How Do You Aim By Feel

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?
2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?
5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?
6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?
7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?
8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?
 
I think it means just 'by memory'. Like you have hit that same cut shot so many times, you just know how to hit it.
 
Koop,

I don't know if these are the answers you are looking for but here we go.

When I am in the zone, I can see the shot clearly before I get down on the shot. When I down on the shot and everything is lined up, I feel very comfortable and I am beyond thinking about whether I am going to pocket the ball.

On the flip side, say I adjust somehow to put me "off". When I get down on the ball, I get uncomfortable, like a little rock in your shoe. I also can see the ball miss before shooting it. What's scary is how accurate the miss is. That's when I try to get up and reset.

I don't think feel is an aiming process, I think feel is how comfortable with your aiming process.

I hope that helps.
 
I think it means just 'by memory'. Like you have hit that same cut shot so many times, you just know how to hit it.

Exactly! I play totally by feel, I've just hit balls so many times that I "feel" how to aim the shot. I don't consciously 'aim' exactly, I just see the object ball just know how to hit it. I don't have a point on the object ball I look at....it's hard to explain, I just know when the ball looks right when I'm ready to shoot.
 
1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?

I can only speak for myself. I'm sure there is some sort of scientific method out there that can determine commonalities but truthfully, "feel" is something you develop on your own.

2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?

I think, to a certain extent, merely speaking of its existence is teaching it. I'm very fond of the book "The Inner Game of Tennis" and if anything, reading that book gave me the confidence to go with my instincts.

3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?

Pool isn't geometrical, it's far more complicated than that. Creating mathematical formulas to determine a series of outcomes requires some serious knowledge in physics that go beyond my own comprehension. All I know is, geometry, as a subject, does not cover pool in its entirety.

4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?

No, the Wei diagrams only illustrate pool scenarios not mental thought.

5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?

It's not a system. It's a lack of a system. ALL aiming methods simply refer to hand-eye coordination (or cue-eye, or however you want to refer to it). It's simply how your brain deduces where to aim. All systems try to find a visual and explainable relationship between the cueball, object ball and pocket. "Feel Players" make an automatic judgement without using a deliberate method in doing so.

6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?

It develops in time. The philosophy behind it is, your instincts improve (become more sensitive) the more you exercise them. The APA3 may intuitively know how to hit the left side of the object ball while the APA7 will know how to hit a target 1/64th of an inch wide.

7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?

No. Brain activity has measureable differences day to day which can be influenced by mood, rest, health and many other things. In truth, there is no physical activity you can successfully mimic day to day, not one. Also, how frequently a shot occurs will influence your feel for it. If, for example, you shoot 7-foot straight in shots 100 times a week and 45 degree shots only 5 times a week, your feel for straight in shots will eventually be superior to your feel for 45 degree shots.

8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by "feel manipulation". Assuming you just mean "feel", I will say that you don't always know it's correct. Everyone misses from time to time. Also, it takes practice. It's like hitting a baseball (which is an incredibly reactive task). You have to be in-tune to expect an increase in positive results. There will be times when you believe you're aiming for the correct spot only to realize afterward you weren't. Pool has a wide variety of angles and some of those angles come up rarely enough that you may not have immediate familiarity with it.
 
With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?
2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?
5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?
6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?
7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?
8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

well i play totaly by feel an what i allso do is i go look at the ob an aim it to the pocket i wanna shoot it into an i find the ghost ball an shot line go back to my CB step into my shot i stroke 2-3 times then i SPF the shot or when im practicing certain shots i dont stroke at all just SPF i keep my eye on the ghost ball :thumbup:

allso i been playin for 13 years so am kinda Experience on how to position my body so its natural for me now
 
Conscious thoughts about the subconscious part of the game -- "the zone"

With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?
2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?
5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?
6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?
7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?
8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

Hey Koopster!

Hope things are well! To answer your question(s), I'll preface what I'm about to say by letting you know I'm a "feel" player that sees the ghostball clear as day -- have done so ever since I picked up a cue, and I later learned it was because I was "diagnosed" with great 3D perceptive visualization. (While still early in my U.S. Navy military stint, I took [and passed] all kinds of perceptive visualization tests as part of my application endeavors for officer candidate school, and then later to apply for Seal training. These perceptive visualization tests were some of the most difficult tests I'd ever taken.)

Having specified that preface, I will tell you that although I see the ghostball location ACCURATELY and plain as day, when I get down to shoot, I do shoot by feel. What I mean by that is that I don't "consciously aim" as if I'm aiming at a contact point on the object ball. No, I aim to replace the ghostball with the cue ball, and I'm "feeling" the object ball go into the pocket. I actually visualize the object ball making a bee-line into the pocket, and I simply aim the cue ball to "make that happen."

