How do we all help improve the image of pocket billiards?

Pool should never be introduced to any youth program, this will be a horrible thing. BCA did the right thing. Pool is addictive individualistic game, i am afraid its effect is somewhat similar to drug addiction. Kids that become good at it will tend to forget about school and indulge into it, and the better they get the more desire for intense feelings, and drive them into gambling eventually, and in short time they drop out of school and loose their chance to recover.
One time someone asks Efren, would you want your kids to shoot pool, he said, no no no , they have to finish their education, and stay away from it. This is coming from the what used to be #1 and one that earned lots of money doing it.

One might say, what if kids that are involved in pool has to maintain higher grades A & B in their class, this is ok, but i bet you you will loose those kids because they will drop to C & D level in no time


The addiction comes from the person, not the game. Just because one gets addicted does not mean all will. So because some people have addictive personality, you want to keep the game from those that do not have that problem.

Video games do more harm than pool.

And so what if they do, it's really none of your business how someone leads their life and maybe they are getting a better education about life playing pool. You know, learning to make it on your own skills and judgement and learn to not always look to others for your answers.

You know that to get somewhere takes hard work, to makes things happen takes thinking ahead and planning.

This idea that pool has no good in it is the heart of what's wrong with pool not growing.
 
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I would follow the smart money and concentrate on the east. Barry Hearn has it right knowing the games days in the west are numbered.
The following article gives some insight, sorry you need to subscribe to read the whole article but the gist of it is the largest portion of prize money comes from China and the games showpiece World Championships could be in China after 2015.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/snooker/article3584756.ece

I think pool is in the same boat, If I was looking to make a living from this I would move to China.

Who knows maybe after a while if the game gained some prestige the tide may turn and interest in the west may be revived. With the revenue coming in it would have the resources to promote itself.

The time is ripe, lots of Chinese companies with tons of cash looking for promotion.
 
The addiction comes from the person, not the game. Just because one gets addicted does not mean all will. So because some people have addictive personality, you want to keep the game from those that do not have that problem.

Video games do more harm than pool.

And so what if they do, it's really none of your business how someone leads their life and maybe they are getting a better education about life playing pool. You know, learning to make it on your own skills and judgement and learn to not always look to others for your answers.

You know that to get somewhere takes hard work, to makes things happen takes thinking ahead and planning.

This idea that pool has no good in it is the heart of what's wrong with pool not growing.

We are talking kids here, what you said in red above applies to mature adults, and that is perfectly fine, even though we should look after each other as adults as well. Kids have to be guided to activities that improve their social behavior, team spirit, improve health and physical well being, and improve brain functional ability. Of which pool does not offer much of that.
I do not see issue if pool remain as family recreational activities same as with Video games, but to make it organized out of the house activity for kids that is not advisable.
 
naji...Well, thankfully, you've already been proven wrong, with both the programs that Earl Munson established in Dallas, and the program that mnorwood established in Houston. Gotta watch out for those really dangerous bowling alleys! LMAO Naturally, "Brown-nose Rick" would agree with you...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Pool should never be introduced to any youth program, this will be a horrible thing. BCA did the right thing. Pool is addictive individualistic game, i am afraid its effect is somewhat similar to drug addiction. Kids that become good at it will tend to forget about school and indulge into it, and the better they get the more desire for intense feelings, and drive them into gambling eventually, and in short time they drop out of school and loose their chance to recover.
One time someone asks Efren, would you want your kids to shoot pool, he said, no no no , they have to finish their education, and stay away from it. This is coming from the what used to be #1 and one that earned lots of money doing it.

One might say, what if kids that are involved in pool has to maintain higher grades A & B in their class, this is ok, but i bet you you will loose those kids because they will drop to C & D level in no time
 
Slasher...Aww man...if you think the English language is hard to grasp...Chinese is FAR more difficult, imo...and then there's those 1000's of dialects! LOL

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

If we ever meet remind me to tell you the story of my Chinese friend that got lost in northern China and had to ask a local English expat to translate for him lol
 
Pool should never be introduced to any youth program, this will be a horrible thing. BCA did the right thing. Pool is addictive individualistic game, i am afraid its effect is somewhat similar to drug addiction. Kids that become good at it will tend to forget about school and indulge into it, and the better they get the more desire for intense feelings, and drive them into gambling eventually, and in short time they drop out of school and loose their chance to recover.
One time someone asks Efren, would you want your kids to shoot pool, he said, no no no , they have to finish their education, and stay away from it. This is coming from the what used to be #1 and one that earned lots of money doing it.

