How many of you can beat the 9-ball ghost?

[PlynSets]

I am just curious what your rules are for playing the ghost.

Thanks,
Rodney

Well down here in S.D. it's pretty much the same as everywhere else. There's "variations" on whether or not scratching on the cueball results in a loss or not.

The way I learned how to play the ghost was, Break, BIH. You scratch on the break you lose. You can either run out, or make the 9 on a legal shot to win each rack.

DJ

 

[PlynSets]

Well, you are picking on me. I was just trying to help with my opinion, not brag about my skill. I even tried to give advice on how others can improve their game with the ghost, gave some tips.

I didn't say I torture the ghost. I said on my table, it's a pretty even game. I do this for practice, not money. You can believe me or not, it makes no difference to me.

I don't play the ghost for money. However, I will be happy to try you for a few sets at Hard Times. When we're done, maybe you can tell everyone here whether or not you think I can beat the ghost.

Chris

I'm sorry it came off that way.. Sometimes "tone" is hard to correctly deliver in text. As far as trying a few sets, I'm game. You read my offer above. I'll bring 3Bills tonight if you have time (or 5 Bills after the 1st), a video camera and a smile. If I lose I certainly won't take it personally, point in fact I'll be pretty impressed by the feat to be honest. It'd be worth the money for me to see. I expect the same if it goes the other way though, even if ya "shoulda" won and don't it ain't my problem and it's not personal.

Standard (what I would consider standard) rules.
Scratching on the break results in loss of that game.
BIH after the break
9 Balls CAN be made out of order so long as it's a legal shot.

As far as

When we're done, maybe you can tell everyone here whether or not you think I can beat the ghost.

When we're done if you ask me not to post the results of it, then I'll keep my mouth shut. On the flipside if you don't care, I'm planning on recording it and I'll post it up as a video. That portion is entirely up to you. I will be recording it either way, but if you don't want anyone else to see it I can respect that. I'll keep it to myself and in my library for prosperity purposes. I'm certainly not one to kill someones action.

DJ

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

How many of you can beat the 9-ball ghost ?


Beat him ? I play so poorly, that the ghost won't even TALK to me..

Doug
(I haven't even SEEN the ghost in years.... he must be OLD by now)

 

[TATE]

I'm sorry it came off that way.. Sometimes "tone" is hard to correctly deliver in text. As far as trying a few sets, I'm game. You read my offer above. I'll bring 3Bills tonight if you have time (or 5 Bills after the 1st), a video camera and a smile. If I lose I certainly won't take it personally, point in fact I'll be pretty impressed by the feat to be honest. It'd be worth the money for me to see. I expect the same if it goes the other way though, even if ya "shoulda" won and don't it ain't my problem and it's not personal.

Standard (what I would consider standard) rules.
Scratching on the break results in loss of that game.
BIH after the break
9 Balls CAN be made out of order so long as it's a legal shot.

As far as


When we're done if you ask me not to post the results of it, then I'll keep my mouth shut. On the flipside if you don't care, I'm planning on recording it and I'll post it up as a video. That portion is entirely up to you. I will be recording it either way, but if you don't want anyone else to see it I can respect that. I'll keep it to myself and in my library for prosperity purposes. I'm certainly not one to kill someones action.

DJ

Well, I don't really play the ghost for money.

However, I would like to make you a counter-offer. We can play two sets, $100 each race to 9, me and you. Then, regardless of outcome, I'll play the ghost two sets, race to 9, for $100 each. You can tape it or do whatever you want.

It will have to be the weekend of the either Oct. 6, 7, or 8. I already have a pretty full calender until then.

I sincerely would like to do this. If the money is an issue, I will play for less or for more, it's not important to me. Hard Times is fine, the tournament room.

Chris

 

[1pRoscoe]

Well, I don't really play the ghost for money.

However, I would like to make you a counter-offer. We can play two sets, $100 each race to 9, me and you. Then, regardless of outcome, I'll play the ghost two sets, race to 9, for $100 each. You can tape it or do whatever you want.

It will have to be the weekend of the either Oct. 6, 7, or 8. I already have a pretty full calender until then.

I sincerely would like to do this. If the money is an issue, I will play for less or for more, it's not important to me. Hard Times is fine, the tournament room.

Chris

Go get 'em, Chris....

 

[PlynSets]

Tate, it would seem to me that it'd be a stupid bet on my part. I just read earlier in the thread that you were knocking pro's out of a tourny, and here I am some lowly B player from S.D. How the hell am I going to compete with that?

In the end, I'm going to lose 2 sets and your going to play the ghost on my money which = zero pressure for you and a potential of doubling up again on my money with zero chance of me winning anything.

