How good was Jimmy Mataya in his prime? Should he be in the HOF?

It's always 'Amazing' to me when I see people that post their 'Uneducated' opinions on Players that Really gambled 'Tough' action at Cue games!

If they couldn't correctly 'Handicap/lost a measly Bet' in a match, it's a Dump!

Professional 'Cry Babies' is all they are!

What's amazing, these same, 'Knockers' couldn't run 3 balls in rotation with CB in hand!

I'm also in the camp that, 'According to the era/tournament wins against Top players' He wouldn't qualify.

But, He is no less deserving than any player that is in the 'Action Award' HOF!
 
He was NOT a good enough "player". That is indisputable. His tournament record stands nowhere close to HOF status. The monsters in the HOF (and quite a few of them who never got in) would have spotted him the 7 easily, and beat him all day long. Louie Roberts, the guy the Action Award at DCC is named for, would have beat Jimmy like a drum. And Louie couldn't beat Buddy Hall. And Buddy Hall in his prime probably couldn't have gotten there against the vast majority of the players making it into the HOF today.
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!:eek:
jmho
 
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!!!!:eek:
jmho
Have you actually seen the buckets they were playing on in those days? Buddy's fundamentals were not as good as modern players. The bigger pockets allowed him to get away with it. The slow cloth kept people from just running out for days, even with the bigger pockets, making the game of 9 ball more strategic in nature. Buddy missed balls here and there due to fundamentals, but the slow cloth made it much harder for the opponent to take advantage.

Yes, I am dead serious. Earl Strickland always had better fundamentals. And Earl in his prime would have hung with today's monsters just fine based on fundamentals, if he curbed his tendency to shoot at everything and refined his percentage play a bit.. Buddy would not. Mike Sigel was the same way. Both of them would have had to shore up fundamentals to play with the players of today.

Granted.. All things being equal, players of today would have a serious adjustment period to learn the intricacies of playing on slow cloth. But they are bringing better fundamentals, and a much more refined set of safety/kicking skills. Plus, every modern HOF player plays position just as good as Buddy ever did. But prime Buddy would have a serious disadvantage moving to modern equipment, as any minor mistake comes with SERIOUS punishment. And most of those mistakes come from fundamental flaws.

If you are doubting what I say... Check out this match, that is as close as we are going to get to Buddy Hall's prime, as he was still under the age of 40... He chicken-wings the 5-6 combo, follows it up with a poorly hit position to the 7 (because his game is overly focused on "babying" the ball to open up the pockets to compensate for the stroke flaws..), followed up by chicken-winging the 7 ball. And check out the butchered 9 ball at 1:36:55. Spit right out of the pocket due to chicken-winging the shot, but ends up slopping it in the side. This was 2 years after he earned $85,000 in 1982, so these are his prime tournament years. He's leading Rempe 5-1 at this point, which just goes to show how much weaker the competition was than modern players face, plus how much easier the equipment was.

He made all the balls.. But those sort of flaws REALLY hurt you on either fast cloth.. Or tight pockets. Modern players simply cannot afford the stroke flaws you see in the video. So.. My statement stands. A prime Buddy Hall would need to do serious work on his stroke to compete with modern HOFers.

A telling stat from the video.. "Misses per 100 balls for Buddy Hall?" 6.7% That is a MASSIVE amount, as compared to modern players, and especially considering the equipment this tournament was played on.

(Start at 1:08:00)
 
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Have you actually seen the buckets they were playing on in those days? Buddy's fundamentals were not as good as modern players. The bigger pockets allowed him to get away with it. The slow cloth kept people from just running out for days, even with the bigger pockets, making the game of 9 ball more strategic in nature. Buddy missed balls here and there due to fundamentals, but the slow cloth made it much harder for the opponent to take advantage.

Yes, I am dead serious. Earl Strickland always had better fundamentals. And Earl in his prime would have hung with today's monsters just fine based on fundamentals, if he curbed his tendency to shoot at everything and refined his percentage play a bit.. Buddy would not. Mike Sigel was the same way. Both of them would have had to shore up fundamentals to play with the players of today.

Granted.. All things being equal, players of today would have a serious adjustment period to learn the intricacies of playing on slow cloth. But they are bringing better fundamentals, and a much more refined set of safety/kicking skills. Plus, every modern HOF player plays position just as good as Buddy ever did. But prime Buddy would have a serious disadvantage moving to modern equipment, as any minor mistake comes with SERIOUS punishment. And most of those mistakes come from fundamental flaws.

