How good is your Defense???

Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Because you will need it to defeat a better player than you.

Do you look for safety patterns on each shot you take, or just when you don't have a shot?

Do you practice safeties?

Can you freeze the cue ball against a ball when shooting a safety or not?

Can you shoot out of a safety, and safety your opponent back?

I bet I practice something that one in a thousand might practice, and that is double kiss safeties. I am talking about a ball being close to the rail, and hitting it and it coming back off the rail to hit the cue ball, and sending it to a safe spot.

So discuss, and rate your defense, 1 being non-existent to 10 damn good.
 
i have watched enough pro's on youtube that i can now see a safety pretty good and give out some beauties when needed :)
 
My defense is typically good, like a 6 or 7, but tonight it sucked.
My offense wasn't very good either.
I did go 3-2 against a good team ,but I was two stupid shots away from 5-0.
For instance, one game all I had to do was miss the shot and play safe.
Instead I tried to make it and scratched..:scratchhead:.
Can't believe I went brain dead like that.
 
After playing One pocket nine ball for around ten years my safety play is strong, as is my "getting out of safeties" play. Thats not to say that I cant get better but certain games will teach you where your weak points are and Einstein nine AKA One pocket nine will speed up your safety play and banks.
 
Yikes!

Cuebuddy said:
After playing One pocket nine ball for around ten years my safety play is strong, as is my "getting out of safeties" play. Thats not to say that I cant get better but certain games will teach you where your weak points are and Einstein nine AKA One pocket nine will speed up your safety play and banks.
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I have a sudden feeling my defense isn't good enough! Gonna have to brush up on Einstein Nine before you get here. I had read about it before but must have confused it with something else, this ain't what I remembered.

While I think I understand what the OP means, you can't beat a better player on defense. A better player will eat your lunch when you go defensive. A better shotmaker isn't always a better player though. I do strongly agree when you play a defensive shot, it needs to be a strong defensive shot. Planned safeties that you knew you were going to play for several shots are usually much stronger than safeties that you are forced to play because the leave from the last shot left you with no offensive shot.

Hu
 
I'm a B player but as far as league play goes, I think I have above average defense. I do practice it everytime I practice pool, even if its just a few shots. I find that it helps my overall position play. So, overall I would say I'm a 6-7 at defense. I would say that more than half the time, I can freeze balls together or get damn close.

I notice that most league players don't think it's important, they think it's dirty, or they just don't know how to play a decent defense. Most would rather go for a 3 rail bank instead of lower themselves to play a solid simple defense. I can't count how many people I've beaten by employing just a little defense, wheter they were better than me or not.

R,

Greg
 
To learn strategy you need to play competition. Straight-Pool and 8-Ball are in my opinion more difficult *to understand and learn*. In 9b and 10b it s easier to play *perfect stratgey* just run out or stay out control is here the key.
In 8-ball you have to read the complete game if oyu come to the table. For excellent safety-play you need all: Knowlege like natural routes, cueball paths in all decisions, cueball control.

I agree here with the threadmaker- much too less players practice things like this. Especially in lower levels (i mean not pro) this is a great advantage that can save your ass.

lg
Ingo
 
Snapshot9 said:
I bet I practice something that one in a thousand might practice, and that is double kiss safeties. I am talking about a ball being close to the rail, and hitting it and it coming back off the rail to hit the cue ball, and sending it to a safe spot.

So discuss, and rate your defense, 1 being non-existent to 10 damn good.
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I love this shot. I actually first pulled it off completely by accident during a tournament, there were three balls jammed up on a rail (barbox 8 ball) and my ball was sandwiched between my opponent's two. I didn't have a good breakout shot but the 8 was real close and those two balls were his last... i hit my ball off the rail, double kissed the cue ball right behind the 8 and hooked him. He tried to kick long rail and hit his ball but missed the combo... I got out.

Anyways yeah since then I've tried to work on my double kisses a lot (mainly for the dual functionality it can provide... i.e. open up a sandwiched ball while still leaving the CB in a tough spot). I'd say my safety game is probably around a 4 on average (the past week though I've been playing some jam-up safeties and gotten some beautiful wins thanks to defence). I know how to duck and I can pretty much hit any straight forward "roll up behind this ball" safe. I do try to freeze the CB (because on a barbox, it's damn near impossible to get completely "safe" so all you can do is make your opponent's shot as tough as possible... I've played some safeties that look like they require a helicopter to get out of and seen a B player still kick multiple rails to escape) but I'd say my success rate is maybe 10% for getting entirely frozen :(

I certainly practice general safeties though. First I throw all 15 balls on the table, then elect one suit and try to lock up the other. Then I'll remove a few balls and try to play safes on say, solids with 2 solids and 7 stripes on the table (basically situations where you have few balls to duck behind and your opponent has a ton of options to blast at... perfect opportunity to practice those freezes because that's basically the only moderately "safe" option!).

I'm very weak at counter-safeties. That's definitely going on my list of things to work on.
 
My defenses is much better than my shooting. I have great cueball control and play safeties while setting myself up for a run out then when the opponet makes a mistake I make my move.

I practice safeties simply by practicing various forums of cueball control.
 
Don't They Say, the Best Offense is a good defense? Hmm.. I think the OP might be wrong when he says that the best player is the one who is getting safety'd, I really feel like the best player is the player that takes his time and knows how to use the situation and layout of the table to his advantage. If someone is running down the table in 8 ball, and they miss a shot or two, and you have some locked up balls, the best bet is to make a few shots, and if you don't have a good breakout ball, break it out with a well placed safety.. In a race to x "usually" the better player will prevail.

