How good was Toby Sweet and does anyone have stories.

[Fatboy]

playing in a tournament you do use all the rules to your advantage. that is what the rules are for.

by the outcome you could surmise he was pushing out but certainly not when he was lining up or shooting it.
he knew the rules but forgot and messed up and it cost him the set.

Toby screwed up plain and simple.

It’s easy to call Wade a nit for calling it. But Toby knows the rules and he blew it. Always call a push (especially when shooting toward the OB) and in that case-call it and get confirmation that you called it. Then push out.

It played out as it should have

I’m not a rule nazi, but this is clear

 

[maha]

when grady's mind and functions were going downhill fast he never said then it was worth dying young so he could puff his way to the grave.
most of the old timers died young. as most smoked and or drank and used drugs heavily. a few got lucky and are still around.

 

[soyale]

That was a strange shot- I think it was actually tied at 7 at that juncture of the match. I think Sweet clearly intended that to be a push and should have called it. Don't know what I would have done in Crane's position- felt a little cheap, but it seemed like Buddy thought he was fully justified in calling a foul.

Sadly, I noticed at the 1:04:55 mark that Grady prophesied his own death from cigarette smoking

what grady said was that if he departs this earth 8 or 10 years early due to cigarettes that its fine with him.

You are correct it was 7-7 at that juncture after toby had just caught up 7-0? and yes wade was fully within his rights to call a foul, not only did toby fail to call push but back then it was even specifically necessary to verbally call it IF shooting toward the 1, which toby was. nonetheless it felt hollow to me.

He could have chosen to accept the pushout his opponent played but instead he called the refs over to see if he could get out of it

 

[soyale]

Toby screwed up plain and simple.

It’s easy to call Wade a nit for calling it. But Toby knows the rules and he blew it. Always call a push (especially when shooting toward the OB) and in that case-call it and get confirmation that you called it. Then push out.

It played out as it should have

I’m not a rule nazi, but this is clear

would you take ball in hand off an opponent for this ? Lets say he rolls the ball to the end rail instead, even MORE clearly a push.

im just curious. My very first remark was that wade was within his rights to call a foul.

it just feels a bit like walter telling smokey hes over the line.

Or, alternatively, proclaiming that you “won” a game of 8ball because your opponent didnt verbally call the pocket that the 8 was hanging in. Like… yeah, you’re right, you “won”. Congratulations?

 

[garczar]

Toby screwed up plain and simple.

It’s easy to call Wade a nit for calling it. But Toby knows the rules and he blew it. Always call a push (especially when shooting toward the OB) and in that case-call it and get confirmation that you called it. Then push out.

It played out as it should have

I’m not a rule nazi, but this is clear

All that needed was the soup nazi from Seinfeld, " No push for you!!!" Gotta say that TS kinda dogged it on the call. He took it like a stand-up guy. Can you imagine Earl or Douche-aine in that spot? They would have gone postal.

 

[soyale]

All that needed was the soup nazi from Seinfeld, " No push for you!!!" Gotta say that TS kinda dogged it on the call. He took it like a stand-up guy. Can you imagine Earl or Douche-aine in that spot? They would have gone postal.

agreed, very sportsmanlike. he knew he blew it.

 

[Chip Roberson]

Never met Toby , but heard a few stories back when. One of those was , he was the last person to ever spot Buddy Hall the eight and win. That must
have not been factual , since Buddy mentions he remembers seeing Toby when he was just a scruff kid.

 

[decent dennis]

Never met Toby , but heard a few stories back when. One of those was , he was the last person to ever spot Buddy Hall the eight and win. That must
have not been factual , since Buddy mentions he remembers seeing Toby when he was just a scruff kid.

But he also said they were around the same age.

 

[maha]

if in a tournament and the opponent makes a mistake by not calling any shot he has to, you should and have a right to call the penalty on him.
we arent talking about a 50 dollar tournament among friends.

 

[skogstokig]

That was a strange shot- I think it was actually tied at 7 at that juncture of the match. I think Sweet clearly intended that to be a push and should have called it. Don't know what I would have done in Crane's position- felt a little cheap, but it seemed like Buddy thought he was fully justified in calling a foul.

Sadly, I noticed at the 1:04:55 mark that Grady prophesied his own death from cigarette smoking

i'm not convinced wade could see how cut off toby was from the kick. if he couldn't, i don't think it's that nitty of him

 

[measureman]

Here's a great old thread on Toby.

Toby Sweet

Anyone remember,know or play with a hustler named Toby Sweet?

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[tomatoshooter]

Don't know what I would have done in Crane's position- felt a little cheap, but it seemed like Buddy thought he was fully justified in calling a foul.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I'd let slip in a friendly game but in an important match you have to be more strict. It takes a little bit from the win, that not calling the push doesn't really affect where the balls went.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Mizerak and Toby Sweet

Comedy gold right here:

 

[soyale]

if in a tournament and the opponent makes a mistake by not calling any shot he has to, you should and have a right to call the penalty on him.
we arent talking about a 50 dollar tournament among friends.