If you are doubting what I say... Check out this match, that is as close as we are going to get to Buddy Hall's prime, as he was still under the age of 40... He chicken-wings the 5-6 combo, follows it up with a poorly hit position to the 7 (because his game is overly focused on "babying" the ball to open up the pockets to compensate for the stroke flaws..), followed up by chicken-winging the 7 ball. And check out the butchered 9 ball at 1:36:55. Spit right out of the pocket due to chicken-winging the shot, but ends up slopping it in the side. This was 2 years after he earned $85,000 in 1982, so these are his prime tournament years. He's leading Rempe 5-1 at this point, which just goes to show how much weaker the competition was than modern players face, plus how much easier the equipment was.

He made all the balls.. But those sort of flaws REALLY hurt you on either fast cloth.. Or tight pockets. Modern players simply cannot afford the stroke flaws you see in the video. So.. My statement stands. A prime Buddy Hall would need to do serious work on his stroke to compete with modern HOFers.

A telling stat from the video.. "Misses per 100 balls for Buddy Hall?" 6.7% That is a MASSIVE amount, as compared to modern players, and especially considering the equipment this tournament was played on.

(Start at 1:08:00)
argument meme 2.png
 
I have always been amazed at cats who roll into a place and begin acting like the cock of the walk before they ever catch the lay of the land. I've watched dogs enough to know that the smart ones figure out who all is in the yard before they commence to run their yaps and scratch up grass.
 
Have you actually seen the buckets they were playing on in those days? Buddy's fundamentals were not as good as modern players. The bigger pockets allowed him to get away with it. The slow cloth kept people from just running out for days, even with the bigger pockets, making the game of 9 ball more strategic in nature. Buddy missed balls here and there due to fundamentals, but the slow cloth made it much harder for the opponent to take advantage.

Yes, I am dead serious. Earl Strickland always had better fundamentals. And Earl in his prime would have hung with today's monsters just fine based on fundamentals, if he curbed his tendency to shoot at everything and refined his percentage play a bit.. Buddy would not. Mike Sigel was the same way. Both of them would have had to shore up fundamentals to play with the players of today.

Granted.. All things being equal, players of today would have a serious adjustment period to learn the intricacies of playing on slow cloth. But they are bringing better fundamentals, and a much more refined set of safety/kicking skills. Plus, every modern HOF player plays position just as good as Buddy ever did. But prime Buddy would have a serious disadvantage moving to modern equipment, as any minor mistake comes with SERIOUS punishment. And most of those mistakes come from fundamental flaws.

If you are doubting what I say... Check out this match, that is as close as we are going to get to Buddy Hall's prime, as he was still under the age of 40... He chicken-wings the 5-6 combo, follows it up with a poorly hit position to the 7 (because his game is overly focused on "babying" the ball to open up the pockets to compensate for the stroke flaws..), followed up by chicken-winging the 7 ball. And check out the butchered 9 ball at 1:36:55. Spit right out of the pocket due to chicken-winging the shot, but ends up slopping it in the side. This was 2 years after he earned $85,000 in 1982, so these are his prime tournament years. He's leading Rempe 5-1 at this point, which just goes to show how much weaker the competition was than modern players face, plus how much easier the equipment was.

He made all the balls.. But those sort of flaws REALLY hurt you on either fast cloth.. Or tight pockets. Modern players simply cannot afford the stroke flaws you see in the video. So.. My statement stands. A prime Buddy Hall would need to do serious work on his stroke to compete with modern HOFers.

A telling stat from the video.. "Misses per 100 balls for Buddy Hall?" 6.7% That is a MASSIVE amount, as compared to modern players, and especially considering the equipment this tournament was played on.

(Start at 1:08:00)
I really never comment anymore, but this post is just baffling. Totally different equipment. Buddy Hall was one of the GREATEST players of any era. Beat them all, tournaments and for the cash.
 
Not sure if this is s relevant variable to consider but I consider the 70s and early 80s as the darkest age for pool. Jimmy and others were playing without much of a monetary incentive to do so in tournaments. I watched an interview he gave about how much of a bleak dank place the rack was and what kind of grind it was to make a living gambling. How much more could his talent been developed with better conditions? Guess that doesn’t matter and will be filed under no one will ever know.
 
do you think old time players that were great with strong strokes needed on the slow cloths would be at a disadvantage to those going back in time from now who have short compact soft strokes.

and would they be better going forward and adjusting, better than those going back with weaker strokes.

why would anyone think that a great player from 30 or 40 years ago would not be able to compete or beat today's players after he had a period of adjustment and practice.
 
i was there in those days. i knew jimmy somewhat. he helped push my car after it ran out of gas. had no choice he didnt want to walk.
billy steered it.

jimmy was a showman for sure but played when into it as good as anyone but not as consistent so couldn't beat regularly the very top players of the time. and why bother they were not where the money was. certainly he was not a 2nd tier player.
pool players like many are jealous of those that get more attention or fanfare. well he got lots of both.
look how many hate earl. yet he draws a crowd.
and to be sure everyone that was into pool knew of him and his exploits.
yes he gambled on everything as most did then and the best still do to an extent. if you hate gambling because you have no balls to bet on yourself you will hate many. if you just dont gamble thats okay, but dont hate those that do.
 
