How Fractional Aiming Systems Help
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
You definitely bash cte instructions, insane for you to deny that. But I was asking questions about your original post and you can't even decide if its feel or adjusting/estimating a person has to do.
Agreed. I, for one, have worked really hard to explain and illustrate how various versions of CTE actually work (see CTE evaluation and analysis). I have also worked hard to point out the many benefits systems like CTE provide to a user. I think threads like this, even though they have continued for so many years, are still helpful in increasing understanding and appreciation of these topics.
Regards,
Dave
You stuck on CTE too. Thread is about fractional aiming, any links for that?
Yes. Here is a complete resource page on the topic:
I think it addresses most of the pertinent discussion in this thread.
Enjoy,
Dave
This is what I do too. Visualizing the line the cue ball will roll, this becomes my cue stick aim line. On long shots, I focus on a midway point on the cue stick aim line and try to stroke the cue on that line. Key for me with this method is to focus on the cue stick aim line, not the OB. If I focus on the OB, I hit thick.
You clearly state that there are only 3 kinds of alignment: thick, thin and very thin. You only describe one way to aim for each of those (assuming the CB and OB are the same distance apart). So to make the thick cut shown on your diagram (copied below) and to make another thick cut with the CB/OB moved 18 inches farther from the pocket (but still the same distance apart), you'd use the same precise alignments and movements - and the OB would hit the rail 18 inches from the pocket.
Where are the specific instructions that tell you how to change your aim for these two shots? It isn't in the pivot because that only changes when CB/OB distance changes.
This is what is meant when people say that fractional systems don't define enough cut angles to make all shots.
No prob.
pj
chgo
If you move the CB/OB 18 inches from the pocket, the angle to the pocket will change (unless you move directly along the shot line.) The angle to the pocket, along with the distance between CB/OB determines the reference line you choose (what stan refers to visual intelligence, or shot recall.) There is no exact chart for every combination, as there are too many variables to list and may be different for each person anyways. With practice, you will be able to quickly and accurately choose the CTE lineup. I do mention what works for me on the instructions (where I switch from thick/thin/vthin), it may be similar for others, but I don't know to what degree. Everyone sees different.
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well when you pm'd me and i gave you a quick tip on how to pick up the visuals, which i find it amazing if you were not able too, after the tip i sent your way? Honestly you can make cte/pro1 work, using both eyes just as easily as letting one eye lead you into the offset pivot position. I also said to try and figure out a way to get it to work. why didn't you pm back or tell me have an eye issue and i would have explained this to you?
what you put in is what you get out .... its just that simple
Sigh... if we have this tired old conversation again I wouldn't blame our fellow AzBers for tarring and feathering us. Let's see if it goes anywhere new...
What you say above means there are only three cut angles needed to make every possible shot (to one side) with the CB/OB at a given distance apart. That's just (obviously) physically impossible.
pj
chgo
you keep complaining how vague the instructions are on the dvd in a number of posts you have made in this thread. We have herd this from you since the first time you received the dvd and how stan did such a piss poor job with the instructions but now you are using the word vague! you keep bringing up this feel thing again when i told 2 years ago there is feel involved in it. You constantly just rehash shit that has been answered in the past.
deleted post ........ i had to take this post out, there are now three different cte systems now being discussed in this thread plus lamas kind of cte system? 
apparently im the only one that understands them all and there differences and this will just end up in a mess.
apparently im the only one that understands them all and there differences and this will just end up in a mess.
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This is a good question, and an often asked one. Also a many-times-over answered one. Firstly, these are not cut angles, they are pre-pivot reference lines. That was already pointed out earlier in this thread (and I thought clear in the article?), and if you take it to the table you would quickly realize it for yourself. The actual cut angle will be determined post-pivot. Although the procedure (line up, slide in, pivot) is descriptively similar for each shot, they all have a unique visual. This can result in slightly differing post-pivot positions even for the same reference lines. I'm sorry I can't provide you with a mathematical formula how it works, all I can tell you is to give it an honest try. This is why you need to take the system to the table, you will answer most of your own questions.
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I just want repeat to be absolutely clear:
1) These are not cut angles or aim lines, they are pre-pivot reference lines.
2) The pre-pivot reference line is determined predominantly by the shot angle, and in some circumstances also the OB/CB distance (such as in shots closer than 1 diamond apart.)
3) the shot angle and the CB/OB distance both play a part in the shot visuals, which affect the entire procedure of line up, slide in, pivot.
You understand CTE/Pro, so you can if you want, explain it a bit more if you can or want.
The pre-pivot references lines get you to 1/8, A, B and C on the OB.
This gets one close to the aim line that sends the CB to impact the OB to go into the center of the pocket/target.
How do you get to the lines in betweeen 1/8 A, B and C?...pray tell...I want to know if it is visuals adjusting thick or thin or what else?
Understand that I didn't buy the CTE/Pro DVD.
Thanks in advance.
Where are the "prescriptive instructions" that get me from pre-pivot reference line to cut angle?
If I have to learn to complete the aiming process through practice and repetition, how is that different from learning to complete it by "feel"?
pj
chgo
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i thought i explained it, you didn't catch on???? he uses that 1/2 pivot system that spiderwebcom uses which is a very basic cte system. For that system to work you need a lot of feel throughout the system to make it work.
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I must have missed that explaination...can you repeat that post or direct me to the #?
Thanks in advance.
We will use full ball to ¾ ball hit to the left, just to keep things simple, i will not speak of any other shot. This is an A with a right-outside pivot. Now we will say at the ¾-ball hit your pivot changes and a difference reference line kicks in and i wont go there.
Now to make all your shots in between full and ¾ ball with the same A right pivot, you will always have a unique visual on every shot (different ctel and aim line)and that means you will be moving into the ball at a unique physical position on a different aiming line on every shot. I may have only one shot selection here, A-right outside pivot and some adjustments that I will add below, but I have tens of thousands of lead in’s to the shots because of the different cb/ob positions because my eyes will show me where to move in on every unique aiming line on every shot. Now this is a visual system where the eyes lead and the body follows. Now once i have done the visuals, lined up my lines and my body is in perfect position, i move in straight to the cue ball. This is the illusion how one specific set up can make all those different shots.
Now there will be situations that come up and you will need to manipulate the ctel and sometimes you will have to manipulate the edge to A line, change it to a 1/8.
you get it lamas? i hope you were not expecting me to put the system on here lol :thumbup:
I have tried to keep this all as simple as possible and also mohrt can you be specific when you talk about these systems because i feel your mixing them together and they are different.
Now to make all your shots in between full and ¾ ball with the same A right pivot, you will always have a unique visual on every shot (different ctel and aim line)and that means you will be moving into the ball at a unique physical position on a different aiming line on every shot. I may have only one shot selection here, A-right outside pivot and some adjustments that I will add below, but I have tens of thousands of lead in’s to the shots because of the different cb/ob positions because my eyes will show me where to move in on every unique aiming line on every shot. Now this is a visual system where the eyes lead and the body follows. Now once i have done the visuals, lined up my lines and my body is in perfect position, i move in straight to the cue ball. This is the illusion how one specific set up can make all those different shots.
Now there will be situations that come up and you will need to manipulate the ctel and sometimes you will have to manipulate the edge to A line, change it to a 1/8.
you get it lamas? i hope you were not expecting me to put the system on here lol :thumbup:
I have tried to keep this all as simple as possible and also mohrt can you be specific when you talk about these systems because i feel your mixing them together and they are different.
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