How good was Jimmy Mataya in his prime? Should he be in the HOF?

I think with the amount of his tournament wins, dating back to the mid sixties, Mataya should rightly be considered for the HOF. But given the hacks that do the selecting I won't hold my breath. It's a disgrace that it took so long for Parica to finally make it. Could gambling be a criteria for entrance? If not it's beyond me why it took so long for Jose to make it.
 
the hof fame must have some definite guidelines before a person can get in. they just need to follow them.
if he fits into them then he can be a possibility. if their guidelines are just subjective then it is just a political thing and becomes worthless.
 
maha said:
the hof fame must have some definite guidelines before a person can get in. they just need to follow them.
if he fits into them then he can be a possibility. if their guidelines are just subjective then it is just a political thing and becomes worthless.
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There is no HOF in any sport where the guidelines are not subjective. This is the guidelines for the NFL: A player and coach must have last played or coached at least five seasons before he can be considered, and players must have received at least one generally recognized postseason honor. (All-Pro team, Pro Bowl invitation, annual award from The Associated Press, as examples.)

You can’t get much more subjective than that.
 
thats the point then it just becomes what the group or persons at that present time decide to put what person in according to their wishes.
so its political.
 
As a fellow Lansing, MI resident I take great pride seeing this on the wall of a local bar.
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He was 100% a Michigan hall of famer. But for the US or World? Maybe for meritorious service. In the best player category, I'm not sure he stacks up to his contemporaries. I'm a person that only weighs demonstrable tournament winnings. I don't weigh the rumors of gambling prowess unless we're talking verifiable accomplishments like a SVB vs. Orcullo race to 100. Not the hearsay of yesterday. If he wanted to be HOF member, he really needed to be an Efren, Archer, Sigel, Hall, Strickland, Mizerak, etc. It seems clear to me he was not. And I say that as an admirer.
 
MattPoland said:
As a fellow Lansing, MI resident I take great pride seeing this on the wall of a local bar.
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He was 100% a Michigan hall of famer. But for the US or World? Maybe for meritorious service. In the best player category, I'm not sure he stacks up to his contemporaries. I'm a person that only weighs demonstrable tournament winnings. I don't weigh the rumors of gambling prowess unless we're talking verifiable accomplishments like a SVB vs. Orcullo race to 100. Not the hearsay of yesterday. If he wanted to be HOF member, he really needed to be an Efren, Archer, Sigel, Hall, Strickland, Mizerak, etc. It seems clear to me he was not. And I say that as an admirer.
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The BCA Hall of Fame seems to favor tournament soldiers, those with many titles under their belts, for the player category. For the meritorious category, though, I can see Jimmy Mataya nominated for that. I did some research on Jimmy for a Wikipedia page, and in doing so, I was amazed at how many films he had cameo appearances in as the "pool player."

He was a real treasure to be around, anybody who got to sit down with him and chat. In Vegas at an IPT event, Shawn Putnam saw Jimmy having dinner with me and my other half at a restaurant in The Venetian. It was The Jimmy Mataya Show. Keith and I were laughing nonstop at Jimmy's stories, one of which was a recent 14.1 tournament he played in where the roof was leaking water on his table. To hear Jimmy tell the story, it was hilarious. Shawn Putnam pulled me aside and asked if I would introduce him to Jimmy. That's how much respect Jimmy Mataya garnered form his peers.

As an aside, I noticed in the Reyes Cup, Scott Frost had a label under him that said "Billiards Hall of Fame 2019." This is actually his OnePocket.org Hall of Fame designation for his "Outstanding Contribution to the Legacy of the Game of One Pocket."

Hall of Fame titles are very meaningful to those who devoted their lives to the game of pool. I'd like to see Jimmy get in the BCA Hall of Fame, and if not, he'd be a shoe-in, in my opinion, for the Lifetime Action category in the OnePocket.org Hall of Fame.

A Jimmy Mataya tale I heard not so long ago was that he enjoyed games of stake as well as sports betting. Before the football season or baseball season (can't remember), he bet a nice amount on a long shot that was 50 to 1, and he won. He used the winnings towards purchasing a home. It was a big amount.