Vivian Villareal is the one player that has has been unjustly placed in the Hall of Fame currently, the titles speak for themselves, hopefully the next set of ballot votes would acknowledge her career achievements.

What are you trying to say here?? She should or shouldn't be in? She won a ton of events in her days pre-Allison. Too bad she vaporized any respect she had built up by fkng people out of their money in that bullshit scam tournament.
 
the proof is in the pudding as they say.

absolutely no one would go down and play buddy in his prime that had any brains. and no one with any brains could possible say he was not one of the very best players that ever lived throughout all history of pool.

of course you can always make a case for someone to be better than another. and some would be. but few if any during his rein would come down and bet thousands of their own money and play him.

plus he has stood the test of time.
 
What are you trying to say here?? She should or shouldn't be in? She won a ton of events in her days pre-Allison. Too bad she vaporized any respect she had built up by fkng people out of their money in that bullshit scam tournament.
Ohhh maybe that's why she hasn't been inducted yet, personality wise. Bit like the way it took Earl a long time to be inducted.
 
... Bit like the way it took Earl a long time to be inducted.
I wondered about that so I looked up the people who were voted in ahead of Earl after he became eligible (age 40) in 2001.

Jim Rempe
LoreeJon
Efren Reyes
Ed Kelly
Ewa Laurance
Robin Bell Dodson

Yup, should have been inducted earlier, but Earl dumped on a lot of people. Great player, and that is what should determine whether someone gets in or not, but people are people and sometimes they remember.

(Ed Kelly may have been in the "veteran player" category, and so may not have been in direct competition for "greatest player" category. I deleted several other inductees that were in other categories.)
 
He's a one-off. He got in for promoting the game as he was the most well known name/showman in the game. No way anyone's ever gonna compare Mataya with Fats in this regard. Look, i liked Jim but his schtick could get old pretty quick. I had friends in Vegas when he was out there and they said no one could stand the guy. Loud, drunk mouth cannon a lot. He had his day playing but he's not a HOF candidate. I'm not gonna play ping-pong with posts over this. If you like the guy great but don't get your hopes up over this, Out..............................................
We all wanted to tap his old lady.😉
 
Made the score of a lifetime and pissed it away. Once a hustler . . .
Did you ever live with her? That can change a persons perspective pretty quick. I' don't know her, she may be a wonderful human being and probably is, but I heard a comedian once that said , No matter how beautiful , sexy, hot and amazing a woman is , there is a guy somewhere, that is sick to death of her shit! lol, I believe that.
 
The talk about Buddy made me do a little looking. I found this old thread. Great posters in it including Keith McCready. Happened he had breakfast with Buddy and got as definitive an answer as could be had. Memories aren't always perfect, most of the gambling is just chopping wood. You can't tell somebody what you did on the job one day ten years ago. I used to listen to racing stories. Great stories but not quite the way things happened. I was the "hero" of the stories and would have remembered!

The link. Well worth the read I believe. Great posters and great stories!

 
gar - but didnt he play in an era where people didnt try to accumulate the world titles in order to save their gambling? So is that really fair to judge his resume relative to people today? Someone like Billy Incardona is another example. He doesnt have world titles but he certainly played the highest level 9 ball in his prime.. right?
If there is a legitimate hall of fame there’s numerous players from the 60’s 70’s and 80’s that should be honorable mention! Mataya being one of them! He was a solid niner and 14-1 player. There was also great Niners and one holers back in the day that didn’t play 14-1.

Cole Dickson was a great niner but was never the best. He could play very good 14-1 but he didn’t care for the game. Cole would be one of those honorable mention players and should never be forgotten!

Incardona was a great niner, better than Mataya and should be honorable mention! There wasn’t but a few tournaments back in the day and didn’t pay well! Some players just played in a division or two to make walking money.

All the old pool hustlers should have a hall of fame story so they won’t be forgotten! I beat Ronnie Allen in the All around in 1970 but he was an ass hole but he’s in the one pocket hall of fame and should be, he was the best!’ But he was a classless ass hole his whole career. I never said a word in the three matches I played him in the All around and he wouldn’t shake my hand and he cussed me the final match but I forgive him!

I would love to see a hustlers division of the hall of fame to remember the old Guns!
 
I really never comment anymore, but this post is just baffling. Totally different equipment. Buddy Hall was one of the GREATEST players of any era. Beat them all, tournaments and for the cash.
Can’t be that good. That match against Mike LeBron was some of the worst pool I’ve ever seen.
 
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