One might say, what if kids that are involved in pool has to maintain higher grades A & B in their class, this is ok, but i bet you you will loose those kids because they will drop to C & D level in no time

I could not disagree more.
And in my weak un-educated opinion, what you have stated borders on ridiculous.

It's not about the game(s) at all, its all about context. The context in which the game(s) is introduced and promoted. And to a lesser but still relevant extent, the public role models* associated with said game(s).

*we hear about the occasional NFL player getting a DUI, or Tiger Woods' troubles with his wife, but the game's good image usually transcends this individual's behavior, and the fan base still remains intact, rather than the fans presuming that it's the norm for that sport.

On the other hand, if little Bobby sees Pool, Poker and Pain as his future lifelong career, then yes, by all means, Bobby needs a swift kick. But there is so much more to skill games, and billiards in particular, than pandering for money, but unfortunately the public is not being told or shown this.

Does the 'golf industry' lead you to believe that its all about getting drunk with your buddies, driving around in a mini-car and whacking a ball with a stick...hitting on the beer cart chick, then fibbing about how many strokes you had in the end?

Even though thats what many people do- thats not what golf promotes, and its not what you see on TV.

You want to improve the image? Then improve what the public actually sees and is told about the game(s), and improve the image(s) of the people involved.

When the public sees an industry in disarray*, chock full of money grubbers, swindlers and jerks.... well duh, nobody wants to condone that.

*can anyone even agree on a set of rules?

When the public is shown a 'shady' bar-room world full of hustling drifters with questionable integrity at best.... well duh, the public doesnt want little Bobby or Jane to waste their life on that.

Somebody mentioned the word "clean"....and thats pretty much it. Pool needs a bath and a good scrub behind the ears, then it needs to be taken back out to the masses, like unto golf, with some frikin integrity for once. As the old saying goes: build it and they will come.

Then, bring on the kids, and I assure you, within ten years time, the average champion's age will drop dramatically.

Teach kids that competition is healthy, and is a good way to measure your own skill, progress, patience and concentration.

Teach kids that striving to have the hand-eye coordination of a surgeon is admirable.

Teach kids that billiard games are excellent problem solving exercises which are healthy stimulation for the mind.

Teach kids that there is not a thing in the world "wrong" with playing pool.

Teach kids that it's the "other things" that people do, (just like in any other sport), that make pool players look bad.
But the games themselves are certainly not inherently evil. Thats silly.
 
Spot on Duckie.

The addiction comes from the person, not the game. Just because one gets addicted does not mean all will. So because some people have addictive personality, you want to keep the game from those that do not have that problem.

Video games do more harm than pool.

And so what if they do, it's really none of your business how someone leads their life and maybe they are getting a better education about life playing pool. You know, learning to make it on your own skills and judgement and learn to not always look to others for your answers.

You know that to get somewhere takes hard work, to makes things happen takes thinking ahead and planning.

This idea that pool has no good in it is the heart of what's wrong with pool not growing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
Get rid of the smoke.........

You don't see a golfer out there with a cigerette hanging out of his mouth.

If they do they don't even want it on a camera.

there are so many people that will not even go near a pool hall. Not just some of the old stigmas about drugs and trouble but they just don't want to stink and be unhealthy from breathing in the smoke.

Can't blame them either.

We have to start from the inside and out.

Smoking out all over would be a great and simple start.

They should have a Nationwide ban instead of State or City. The city ban is the one that destroys bars and pool halls.

The places with no smoking even look clean. Cleaner image. Better image.
 
You don't see a golfer out there with a cigerette hanging out of his mouth.

If they do they don't even want it on a camera.

there are so many people that will not even go near a pool hall. Not just some of the old stigmas about drugs and trouble but they just don't want to stink and be unhealthy from breathing in the smoke.

Can't blame them either.

We have to start from the inside and out.

Smoking out all over would be a great and simple start.

They should have a Nationwide ban instead of State or City. The city ban is the one that destroys bars and pool halls.

The places with no smoking even look clean. Cleaner image. Better image.

You think the problem with pool is smoking? :eek: There's no smoking in our pool halls, and if anything, it's hurt business even more.
 
You don't see a golfer out there with a cigerette hanging out of his mouth.