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IPT-NA Venetian in Vegas 102.JPG
 
maha said:
thats the point then it just becomes what the group or persons at that present time decide to put what person in according to their wishes.
so its political.
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Then what are your guidelines? I’m not arguing for or against Jimmy but I’d like to know what hard and fast rules or guidelines would look like because you can look at all the players already in the HOF and try coming up with a criteria that would enable all of them to fit in that box. Or better yet come up with one and see how many HOFers would be outside that box. In life there’s always going to be gray area… it’s never going to be perfect. Even when you have hard and fast rules people will find a way to manipulate or interpret to their benefit. Politics come into play whenever people are involved. There’s no way around it. Even when you have former players voting… what’s their agenda? Maybe they’ve earned the right but don’t think their vote doesn’t always come with an agenda, biases, or professional jealousies. That goes for the whoever’s on the voting board. In most cases people can come to a consensus but there’s always going to be the Jimmy Matayas, the Micheal Coopers, & Pete Roses that not everyone agrees on. Ask five NBA HOFers to pick their top five of all time. There’s no consensus.

I love the game. All aspects of it including the gambling, which to me is part of the rich history and legacy of this great game in this country. It’s Americana. It’s the “Wild Wild West!”

Like I said in an earlier post Jimmy's accomplishments can never be taken from him some of which are non searchable on the internet and that’s how it goes. Maybe Jimmy places too much emphasis on his wishes to be in the HOF? At the end of the day to some people the HOF is only a tin cup it’s not gold. It’s all perspective.
 
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The simple thing for all the 'Let Jimmy In' fans is to start lobbying the BCA now. Let 'em know how you feel. No one on here has the 'juice' to get him the votes but large public support 'might'. I have nothing against Mataya and thought he was entertaining player, just don't think he's HOF worthy. Time will tell i guess.
 
T411 said:
Like I said in an earlier post Jimmy's accomplishments can never be taken from him some of which are non searchable on the internet and that’s how it goes. Maybe Jimmy places too much emphasis on his wishes to be in the HOF? At the end of the day to some people the HOF is only a tin cup it’s not gold. It’s all perspective.
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Jimmy Mataya has passed away.

Will Prout
 
T411 said:
Then what are your guidelines? I’m not arguing for or against Jimmy but I’d like to know what hard and fast rules or guidelines would look like because you can look at all the players already in the HOF and try coming up with a criteria that would enable all of them to fit in that box. Or better yet come up with one and see how many HOFers would be outside that box. In life there’s always going to be gray area… it’s never going to be perfect. Even when you have hard and fast rules people will find a way to manipulate or interpret to their benefit. Politics come into play whenever people are involved. There’s no way around it. Even when you have former players voting… what’s their agenda? Maybe they’ve earned the right but don’t think their vote doesn’t always come with an agenda, biases, or professional jealousies. That goes for the whoever’s on the voting board. In most cases people can come to a consensus but there’s always going to be the Jimmy Matayas, the Micheal Coopers, & Pete Roses that not everyone agrees on. Ask five NBA HOFers to pick their top five of all time. There’s no consensus.

I love the game. All aspects of it including the gambling, which to me is part of the rich history and legacy of this great game in this country. It’s Americana. It’s the “Wild Wild West!”

Like I said in an earlier post Jimmy's accomplishments can never be taken from him some of which are non searchable on the internet and that’s how it goes. Maybe Jimmy places too much emphasis on his wishes to be in the HOF? At the end of the day to some people the HOF is only a tin cup it’s not gold. It’s all perspective.
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You know he died, don’t you?
 
garczar said:
... start lobbying the BCA now....
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The BCA no longer controls who is inducted into the Hall of Fame. The USBMA nominations committee now selects nominees which are then voted on by the full USBMA membership and living HOF members. (It used to be that if a shuffleboard company was a member of the BCA, they would be voting on the HOF nominees.)
T411 said:
HOF inductions can’t happen posthumously? Or is still living a criteria? Other sports do that.
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Dead or alive is OK. In general posthumously will be under the veteran players category or for meritorious service.
 
garczar said:
The simple thing for all the 'Let Jimmy In' fans is to start lobbying the BCA now. Let 'em know how you feel. No one on here has the 'juice' to get him the votes but large public support 'might'. I have nothing against Mataya and thought he was entertaining player, just don't think he's HOF worthy. Time will tell i guess.
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Cornerman (Freddie Agnir) voted for Jimmy for BCA HOF…God bless him.
 
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pt109 said:
Cornerman (Freddie Agnir) voted for Jimmy for BCA HOF…God bless him.
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Wow, must be serious if God's involved. He'd never make it in the player category and his 'meritorious service' is a tad doubtful too. Each his own.
 
JAM said:
The BCA Hall of Fame seems to favor tournament soldiers, those with many titles under their belts, for the player category. For the meritorious category, though, I can see Jimmy Mataya nominated for that. I did some research on Jimmy for a Wikipedia page, and in doing so, I was amazed at how many films he had cameo appearances in as the "pool player."