*clears gun*

“Its a league game, smokey.”

 

[soyale]

never even threatened the 1ball. Not by a foot

 

[maha]

you obviously never played for big money or in any sports big tournaments.

all players will call the rules as they are stated or agreed to on their opponents.

in this case he called the rule that was standard and all players knew or should have know it.

 

[Fatboy]

you obviously never played for big money or in any sports big tournaments.

all players will call the rules as they are stated or agreed to on their opponents.

in this case he called the rule that was standard and all players knew or should have know it.

He knew it and he screwed up. Which is why when Toby got called on it-he didn’t put up a fight. He knew it and could only blame himself-which he did like a pro should. Respect!

I’d have called on him if I was on the hill or down 9-0. Score never matters on a mistake like that. It wasn’t a move by Wade, was proper management.

You always call a push and make sure it’s acknowledged by the ref and/or who you are playing. Period.

Same as when you have someone on 1 or 2 fouls. Establish that fact before you shoot again.

Simple game management. You are responsible for managing your game/set/money when you play real pool. Banging balls around is different and a waste of time.

This isn’t social pool, so social conduct is not the plan here. Properly managing your game is as important as playing well. Many beginners don’t understand that to be a great player you have to be a great manager in all aspects of your game-not just hitting the balls. Hitting the balls good is only part of being a great player.

Best
Fatboy <——-been around the block

 

[westcoast]

True, Toby didn’t yell and scream about it, but from his facial expression/mannerisms it seemed like he wasn’t too happy with the call.

Oh well, it’s 26 years ago now. Water under the bridge.

 

[soyale]

you obviously never played for big money or in any sports big tournaments.

all players will call the rules as they are stated or agreed to on their opponents.

in this case he called the rule that was standard and all players knew or should have know it.

you are absolutely correct! I have not. I dont think i will ever be good enough to do so, either.

Understandably you probably missed my initial comments about how wade was fully within his rights to call a foul. i never ever disputed that. its just a bad rule, that you can get ball in hand off a super obvious push shot. Earlier i referenced claiming victory because your opponent failed to audibly call a hanging 8 ball. To me this is the same thing…. Sure, you “won.”

Earlier in the set wade bumps the 9 ball and a ref just moves it back to about where he thought it was and let wade keep shooting. This is another instance of what in my opinion is a bad rule. it doesnt matter one way or the next, as someone else mentioned it was 26 years ago.

I’m just drawing attention to how erroneous it was in the situation, more laying blame on the bad rule of “if shooting toward the 1” which is what caused the “confusion.” toby had no choice but to push.

wade could have taken the pushout as it was played, or handed it back to toby, and nobody would have thought anything of it. instead, however, he enforced a legality that in my opinion was not relevant to the shot in question and was granted ball in hand resulting in wade winning the set.

What does “toward the 1” mean? if there was a whole wall of balls blocking the 1, but the cue ball is going that direction, does it still count as “toward” the low ball?

situations like this are most likely why the rule was changed to simply that you must audibly call any pushout.

it felt like a bum deal to me. I posted the photos to illustrate why. if toby was elevating with inside you could potentially argue he was trying to swerve at the 1, but as it is theres just not a single doubt in my mind that he assumed the pushout was assumed which made an ass of us all.

 

[soyale]

He knew it and he screwed up. Which is why when Toby got called on it-he didn’t put up a fight. He knew it and could only blame himself-which he did like a pro should. Respect!

I’d have called on him if I was on the hill or down 9-0. Score never matters on a mistake like that. It wasn’t a move by Wade, was proper management.

You always call a push and make sure it’s acknowledged by the ref and/or who you are playing. Period.

Same as when you have someone on 1 or 2 fouls. Establish that fact before you shoot again.

Simple game management. You are responsible for managing your game/set/money when you play real pool. Banging balls around is different and a waste of time.

This isn’t social pool, so social conduct is not the plan here. Properly managing your game is as important as playing well. Many beginners don’t understand that to be a great player you have to be a great manager in all aspects of your game-not just hitting the balls. Hitting the balls good is only part of being a great player.

Best
Fatboy <——-been around the block

I agree with all of that. im glad that the rules have since changed. i’d wager toby would agree as well.

rules are rules and he broke one and paid for it. zero argument.

all im saying is it’s a shit rule and toby got the short end of the stick.

Why is/was the rule there? So you cant have your cake and eat it too by missing the 1 and then claiming “oh, i was pushing.” i dont think that was tobys intention and therefor should not have been punished.

Wade was the wiser player, knowing the rules and taking advantage of them and it won him the set.

i think we all would have liked to have seen how that match would have played out had wade taken/passed the shot like normal, instead of getting bih on a “good hit” and running out the set.