Here's my thoughts on aiming:

1. If you have to consciously aim, you've already missed the shot. It's just a matter of time before you pull that trigger to [mis]deliver the cue.

2. If you have to consciously aim, you *will* be engaging the wrong parts of your brain -- i.e. the conscious, analytical side. Shooting pool is an exercise of muscle memory and of unconscious thought. You've spent thousands of hours shooting probably that same shot that's right in front of you now. Why not tap into the muscle memory and unconscious "been there, done that, old hat" thought process you've built? If you engage the conscious analytical side, it's just a matter of time before you suffer "paralysis through analysis", and "analyze" your way into a missed shot. Most folks that do really well in practice, but stink up the place when in a pressure situation (or "when the shot counts," as in a match), fall into this precise scenario.

The subconscious mind is a POWERFUL instrument -- it stores knowledge and "how to do this" instructions in deep, far away recesses, that the conscious mind can't get to, and honestly, is not supposed to, either! That's what the subconscious mind is for. You don't think about such incredibly complex activities as accurately throwing a baseball or riding a bicycle, right?

Have you ever wondered how such incredible shot-making displays as this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eEZxTyByg8k

...are accomplished so effortlessly and without a hint of thought? In the above video, Ronnie's "in the zone" and isn't thinking about the shot-making at all -- those object balls have already been pocketed. He's just thinking of the end-result -- the "out" and the pattern to get there.

There's a lot of discussion in sports about "the zone" and how to get into it. In pool, it's the most rewarding phase to be in -- to effortless pocket balls and get position. That is what the sport is about. Not analyzing your way out of success (which a lot of these aiming systems are about -- i.e. replacing "the zone" with conscious thought that always second-guesses itself).

Hope that is helpful,
-Sean
 
One piece of infomration I forgot mention. I can't remember a single shot of a run when I am in the zone. Unless I record it, i'd be screwed if I needed to remember :)
 
One piece of infomration I forgot mention. I can't remember a single shot of a run when I am in the zone. Unless I record it, i'd be screwed if I needed to remember :)

Yup! I can play several racks in the zone and not remember a single ball of it.

On the topic of the thread, "aiming by feel" is a process of using your muscle memory and subconscious mind to aim. These are very powerful tools. Visualize the shot in as much detail as you can, as if you're watching a video. Imagine the path of the object ball and the cue ball. If it feels wrong, you'll know it.
 
... I see the ghostball location ACCURATELY and plain as day ... I aim to replace the ghostball with the cue ball, and I'm "feeling" the object ball go into the pocket.

Sean -- this doesn't really sound to me like aiming by feel. It sounds like prototypical ghost ball aiming. You see the ghost ball and aim the cue ball to take its place. You are also visualizing the OB going into the pocket, but the aiming of the CB is done in light of sighting the ghost ball.

To me, a "feel" aimer makes no use of a ghost ball, or contact points, or fractional aiming points on the object ball. He just senses the correct angle, kind of like -- "aim a little more left, ... a little more left, ... no, back to the right a bit, ... that's it, ... go."
 
With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?
2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?
3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?
4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?
5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?
6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?
7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?
8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

It's hard to nail down feel but imo it's experience. You can't walk up to a shot for the very first time and "feel" the right angle, though if you have unusually good spatial perception.. maybe you can, sort of. But what people call feel is probably just experience. Your eyes see those balls as two flat discs and they glance at the pocket, then your memory kicks in to a time when you had two similarly-sized and similarly-positioned discs.

1. No way to prove it, but I think almost everyone's brain works the same way in terms of those overlapping discs. Maybe not. They've found patterns in how a brain recognizes text, recognizes faces, recognizes chess patterns... why not an across-the-board pattern for recognizing when you're lined up right on a shot? Again, just a guess. I won't bet anything on it =)

2. Nope, it's experience. You could say it's taught... but it's self-taught.

3. If someone masters feel (by having made any given shot a thousand times and having a straight stoke) then the ball goes in the hole with very high accuracy. I guess you could say that it must be geometrically correct. But feel doesn't claim geometrical correctness and obviously can't be illustrated as such. It just claims results.

4. Nope, see above.

5. Nope. Not many systems can. Ghostball, I guess could.

6. My guess is it's similar across the board, but again no proof.

7. Nope.

8. You feel it. Haha, what a smartass answer. No, but seriously, that's how you know.
You just know you've reached that line of aim. Sometimes you just aren't sure, you only know you're in the ballpark but not positive you're on the exact line. That's true of anything though, otherwise nobody would miss a ball using ghostball.