He was a real treasure to be around, anybody who got to sit down with him and chat. In Vegas at an IPT event, Shawn Putnam saw Jimmy having dinner with me and my other half at a restaurant in The Venetian. It was The Jimmy Mataya Show. Keith and I were laughing nonstop at Jimmy's stories, one of which was a recent 14.1 tournament he played in where the roof was leaking water on his table. To hear Jimmy tell the story, it was hilarious. Shawn Putnam pulled me aside and asked if I would introduce him to Jimmy. That's how much respect Jimmy Mataya garnered form his peers.

As an aside, I noticed in the Reyes Cup, Scott Frost had a label under him that said "Billiards Hall of Fame 2019." This is actually his OnePocket.org Hall of Fame designation for his "Outstanding Contribution to the Legacy of the Game of One Pocket."

Hall of Fame titles are very meaningful to those who devoted their lives to the game of pool. I'd like to see Jimmy get in the BCA Hall of Fame, and if not, he'd be a shoe-in, in my opinion, for the Lifetime Action category in the OnePocket.org Hall of Fame.

A Jimmy Mataya tale I heard not so long ago was that he enjoyed games of stake as well as sports betting. Before the football season or baseball season (can't remember), he bet a nice amount on a long shot that was 50 to 1, and he won. He used the winnings towards purchasing a home. It was a big amount.


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Thank you for the response!

Yes, I think at minimum he should be in the "Lifetime Pool in Action" Category of the One Pocket HOF. Based on their criteria - my research, as well as the comments here, indicate he meets qualifications 1 and 2 quite easily:

Selection criteria for The Hall of Fame:

1. Great Players who have demonstrated their excellence in tournament competition over time.
2. After Hours Legends who have demonstrated their excellence and their heart by matching up against the best of their time.
3. Teachers and Promoters who have had a lasting impact on the growth and popularity of the game.

Link(https://www.onepocket.org/hall-of-fame/)

I also think JAM, when you consider Jimmy's entire career which includes, the following, that the blend of his accomplishments. could make him BCA worthy:
1) Tournament wins
- Recorded wins in multiple disciplines (14.1, 8 Ball, 9 Ball)
2) Gambling wins
3) Commentary
4) Movies
5) Cameos
6) Overall Pool Culture Contributions
7) History. Been around all the players, from mosconi and fats onwards
8) Him and Eva being married and being the first couple to hold world titles is also really cool (but i dont think this holds too signifcant of weight in consideration)


There is also a key aspect of your post JAM which I want to highlight. The level of respect and celebrity he had amongst the pool players and community. From a personality stand point, he was charismatic like a Fats (didnt he spend time on the road with fats?).He had the highest level of respect amongst the pool players it seems.

He is certainly one of the more interesting characters in the pool world when you consider his unique blend of contributions to the overall game.
 
I loved Jimmy Mataya! One of my best friends in the entire pool world. He had a great personality, was honorable and truthful always, and played a damn good game of pool. Jimmy was right there with the top players, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. He was a contender and frequently went deep in the money. Jimmy was also a stand out money player, one of the best ring game players (Ten Ball) and he never dogged a bet! Nobody ever gave Jimmy any weight! He never asked for it either. He was that good. Too many stories about Jimmy from when he busted the Crap table at the Sands to when he bet his full bankroll (40K) against his life, Literally!

All that said, was he a HOF player? No. Was he a HOF person? YES! No one who knew Jimmy will ever forget him.
 
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jay helfert said:
I loved Jimmy Mataya! One of my best friends in the entire pool world. He had a great personality, was honorable and truthful always, and played a damn good game of pool. Jimmy was right there with the top players, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. He was a contender and frequently went deep in the money. Jimmy was also a stand out money player, one of the best ring game players (Ten Ball) and he never dogged a bet! Nobody ever gave Jimmy any weight! He never asked for it either. He was that good. Too many stories about Jimmy from when he busted the Crap table at the Sands to when he bet his full bankroll (40K) against his life, Literally!

All that said, was he a HOF player? No. Was he a HOF person? YES! No one who knew Jimmy will ever forget him.
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Great to get a response from you Jay - I read your book and believe you mention Jimmy in there also. As someone who has been around basically everyone - its good to hear your perspective on the topic. Some people above said that top players could give him the 8 - that doesn't seem like it was the case based on your response. "Nobody ever gave Jimmy any weight! He never asked for it either. He was that good. "
 
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