If they do they don't even want it on a camera.

there are so many people that will not even go near a pool hall. Not just some of the old stigmas about drugs and trouble but they just don't want to stink and be unhealthy from breathing in the smoke.

Can't blame them either.

We have to start from the inside and out.

Smoking out all over would be a great and simple start.

They should have a Nationwide ban instead of State or City. The city ban is the one that destroys bars and pool halls.

The places with no smoking even look clean. Cleaner image. Better image.

Uh, Gene, simply don't go to such places. Problem solved....no guns necessary. Now 300,000,000 Americans can keep just a teeny tiny bit more of their quickly-disappearing freedoms.

Jeff Livingston
 
I think I've said this before on another thread, but you can't make the improvements you wish from the top down. Change and improvement, in my view, should be made from the bottom up.
By that, I mean by organizing and promoting local pool tournaments.
By organizing and promoting youth pocket billiard progams in churches, Boys and Girls Clubs, and YMCAs.
By making Saturday mornings a kids day at the local pool room, with adult instruction and supervision.
By working to keep the pool rooms in your area from closing.
 
I think I've said this before on another thread, but you can't make the improvements you wish from the top down. Change and improvement, in my view, should be made from the bottom up.
By that, I mean by organizing and promoting local pool tournaments.
By organizing and promoting youth pocket billiard progams in churches, Boys and Girls Clubs, and YMCAs.
By making Saturday mornings a kids day at the local pool room, with adult instruction and supervision.
By working to keep the pool rooms in your area from closing.

There is so much power in what you say.

Plus, anyone of us can implement these things instantly without waiting to be saved by someone else outside of me.

Plus, any action taken to help pool is a small step in the right direction. This is better than sitting here arguing about what someone else out there should do.

The first step is dumping the idea that someone "out there" should, could, or will come to save the game and all I have to do is wait and support those efforts when they come and are proven. The time IS now and the Person IS me. I mean, really, how else could it be?

Jeff Livingston
 
naji...Well, thankfully, you've already been proven wrong, with both the programs that Earl Munson established in Dallas, and the program that mnorwood established in Houston. Gotta watch out for those really dangerous bowling alleys! LMAO Naturally, "Brown-nose Rick" would agree with you...

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Hi Scott,
Your opinion as an instructor is biased not an insult by any means; However, you are entitled to your own opinion, and i am too. I know i have kids and do not want them to come near the game until they are adults, i almost lost my future due to pool, until my best friend back in 1980 during final exams, i was indulged into the game addicted to it could not leave the college table, he told me, Naji, pool tables will always be there, but your future might not, leave pool for now and focus on task at hand, it made a lot of sense, i listened got my degree and was part of the work force, to date i will never forget my friend's advise. I have to admit it is taking time from my family, cannot leave it.
Pool wining tends to pump the adrenalin and therefore addictive naturally, kids at young age are easily moldable, and lack good judgment so please keep them away from it as serious camp. I am ok with family bonding over pool at home or recreation center, or clean pool halls.

Rick is great man, he says his opinion of which i respect as well as i respect yours.
 
I could not disagree more.
And in my weak un-educated opinion, what you have stated borders on ridiculous.

It's not about the game(s) at all, its all about context. The context in which the game(s) is introduced and promoted. And to a lesser but still relevant extent, the public role models* associated with said game(s).

*we hear about the occasional NFL player getting a DUI, or Tiger Woods' troubles with his wife, but the game's good image usually transcends this individual's behavior, and the fan base still remains intact, rather than the fans presuming that it's the norm for that sport.

On the other hand, if little Bobby sees Pool, Poker and Pain as his future lifelong career, then yes, by all means, Bobby needs a swift kick. But there is so much more to skill games, and billiards in particular, than pandering for money, but unfortunately the public is not being told or shown this.

Does the 'golf industry' lead you to believe that its all about getting drunk with your buddies, driving around in a mini-car and whacking a ball with a stick...hitting on the beer cart chick, then fibbing about how many strokes you had in the end?

Even though thats what many people do- thats not what golf promotes, and its not what you see on TV.

You want to improve the image? Then improve what the public actually sees and is told about the game(s), and improve the image(s) of the people involved.

When the public sees an industry in disarray*, chock full of money grubbers, swindlers and jerks.... well duh, nobody wants to condone that.

*can anyone even agree on a set of rules?

When the public is shown a 'shady' bar-room world full of hustling drifters with questionable integrity at best.... well duh, the public doesnt want little Bobby or Jane to waste their life on that.

