How many known Pro players are there in the US?

J

justinb386

Banned
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am curious how many known Pro players there are in the US?

I guess the meaning of a pro player is one that plays for a living (a player that just plays pool, and does not have a regular job).

I am curious if many of the players on the midwest 9 ball tour (for example) are considered pro (and I guess they are if they just play pool, and do not have a regular day job).

Like Justin Bergman for example?

I assume he is a pro, and does very well for himself at it.

So I am just curious how many pro's are out there, and trying to make a living playing pool?

I assume that they would need to be good enough to place in the top 5 in most tournaments to make a living out of just playing pool, so most of the players on the midwest 9 ball tour (and other tours of the same size) are not pro (but semi pro).

I also wonder if pool is much bigger over in Europe and Asia (many more pro players then in the US), and many more much stronger junior players too I assume?

Thanks.
 
Pretty darn hard for anyone to figure that out with no Organization. First you have figure out what makes one a pro in pool. IMO there are less than 20 that make some money out of tournaments...how ever small that money may be. Johnnyt.
 
Well, your definition is someone who plays for their living. It is really very easy to figure out.

On the front page of AZB down on the bottom right is a box that is the Money Leaderboard. Right now it is set on 2014 and so is almost meaningless. But if you click on "View Ranking" it will take you to a page where on the left hand side you can see the money won in previous years.

For 2013 you certainly had one American who made his living at playing. Shane Van Boening earned $153,400 last year.

The next two Americans, Rodney Morris and Corey Deuel, each won a bit over $41,000. After they pay their expenses you have to assume they took home something less than that.

Only two other Americans, Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer, made more than $30,000 at pool last year. In my world you are not "making a living" lower than that, you are "struggling to survive". Especially after travel expenses and entry fees.

So, by my count, America had no more than 5 professional players in 2013. And even that depends on what amount you personally feel constitutes "making a living".
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
Well, your definition is someone who plays for their living. It is really very easy to figure out.

On the front page of AZB down on the bottom right is a box that is the Money Leaderboard. Right now it is set on 2014 and so is almost meaningless. But if you click on "View Ranking" it will take you to a page where on the left hand side you can see the money won in previous years.

For 2013 you certainly had one American who made his living at playing. Shane Van Boening earned $153,400 last year.

The next two Americans, Rodney Morris and Corey Deuel, each won a bit over $41,000. After they pay their expenses you have to assume they took home something less than that.

Only two other Americans, Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer, made more than $30,000 at pool last year. In my world you are not "making a living" lower than that, you are "struggling to survive". Especially after travel expenses and entry fees.

So, by my count, America had no more than 5 professional players in 2013. And even that depends on what amount you personally feel constitutes "making a living".
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Good points, except that "making a living" isn't just about winning/placing tournaments. Most PGA golf pros are instructors and course managers; same with tennis pros. They make their living from giving lessons.

Of course, since there aren't that many pool players, we don't have that many full-time instructors, managers, etc. Even if you include them, pool is still a very small industry.
 
earn a living?

Jerry Forsyth said:
Well, your definition is someone who plays for their living. It is really very easy to figure out.

On the front page of AZB down on the bottom right is a box that is the Money Leaderboard. Right now it is set on 2014 and so is almost meaningless. But if you click on "View Ranking" it will take you to a page where on the left hand side you can see the money won in previous years.

For 2013 you certainly had one American who made his living at playing. Shane Van Boening earned $153,400 last year.

The next two Americans, Rodney Morris and Corey Deuel, each won a bit over $41,000. After they pay their expenses you have to assume they took home something less than that.

Only two other Americans, Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer, made more than $30,000 at pool last year. In my world you are not "making a living" lower than that, you are "struggling to survive". Especially after travel expenses and entry fees.

So, by my count, America had no more than 5 professional players in 2013. And even that depends on what amount you personally feel constitutes "making a living".
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You're forgetting about a lot of players who play for money (and win a lot), but never play pro tournaments. I've known and seen quite a few over the past 59 years. Also, many of the pros on tour make more gambling than in tournaments.
 
