how do you guys feel about hustles and hustlers?

[alstl]

I don't recall that ever happening. I've clocked someone wrong before and lost money,but I never froze up money with someone I didn't know. I always played them by the game...pay after EACH game. Johnnyt

Exactly. How often do the people complaining about being hustled return the money when they win?

I haven't asked anybody to play for cash for many years. I get a table, start hitting balls by myself and if somebody asks me to play I may or may not accept. Even doing that I've heard garbage like "you were hiding your speed". I was hiding my speed when I was minding my own business hitting balls?

 

[FreeShot]

Ummmm.....Betting in most pool halls is not legal!

I don't think that's accurate. Most state gambling statutes apply to games of chance and not to contests of skill.

 

[vagabond]

Robbing a unsuspecting grand ma in pool is not acceptable. I will leave that to the Wall street Investment Brokers ( Wallstreet Thugs)

Every pool player knows about the prevalence of hustling in pool and hence it is a fair game to rob another pool player.

Gambling with a minor is wrong and it will be seen as contributing for the delinquency of a minor. Few decades ago I played a guy I thought he was an adult ( 19 and above ). when I learned that he was only 18, I returmed to him the money I won from him.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I don't think that's accurate. Most state gambling statutes apply to games of chance and not to contests of skill.

Most pool halls have "no gambling" signs up. Too many fights. I you were to win, say, 1000 bucks playing pool, are you going to claim it as income on your state taxes? Probably not. That's why some states make private gambling illegal.

 

[owll]

for the people that think 'hustling' is a good idea.....you should make sure the first score is a good win....me personally, if someone is trying to 'hustle' me, it will irritate me, I make it it a point to quit sooner than I normally would, then never play that person again regardless of offers of weight.....im probably not the only person that rolls like that.....I find 'hustling' to be insulting and aggravating, people that roll like that I refuse to give any action (they are probably 40 dollars away from broke anyway)

 

[JAM]

Little John is the a barking machine ... ITs fun

Heck yeah, Liljon definitely knows how to hold court with a barkfest, and he is a lot of fun.

Here's my top three barkers depicted below in this order: Keith, Shannon, and Liljon. Everybody had fun while it was in progress. Win or lose, each player was a gentleman at the end.

 

[Eric.]

Heck yeah, Liljon definitely knows how to hold court with a barkfest, and he is a lot of fun.

Here's my top three barkers depicted below in this order: Keith, Shannon, and Liljon. Everybody had fun while it was in progress. Win or lose, each player was a gentleman at the end.

Lemme play:

Pic 1- don't know the place, but I see the NYC crowd, Ginky, Nicky the kid. I forget the guy in the beard...

Pic 2- Derby at the Exec West, Keith has his "designated breaker" standing by...

Pic 3- Valley Forge, downstairs. I think this was the nite Keith broke up the action table by winning the last 11 racks?


Eric >did I win?

 

[JAM]

Lemme play:

Pic 1- don't know the place, but I see the NYC crowd, Ginky, Nicky the kid. I forget the guy in the beard...

Pic 2- Derby at the Exec West, Keith has his "designated breaker" standing by...

Pic 3- Valley Forge, downstairs. I think this was the nite Keith broke up the action table by winning the last 11 racks?


Eric >did I win?

Correctamundo on Pics 1 and 3. :grin-square:

Number two, I don't know who that big guy is, but it wasn't Keith's designated breaker.

This was right before Keith played Alex with the big ball on a bar table upstairs. The guy with his back to the camera is Shannon barking, trying to drum up more action. He suggested everybody post up $1,000 each and have a tournament. "Then we'll see who the best pool player in the land is," he said. Nobody uttered peep, and eveyrboyd had that deer-in-headlights look. Shannon then said, "It's so damn quiet in here now, you could hear a mouse peeing on a cotton ball." Then the entire crowd erupted in laughter. What a great show Shannon put on!