If I read your post right, you're sort of saying... "people who criticise aiming systems are hypocritical because they expect the system to be diagrammable and geometrically correct. But those who don't use systems have the same shortcomings."

I don't know if feel is the ultimate 'system', but I will say that all other systems use it to an extent. So it may not be perfect but it's necessary.

It's not unfair to demand that [most] aiming systems be reproduceable on paper. The systems involve imaginary balls and lines, and there's no reason those imaginary lines can't be drawn as real lines on a wei table or diagram. For example I can draw a ghost ball from a top down view. If someone teaches me a quarter-ball system and says a 1/4th full hit is a 60 degree cut, I can draw the balls in a 3D program, measure 1/4th ball from the edge of the OB (shooter's perspective), then redraw the CB so it touches the OB while overlapping 1/4th of the edge. If the result puts my cue ball where the ghostball would go in a top down perspective, then the system works on paper.

Most of the feel proponents don't make any claims except that it works. Obviously if they wanna say it works better than everything else out there, that's one pretty bold claim. But it's not like a feel guy says "my system works on paper, why doesn't yours?"
 
when i feel it, i like to come up from behind and stand next to her and then slowly move my hand dow........whoa, whoa, wait i got it now not that kind of feel. my bad. and besides my girl's an apa 4 not a 3. :D
 
How I learned to play by feel

I set out to learn to aim by feel as it seems the best approach to me. The first useful piece of information came from UnknownPro. He said to aim with the cue tip. This makes sense to me along with the idea that pool is played with the back hand.

I set my self a training system in which at first I played nothing but straight in shots from various distances. I let my eye learn how to look through the center of the cue ball to the contact point and through the contact point to the back of the pocket. The idea was to use all of my concentration to “see” these non existent lines. After awhile my eye knew what to look for.

Next I placed the object ball at a 5 – 10 degree angle to the pocket and continued to practice seeing the lines and where the cue ball needed to make contact to pocket the ball.

Little by little and over several weeks of training I moved the ball further and further off the line to the pocket using many different distances to the pocket. I found that for a great many shots all I needed was to strike the contact point with the center of the cue ball.

As the object ball was moved further off the line to the back of the pocket I found that I needed to aim a little further left or right depending on the cut. In small increments my eye learned to adjust for what I needed to see and where to strike the object ball. Back cuts are a continuing problem that I work on.

After a few months of this type of practice I began to introduce various types of spin to learn what effect the spin had on moving the ball down the target line.

Six months later, and for the rest of my life, I will continue to learn how to see and feel that line the cue ball needs to roll down and what happens with various types of spin.

Once I learned to “feel” the aim lines based on shooting many thousands of shots I began working on cue ball control and found that while it is more difficult to estimate the roll distance, the angle of departure for the cue ball seems to be easily learned with the help of information from Dr Dave re the 30 degree rule and similar basic ideas.

Probably the simplest and easiest idea I have learned is to aim the center of the cue ball with the cue tip at the contact point and let my brain make the adjustments as needed. This is otherwise known as “feel.”

Of course all of this requires dedicated attention to a repeatable pre-shot routine and the placement of my eyes in the same place for every shot. RandyG (who posts here under that name) taught me how to establish a very repeatable pre-shot routine that works quite well for me.

Using this method I have gone from making four or five balls in 8-Ball to running two or three racks in 9-Ball and running two or more racks of 8-Ball a few times a week. I am no great player but my game has improved considerably using this approach.
 
To me, a "feel" aimer makes no use of a ghost ball, or contact points, or fractional aiming points on the object ball. He just senses the correct angle, kind of like -- "aim a little more left, ... a little more left, ... no, back to the right a bit, ... that's it, ... go."

Exactly. You get down on a shot and it doesn't seem right... you think... Ok, Im going to miss left (because I know), so you get up and adjust.

I learned some aiming systems but never felt like I had control over what I was doing. To me it was too systematic/unnatural and resulted in the same percentage of pocketed balls, possibly less.

Now, I've just got to the point where I see lines in my head and if I connect those lines and deliver a good stroke, the ball will go in. Similar to a ghostball thing, but mostly just drawing lines and a lot of feel.

I used to think I missed because I wasn't aiming right, now I realize I miss because I didn't hit what I was aiming at. I think THAT is the biggest problem thats overlooked in these threads.
 
Here are my opinions. They are worth what you paid for them


With all of the threads and posts about CTE and the way "Feel" comes into play
(subconscious adjustments) nobody has ever described how to aim by feel and why it's the best way to aim. Obviously many think it is the best way to aim because it eventually takes over at some point on ALL aiming systems including ghost ball. Here are some questions regarding it:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?

Probably not becasue different people learn in different ways.

2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?