Donny, whom among these gambling players that you have known has ever been able to retire comfortably? Any of them? Or did they scrape their whole lives? Sure, they win a lot. They lose a lot as well.
 
bdorman said:
Good points, except that "making a living" isn't just about winning/placing tournaments. Most PGA golf pros are instructors and course managers; same with tennis pros. They make their living from giving lessons.
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Here's a followup question I've often wondered about.

How many of the big name pros are giving regular (like multiple times per week) lessons for money?
A guy like, say, Corey, would not be out of line charging up to 100 bucks / hr. for lessons.
But does he?

If he charged that (even though it sounds fair on paper) does he get many buyers?

I mean, we never see more than a very small handful of pros advertising lessons on here.
You see Lee Brett, CJ, etc. but not Earl, Corey, Mike D., Rodney Morris...
I feel like any of them should be able to book enough lessons to make a living even without tourney winnings.

So are they doing this, and just don't need to advertise on AZ because they can already easily get business?
Or are they not doing it and potentially leaving money on the table?
Maybe I'm wrong about how many people are willing to spend that much on pool instruction?
 
Carolina Blue said:
Donny, whom among these gambling players that you have known has ever been able to retire comfortably? Any of them? Or did they scrape their whole lives? Sure, they win a lot. They lose a lot as well.
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John Drew does as good as any pro playing the game. Year in/out

I know of 1 or 2 more that do well.
 
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I would say there is one. SVB.

Noone else in America makes enough money from playing pro pool (not gambling/hustling but pro tournaments and the associated sponsorship) to earn an actual living. People like Archer have their own business interests they focus on, Dechaine works for the APA from what I hear, ect...

For people who do nothing but play pool and make an actual living doing it, aka able to afford to actually "live", SVB, that is it.

This is not including European ex-pats like Appleton.
 
Thanks for your replies. I remember talking to this really good player once (and I think he was good enough to play in the pro events), and he told me that he thought that there was more money to be made by staying in the amateur ranks. So are there also not many pro pool players (that make an okay living at it) in Europe, and Asia?
 
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Donny Lutz said:
You're forgetting about a lot of players who play for money (and win a lot), but never play pro tournaments. I've known and seen quite a few over the past 59 years. Also, many of the pros on tour make more gambling than in tournaments.
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This is so true by your statement. My very first pro tournament I went to, I hardly watch a match, I spent all my time gambling, I certainly didn't play or did I plan to play in the pro tournament. . Taking spots from the pro players, like the 5 and break. This advice came from Vernon. I loved the action and broke about even after 2 days of playing. There is so much money made on gambling, than the actual tournament. There was a lot of big time gambling going on. Vernon Elliott challenged the winner of the tournament to play him a set for the entire amount won. Amazing gambler Vernon Elliott. The set never took place. First and only time I met Minnesota Fats.
 
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Well, let's look at it like this.You got guys like Archer who are "professional" pool players, but you're not seeing them real high on the money boards. Many times, these guys have stake horses that are paying their expenses to play in tournaments. This past weekend at Music City, Archer was in a stable of a few players all playing out of the same pocket. Their tournament entires, travel costs, hotel, etc. were all paid by the stake horse. Then, there's the side action that they can get at these tournaments. I had Archer in the second calcutta and paid him off for taking second. You don't see that money show up in the leader boards. I'd be willing to bet that Johnny made more money getting paid out from people with side action than he actually made in the tournament.
 
Retirement

Carolina Blue said:
Donny, whom among these gambling players that you have known has ever been able to retire comfortably? Any of them? Or did they scrape their whole lives? Sure, they win a lot. They lose a lot as well.
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Obviously, I can't answer that because I haven't followed all their lives till the end.

But wouldn't they be a little like any group of folks? Some put money away for the future and some don't.

The ones that do retire with a bundle, likely don't brag about it for tax reasons.

If I never play tournaments, but profit more than the average America makes a year with my gambling, would you say I made a "living" at it? Or is my success determined only by my nest egg?

I had a close friend who made a substantial amount of money playing pool, almost all gambling. He never had a job and never even had a driver's license. He had quite a nice secret stash of $$. But he died of an illness at a young age. Where would he fit in your view?

Having been around the game since '55, I've heard many stories from old timers about players you've likely never heard of who retired quite comfortably with their winnings.

I suppose it has a lot to do with what you mean by a lot of money.
 
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