Amar Kang was in the background yelling, "I'll play anybody some 9-ball. I'll play anybody some 9-bal. I'll play anybody some 9-ball." His nostrils were wide open. He wanted to gamble, and he didn't care who it was.

Meanwhile, Keith's backer is in the tan leather jacket was trying to get the side bets right, so that Alex and Keith could begin the battle. Alex barbecued Keith in less than 30 minutes. The barkfest lasted about 3 hours. :grin:

You're right, though, in that it was at the Derby at the Executive West. Good eye! :wink:

Here's Big Jerry, Keith's designated breaker. Never leave home without him. :lmao:

 

[vagabond]

Correctamundo on Pics 1 and 3.

Meanwhile, Keith's backer is in the tan leather jacket was trying to get the side bets right, so that Alex and Keith could begin the battl

Tan Leather jacket guy had a pool room somewhere in Tennessee.

 

[JAM]

Tan Leather jacket guy had a pool room somewhere in Tennessee.

Yep, he sure did.

 

[JAM]

Tan Leather jacket guy had a pool room somewhere in Tennessee.

Here's a cute shot of Berle, Red, and Squirrel at the DCC.

 

[Ken_4fun]

JAM - JAY -

Jeannie -

Speaking of backers.

I think Jay used to back Keith some, did Keith have a regular backer or did he pick them up along the way?

No offense meant, but Buddy Hall had one guy that backed him all the time in Shreveport, and then David Matlock was supposed to have some oil guy backing him forever in Kansas.

Ken

 

[FreeShot]

Most pool halls have "no gambling" signs up. Too many fights. I you were to win, say, 1000 bucks playing pool, are you going to claim it as income on your state taxes? Probably not. That's why some states make private gambling illegal.

Again, though, gambling refers to games of chance. If not, then a pool tournament would be illegal, because it would be putting up money for a chance to win money. The difference is whether there is a skill element.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

With out greed a hustler would never be able to hustle.

 

[JAM]

JAM - JAY -

Jeannie -

Speaking of backers.

I think Jay used to back Keith some, did Keith have a regular backer or did he pick them up along the way?

No offense meant, but Buddy Hall had one guy that backed him all the time in Shreveport, and then David Matlock was supposed to have some oil guy backing him forever in Kansas.

Ken

Keith had plenty of backers, when needed. No offense, Ken, but there were times that Keith had plenty of dough and really didn't need a backer. Sometimes folks would line up and ask Keith if they could get in with him, becuase they liked his end of it.

There were times when Keith needed a backer to fund a tournament trip or a big stakes match after the touranment, and depending on what region of the country he was in, his backers were loyal to him. Henry Platis and Keith used to enjoy playing as partners, with Henry staking the games. They had fun together for many years. Jay Helfert also backed Keith many times. The two of them shared many experiences on the road and back home in California. There was Berle in Tennesse who loved Keith to death, would bet on him for however much Keith wanted.

Keith also had an uncanny ability to form a backers committee if he was on the shortskies. When we were at Turning Stone Casino, Keith wanted to throw the dice, but we weren't holding a lot of dough. So Keith did what Keith does best and formed a backers committee. Everybody put in $200. There were four or five of us, and Keith held the dice table for hours. The entire joint surrounded the table, including the casino men in suits. Nobody could believe it. Keith was holding court on that table. $15,000 later, we cut up the dough and everybody was happy for their $200 investment in Keith.

In fact, he played one guy a set for a big amount, with his backer guaranteeing the funds via telephone. IOW, the backer was not there. His opponent was okay with that.

Here's the Turning Stone Dice Table Backers Committee. As you can see, everybody was happy.

 

[richiebalto]

You cannot "fake your speed". You can play however you want to play and you don't owe anybody anything. There's no law saying you have to play "top speed" against every person you play for the rest of your life. You most certainly don't owe an explanation about the "speed" you really play. If a guy is willing to play an "unknown" for money then that's his problem.