Which brings me to my next point.. Don't you just hate when you safe someone perfectly, and they intentionally foul, and push one of your balls into the 8 ball, or lock it up so that you are screwed and cant get out.. Those are the people that upset me, lol
 
I think my safety play if well above avg (for the caliber of player that I am). Although, the first shot I saw in a match was a kick shot. I returned the safe(or so I thought) with the ob ball on the opposite side of the table and stuck behind a blocker. But, he just kicked it in the side 2 rails:o
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
Don't They Say, the Best Offense is a good defense? Hmm.. I think the OP might be wrong when he says that the best player is the one who is getting safety'd, I really feel like the best player is the player that takes his time and knows how to use the situation and layout of the table to his advantage. If someone is running down the table in 8 ball, and they miss a shot or two, and you have some locked up balls, the best bet is to make a few shots, and if you don't have a good breakout ball, break it out with a well placed safety.. In a race to x "usually" the better player will prevail.

Which brings me to my next point.. Don't you just hate when you safe someone perfectly, and they intentionally foul, and push one of your balls into the 8 ball, or lock it up so that you are screwed and cant get out.. Those are the people that upset me, lol
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Um...no. You have it backwards. The best defense is a good offense. In pool, this means the best possible defense you can play, is the one that keeps your opponent in his seat--aka run out.
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
Don't They Say, the Best Offense is a good defense? Hmm.. I think the OP might be wrong when he says that the best player is the one who is getting safety'd, I really feel like the best player is the player that takes his time and knows how to use the situation and layout of the table to his advantage. If someone is running down the table in 8 ball, and they miss a shot or two, and you have some locked up balls, the best bet is to make a few shots, and if you don't have a good breakout ball, break it out with a well placed safety.. In a race to x "usually" the better player will prevail.

Which brings me to my next point.. Don't you just hate when you safe someone perfectly, and they intentionally foul, and push one of your balls into the 8 ball, or lock it up so that you are screwed and cant get out.. Those are the people that upset me, lol
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It's part of the game. If they know it upsets you, they will do it even more.
I would.:smile: In that instance you must turn it to your advantage by taking off only the balls you need to return another safe on him that is almost impossible for him to do it again. He can only do that trick so many times before HE screws up. Learn to love that challenge. :smile:
 
Snapshot9 said:
...I bet I practice something that one in a thousand might practice, and that is double kiss safeties. I am talking about a ball being close to the rail, and hitting it and it coming back off the rail to hit the cue ball, and sending it to a safe spot.

od.
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It is good to know as much as you can about moving balls.
 
LoVe4DaGaMe said:
... Don't you just hate when you safe someone perfectly, and they intentionally foul, and push one of your balls into the 8 ball, or lock it up so that you are screwed and cant get out.. Those are the people that upset me, lol
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Keep LOL'n. If that is the best they can do then you laid down a good one. Perhaps defined as 'jam up';)

If they beat you from there then you got out-thought but don't fret. AZB said dum pepil play better than smart ones anyway, fugit.
 
If I can marry em and bury em against a ball , even if I have an out I might do it. I have learned to appreciate three fouling. Fighting your way out of a tough spot is always rewarding on its own. Defense in this game is offensive..to some
 
Not being the greatest shotmaker in the world, when I come to the table and immediately I don't care for the shot (or options of shots), I look for a safety that has a higher percentage of working. If there is not a good safety option then I look for a two-way option on the shot I'm gonna take (if it's considered a low percentage shot by me).

I play a fair amount of safeties. How many obviously depends on the situation, and also depends on the skill level of the person I am playing. I may take a "flyer" at a tough shot if I know my opponent isn't likely to get out anyways.

I do practice safeties. I may shoot one trying to lock myself up when I'm practicing against an imaginary player (8-ball or rotation, I'm being BOTH players). Then I have the opportunity to try to kick out of it. So in essence, I'm practicing both safety play and kicking.

I'd rate my safety play at about a 5 on fast tables, 6 or maybe even 7 on slower cloth. I see safeties my teammates wouldn't see in a million years.

Maniac
 
Better player?

Snapshot9 said:
Because you will need it to defeat a better player than you.

Do you look for safety patterns on each shot you take, or just when you don't have a shot?

Do you practice safeties?

Can you freeze the cue ball against a ball when shooting a safety or not?

Can you shoot out of a safety, and safety your opponent back?

I bet I practice something that one in a thousand might practice, and that is double kiss safeties. I am talking about a ball being close to the rail, and hitting it and it coming back off the rail to hit the cue ball, and sending it to a safe spot.

So discuss, and rate your defense, 1 being non-existent to 10 damn good.
Click to expand...

If you consistently defeat someone, they are not a "better player" than you. I think by better player, you may mean better OFFENSIVE shot maker.

As an instructor my specialties have been cue ball control and defensive play. I teach fifteen varieties of safety shots just in 8-ball. Over the years I've defeated a rather large number of players who were considered better "shot makers" than I, but this refers only to offensive shots. Safeties are shots, too.

Now that my playing days are pretty much over, I enjoy teaching others, and some of them actually take my advice and improve their games dramatically. Others do not, as they haven't seen me win much in the past few years, and want to get lessons from people who run racks. Their loss.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
Donny Lutz said:
As an instructor my specialties have been cue ball control and defensive play. I teach fifteen varieties of safety shots just in 8-ball. Over the years I've defeated a rather large number of players who were considered better "shot makers" than I, but this refers only to offensive shots. Safeties are shots, too.
Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Click to expand...

There IS something to be said on the strength of a well executed safety. BIH is a powerful tool in the games of pocket billiards. POWERFUL!!!

Maniac
 
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