You might've read earlier that I've been around the game to know what's what. Why would I put myself in a situation I know I can't win, to watch you play some sets on my money that while you are most likely the underdog might be able to pull one out? Doesn't seem to bright to me so I'll have to pass on that.

You playing the ghost is your talent with your money vs the ghost on my money. Seems a little more fair, being that you play more the ghosts speed then my speed. Again, I want to clarify, I wasn't trying to pick on you, I just happened to notice you live in Burbank and figured we could get something going becuase the location(s) were convenient.

If you want action on the ghost, I'll be willing to give it a shot. If you want action with me, hey I'm game for that too, but we're going to be negotiating a spot of some sort.

DJ <---- B player, hasn't exactly knocked any pro's out of tourny's lately.

 

[uwate]

The scratch on break= loss of game is a big one. Thats worth at least a few games in a 10 ahead set.

 

[PlynSets]

The scratch on break= loss of game is a big one. Thats worth at least a few games in a 10 ahead set.

That's just the standard rules I always played by down here.

The two different sets of rules pretty much balance each other out.. Point in fact I think my way is the easier of the two if were referring to what I play by and what Tate plays by. He has better odds of beating my action.

In his home sessions against the ghost, 9 balls out of order do NOT count as a win. My way opens up caroms, combos, and 9 ball breaks, (rattled 9 balls off the break can easily be made) the only thing it's taking away is you just can't scratch on the break is all.

I've gone back and read the posts, and to be honest I'm a little nervous that I'll lose my money, it sounds like he plays strong.. really strong actually, But again if he can pull it off, I'd pay him 3 bills to watch him lay the smack down on the ghost 3 sets in a row. God knows I can't do it, and that ghost has been haunting me for years.

DJ

 

[hippiepool]

I'd like to know who the 16 guys are that are 50% and above on beating the ghost in a race to 5 or better..

That's pretty strong in my book.

DJ <--- going to go play the ghost tonight.

i answered 50 % ..........

 

[PlynSets]

I don't know if this has been asked before, but how many of you can beat the 9-ball ghost, say race to 9? Can you do it on a regular basis? Only when the stars align? Let's make this on a 9 foot table, as opposed to a bar box.

I hoping that his gives us a measure of the level of talent on this board. Please be honest in your assessment.


Regards,

Doug

Well again, with every response I make it's making it sound more and more like I have something personal against Tate. Nothing could be further from the truth. Seems like a real nice guy, with a lot of talent behind him.

That being said I'll approach this in a different manor (similar to Jimbo earlier). He offered up 100.00 a set action out where he is, and I'll do the same in the SoCal area to the members of AZBilliards.. (Not the lurkers, the people posting)

Anyone of the 30 guys above that voted "most of the time" (meaning better then 50%) have action with me on what I would consider a "tight but accurate" table (4.25 straight cut pockets, hollywood billiards, hardtimes tournament side, my house for all I care).

It has to be an actual "poster" on AZBilliards with a history on here (not just registering john schmidt or the like when he happens to be in town).

There's alot of seriously strong players out there that can pull this off I have no doubt.. Point in fact I don't like my odds at all with some of the guys down here in S.D. I'd cry like a scared girl with a skinned knee after 2 sets with Victor or the like.

I'm just saying the 30 guys that voted above, atleast 90% of that 30 couldn't actually do it, if they could I'd probably know who they were, Atleast down here in socal.

I'm just taking the odds that out of the 30 guys 29 of them on here ain't gonna pull it.. and that last 1, well he's ringer.

I don't know if this has been asked before, but how many of you can beat the 9-ball ghost, say race to 9? Can you do it on a regular basis? Only when the stars align? Let's make this on a 9 foot table, as opposed to a bar box.

I hoping that his gives us a measure of the level of talent on this board. Please be honest in your assessment.


Regards,

Doug

So to answer your original question Doug, I'd bet there's maybe 5 guys on this board that would fall into that 1st category.. and even then "most the time" is still kinda "iffy." More like have beaten it in the past, and are the favorite to win, but not exactly a lock. Probably 10 - 15 guys that are running a true 50% average against the ghost, and 100 guys that could beat it 20% of the time.. This of course assuming everyone was held to the same standard of

Table = 9'er, TIGHT but accurate pockets (tight = 4 1/4 max)
Scratching on break = loss
BIH after the break
9's made legally count as wins


As far as

I hoping that this gives us a measure of the level of talent on this board. Please be honest in your assessment.

I think we have a few pro(s) here, few and far between seriously strong A players (tate probably included to be honest), and a few more low A players, a shitload of B players (by S.D. Standards) and some bangers.. Maybe a pinch of C players in for seasoning..