Don't forget that the guy you're playing is trying to take your money. He's doing all he can to take it and you're obligated to do everything you can to take his. That's why they call it gambling.

Anyone who doesn't understand these things should leave their money in their wallet and probably shouldn't enter a poolroom. It ain't no church.

I rarely won against players I didn't know. Go figure. There are a couple of games that players can't hide their speed at (if you know anything) and it pays to play those games.

ONB

Great post for an old nine baller!
\
There is a such thing as a honest Hustler, one who will not try and cheat you out of games or fouls.

Nobody tries to match up with the worst of the game.(1 exception, when he is looking for a big score)

Some players are known to match up with the worst of the game (out run the nuts) and when a pool player does do this he is going after a big score.

It is well known that a lot of lock artists(pool players that wont play unless they got way the best of it) will go off big time when they know they have the best of it!

I made my best scores, out running the nuts!

I always tried to put my self in the position that I could win a lot more then I could lose, for instences , I would always try to gamble with a player that I knew I could win much more then I could lose.

When you get a lock artist stuck, most the time he will not quit until you bust him or he gets even!

 

[Straightpool_99]

..................

 

[JAM]

If by hustler you mean a player that misrepresent his speed, uses dirty trics etc to cheat low level players out of their hard earned cash, then my opinion is that they are SCUM. In my moral hierachy they rank barely above a pick pocket, only for the reason that you can avoid the hustler more easily. If you mean higher level players playing other players of comparable ability and trying to get ahead, negotiating spots etc- then I'm fairly indifferent. Robbing some stupid banger of his entire paycheck by suckering him into a crooked game is different from matching up with a fellow player who is equally knowledgable, especially if there is ridicule and intimidation involved. If the other player has some knowledge and is looking for action, then by all means: Go right ahead.

Just because someone may be skilled, and their exploits may be interesting to read about, it does not mean that they by definition are stellar human beings. Would you want such a person for a friend? How do you know he or she is not working some kind of long con on you? You also read about hustlers of the sleazy kind working other kinds of cons and rackets, like: Coin forging (read on Az), stealing from Car wash machines (read on Az), etc. Not the best kind of person to be hanging around IMHO, but of course opinions may vary. If you like to defend your friend who engages in this kind of behavior from the righteous anger of his or her victims, then be my guest, not my cup of tea though. I mean, I'm happy do defend any of my friends if they make a mistake, anyone can be tempted in the right circumstances and with the right kind of pressure and distress to do something they would not ordinarily do. I'd be hard pressed to defend them if they are found in a car with coins from dozens of vending machine robberies together with professional grade equipment for the job, however. It's a bit harder to explain how that kind of thing is "out of character". Also defending them would also involve a sincere effort on their part to make things right with their victim(s) and fans (if any), but that doesn't seem to be a priority in these cases..I wonder why?

They should all be emotionless robots playing mum pool like they do in Europe. Yep, that's a better path for pool.

 

[The Renfro]

They should all be emotionless robots playing mum pool like they do in Europe. Yep, that's a better path for pool.

Actually it might be... We know what the status quo has gotten us here in the states.. We are sucking hind tit to the asian and euro robots... Different times different dynamics... We have to adjust or we risk becoming even more irrelevant as the WPA has wished all along.....

 

[The Renfro]

JAM - JAY -

Jeannie -

Speaking of backers.

I think Jay used to back Keith some, did Keith have a regular backer or did he pick them up along the way?

No offense meant, but Buddy Hall had one guy that backed him all the time in Shreveport, and then David Matlock was supposed to have some oil guy backing him forever in Kansas.

Ken

Berle backed Keith for awhile... It would be upto Berle to splain how that ended up..... I hear Berle is kicking up his heals again tho and wouldn't surprise me to see him at derby this year... I have been seeing Sue sneaking around for at least the last 2 years.... Lots of great memories and stories but sadly none of them are shareable.....

Chris