Yes, I Taught in a university setting for 25 years and I am sure that I could teach others what I have leaarned.

3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?

I doubt that it is. It is based more on neurological principless of learning than on math.

4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?

The basic elements can be illustrated the brain learning is experiential.

5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?

I don't think so. It would require The Calculus and would require far too many variables with currently unknown parameters. Consider the idea that walking is controlled falling and we can do it so beautifully, yet we cannot program a robot to walk like we do. Playing pool is more difficult than walking !

6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?

That cannot be known. The basic principles are the same but the use of these principles would be different for different individuals.

7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?

Not in my case. It depends on many factors from emotions, ability to concentrate and my ability to exercise control over fine motor coordination. I suspect that with intense training one can level out many of these factors. The pros seems to have reached a plateau with regard to control

8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

In the same way that you knew you were not going to make that turn on your bike when you were a kid given the speed, road conditions, and prior crashes. With enough experience you know you probably won't make that shot because too much is required and the intuitive physics say that it is impossible.
 
This thread has more potential than any of the threads on aiming techniques. Pool is a game of TOUCH and FEEL, not geometry or mechanics! The best players rarely have to line up anything, they know how to hit the shot immediately. It is our subconscious mind at work, making all the calculations for us.

Have you ever kicked a stone down the street? As you are walking toward the stone, your subconscious mind calculates if you must alter your footsteps to line up properly for the next kick. Try it some time if you don't believe me.

Private Helfert - US Army 1966-1972. PFC to Spec 4 and back! :rolleyes:
 
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This is well thought out Koop - I'll try to convert you. :smile:

1. Is feel the same for all players in determining what to do and how to use it?

When a batter hits a 90 mph fast ball, or a golfer hit a 5 iron 200 yards in a 15 mph wind to within 3' of a cup, what aiming system do they use?

Maybe it's "feel" but I would call it "visualizing the shot". I don't think the term "feel" is accurate. I think it would best be described as "mentally seeing the shot", which is followed by summoning the stroke needed to accomplish it. Feel is part of the stroke.

2. Is feel transferrable from one player to the next and can it be taught?

Yes - if they have a repeatable stroke they can be shown which shots to practice to develop their visualzation techniques. Thin cuts and banks, for example, can be taught with no aiming at all, just visualization of the OB path.

3. How is feel geometrically correct over all other methods?

Mental visualization includes depth, speed, spin and other forces that affect the aim - even humidity. It is three dimensional taking into account the position of the rails and the other pockets. Since the OB is always locked onto the destination pocket, there are fewer choices. Other techniques are 2 dimensional so inherently would be limited.

4. Can feel be illustrated on a Wie table?

No, because the wei table is two dimensional and it doesn't give a player the correct perspective we are used to. Depth perception is needed to properly visualize a shot.

5. Can the exactness of feel be shown in an algebraic or mathmatical formula which seems to be the final word to validate a system?

I am not a math or physics whiz, but if it can physically be done, then I believe it can be mathematically proven. After reading the CTE thread and a few of the descriptions from the players who use it, I believe all players use similar visual cues (the edges and centers) to align. But to me that's still not total aim. Aim must add in depth perception, the players head position, speed, spin and the other forces that affect the shot -"mentally seeing the shot". I will add that playing on tight pockets requires more exactness and better visualization - playing on such a table develops sharpness.

6. Is feel the same for an APA3 or anything in between compared to a short stop or pro?


No. The better player will have much higher levels of precision. I saw Johnny Archer shoot between two balls that could have had as little as 1/8th inch of clearance - I couldn't believe he could do it. Now, that's visualization.

7. Is feel consistent and exact from one shot to the next or from one day to the next?


No - the conditions change. As pool players, it is up to us to adapt to different conditions and make adjustments. Climate, equipment, lighting, surroundings - all have an effect on the shot and we do adapt, some faster than others.


8. How do you know if your feel manipulation is correct or incorrect before taking the shot?

No way of knowing, but doing so and making a mistake is feedback for the next visualization. I will say, in fact, that if I can't visualize the shot properly, that is my first clue that something is amiss.

Chris
 
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I would say most 'feel' players have a backup. For example on clutch shots most snooker and pool players will check the contact point and then get down and shoot. But there is no visualization involved more like "this is a thick half ball hit right? Yup, thick half ball". You simply recognize each angle and from that you know what you can do with it based on a catalogue of experience.

It's amazing what you can do when you let your subconcious take over. I consider systems to be something akin to training wheels on bike, they get you started but it's when you take them off you can really get going.

But after playing for a long time I just don't see a need to re-establish an aiming point for every shot even though you've seen it so many times before. It's almost like a musician re-learning a chord everytime they learn a new song.
 
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