Somebody mentioned the word "clean"....and thats pretty much it. Pool needs a bath and a good scrub behind the ears, then it needs to be taken back out to the masses, like unto golf, with some frikin integrity for once. As the old saying goes: build it and they will come.

Then, bring on the kids, and I assure you, within ten years time, the average champion's age will drop dramatically.

Teach kids that competition is healthy, and is a good way to measure your own skill, progress, patience and concentration.

Teach kids that striving to have the hand-eye coordination of a surgeon is admirable.

Teach kids that billiard games are excellent problem solving exercises which are healthy stimulation for the mind.

Teach kids that there is not a thing in the world "wrong" with playing pool.

Teach kids that it's the "other things" that people do, (just like in any other sport), that make pool players look bad.
But the games themselves are certainly not inherently evil. Thats silly.

It is about the game, pool winning is addictive i have been there done that, it has negative effect on those kids that indulge into it, and since there is no safeguard to prevent them from this, kids should not be put in camps to learn the game. Social gathering, family bonding at home pool, or community center is ok.
 
Hi Scott,
Your opinion as an instructor is biased not an insult by any means; However, you are entitled to your own opinion, and i am too. I know i have kids and do not want them to come near the game until they are adults, i almost lost my future due to pool, until my best friend back in 1980 during final exams, i was indulged into the game addicted to it could not leave the college table, he told me, Naji, pool tables will always be there, but your future might not, leave pool for now and focus on task at hand, it made a lot of sense, i listened got my degree and was part of the work force, to date i will never forget my friend's advise. I have to admit it is taking time from my family, cannot leave it.
Pool wining tends to pump the adrenalin and therefore addictive naturally, kids at young age are easily moldable, and lack good judgment so please keep them away from it as serious camp. I am ok with family bonding over pool at home or recreation center, or clean pool halls.

Rick is great man, he says his opinion of which i respect as well as i respect yours.

You're missing the problem, imho. The problem isn't pool per se, it is how to choose actions properly.

Everything you say about pool could be applied to any other activity, fishing, bowling, schooling even, bikes, trikes or dikes. None of those activities holds the power you attribute to pool and pool doesn't hold that power, either.

Learning to make happiness-directed choices, not the banning of pool playing or any other activity, is the solution to not getting caught up in bad habits.

Jeff Livingston
 
Hi Scott,
Your opinion as an instructor is biased not an insult by any means; However, you are entitled to your own opinion, and i am too. I know i have kids and do not want them to come near the game until they are adults, i almost lost my future due to pool, until my best friend back in 1980 during final exams, i was indulged into the game addicted to it could not leave the college table, he told me, Naji, pool tables will always be there, but your future might not, leave pool for now and focus on task at hand, it made a lot of sense, i listened got my degree and was part of the work force, to date i will never forget my friend's advise. I have to admit it is taking time from my family, cannot leave it.
Pool wining tends to pump the adrenalin and therefore addictive naturally, kids at young age are easily moldable, and lack good judgment so please keep them away from it as serious camp. I am ok with family bonding over pool at home or recreation center, or clean pool halls.

Rick is great man, he says his opinion of which i respect as well as i respect yours.

Thanks Mr. Naji.

'a great man'? I don't think so.

I may be a good man, but a great man, no, I don't think so.

But, I value your opinion as well.

Thanks Again & Best Regards,
 
"Battle at York Hall"

You're missing the problem, imho. The problem isn't pool per se, it is how to choose actions properly.

Everything you say about pool could be applied to any other activity, fishing, bowling, schooling even, bikes, trikes or dikes. None of those activities holds the power you attribute to pool and pool doesn't hold that power, either.

Learning to make happiness-directed choices, not the banning of pool playing or any other activity, is the solution to not getting caught up in bad habits.

Jeff Livingston

Yes, you're right, however the Mosconi Cup holds some power because of the team aspect.

Many love the aspect of the USA vs other countries too. And if you Like these things you're sure to like the rest of the "Battle at York Hall", and find out more at the team page.

The USA Mosconi Cup Team Page is Now up - Please "LIKE" it and follow the action leading to the Showdown at York Hall in London England December 10-13 , Shane VanBoening. Mike Dechaine, Brandon Shuff, Dennis Hatch, and Johnny Archer Lead the Charge with Team Captain CJ Wiley
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/USA-Mosconi-Cup-Team/303775566403140?ref=hl
 
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