedback from experts on this whole chest position thing. Because I recognize that this is an awkward way of getting down on the shot. However it forces my body to conform to the right position and looks good on camera. Also my straight shooting has improved dramatically.

Note to victorl, I am talking about classic snooker technique where the cue rests against the chest, rather than American pool technique where the cue is held away from the body.
 
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There’s another way of looking at this....right hand player....stick your left arm straight out to the side..
...in line with your shoulders....look down your left arm....there it is.

I never went for setting your feet early...doesn’t accommodate many positions.
I come from golf...I set my feet last...that way your stance accommodates the shot.
 
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