In other words, basically the same mix of people your going to find at a larger quality pool hall.

DJ

 

[Williebetmore]

I think we have a few pro(s) here, few and far between seriously strong A players (tate probably included to be honest), and a few more low A players, a shitload of B players (by S.D. Standards) and some bangers.. Maybe a pinch of C players in for seasoning..

In other words, basically the same mix of people your going to find at a larger quality pool hall.

DJ

DJ,
I wonder on what you are basing your estimate (other than a certain natural skepticism)? How many AZB'ers do you personally know?

I can tell you that we had about 70 AZB'ers signed up for the AZB room at DCC 2006. Of those 70, there were at least 20 that would just torture the 9-ball ghost with typical rules (BIH after break, reasonable tables); there were another 30 that I did not have the chance to assess. I only saw one or two that would have no chance against the ghost.

My inclination is to think that AZB is NOT IN THE LEAST like the average pool hall. It attracts the real pool fanatics, the students of the game, and the truly accomplished players - who all have no other place to gather with like-minded afficionado's. Yes there are still some average players; but I think you will be surprised when you come to DCC this year and mix it up with the boys in the AZB room (and girls too).

You would be wise not to offer your proposition openly in the AZB room (you would be popular, but lighter in the pockets).

 

[sixpack]

Well again, with every response I make it's making it sound more and more like I have something personal against Tate. Nothing could be further from the truth. Seems like a real nice guy, with a lot of talent behind him.

That being said I'll approach this in a different manor (similar to Jimbo earlier). He offered up 100.00 a set action out where he is, and I'll do the same in the SoCal area to the members of AZBilliards.. (Not the lurkers, the people posting)

Anyone of the 30 guys above that voted "most of the time" (meaning better then 50%) have action with me on what I would consider a "tight but accurate" table (4.25 straight cut pockets, hollywood billiards, hardtimes tournament side, my house for all I care).

It has to be an actual "poster" on AZBilliards with a history on here (not just registering john schmidt or the like when he happens to be in town).

There's alot of seriously strong players out there that can pull this off I have no doubt.. Point in fact I don't like my odds at all with some of the guys down here in S.D. I'd cry like a scared girl with a skinned knee after 2 sets with Victor or the like.

I'm just saying the 30 guys that voted above, atleast 90% of that 30 couldn't actually do it, if they could I'd probably know who they were, Atleast down here in socal.

I'm just taking the odds that out of the 30 guys 29 of them on here ain't gonna pull it.. and that last 1, well he's ringer.






So to answer your original question Doug, I'd bet there's maybe 5 guys on this board that would fall into that 1st category.. and even then "most the time" is still kinda "iffy." More like have beaten it in the past, and are the favorite to win, but not exactly a lock. Probably 10 - 15 guys that are running a true 50% average against the ghost, and 100 guys that could beat it 20% of the time.. This of course assuming everyone was held to the same standard of

Table = 9'er, TIGHT but accurate pockets (tight = 4 1/4 max)
Scratching on break = loss
BIH after the break
9's made legally count as wins


As far as


I think we have a few pro(s) here, few and far between seriously strong A players (tate probably included to be honest), and a few more low A players, a shitload of B players (by S.D. Standards) and some bangers.. Maybe a pinch of C players in for seasoning..

In other words, basically the same mix of people your going to find at a larger quality pool hall.

DJ

With all due respect, I don't think it's fair to make the assertion that everybody is exaggerating and lying...and then change the definitions to raise the standard....so that everybody is exaggerating and lying.

I answered 50% because I've played the ghost twice on a regulation table. Came out around even both sessions. One I won2/3 the other 2/4. A barbox it isn't even close- the ghost loses.

My gut is that it's a slightly losing proposition for me. An off day and it could be really ugly. A good day and I could come out a little ahead.

This WAS NOT on 4.25" pockets. The PH I play at doesn't have pockets that tight. If that had been a stipulation, I probably wouldn't have answered at all as I am not well-informed enough to make that determination.

Cheers,
RC

 

[PlynSets]

Sixpack, I didn't make an assertion that everyone was out and out lieing. What I said was I'd bet with these criteria there might be this many people that could pull it.. I did however call bullshiat on the results of the poll, which again I stand behind completely.

The criteria I listed isn't exactly a "trap" table setup.. 4 1/4 really isn't as tight as we're making it out to be. It's just an honest pocket.

I have a 4 1/4 at home and on the next go around I'm going to have it shimmed up to 4 inches, becuase if I can run racks on it it's obviously not tough enough. My record is losing to the ghost 6 : 9 on my table, and I'm a B player.. A strong "A" player would shred the ghost under those same conditions.

If we're talking 5 inch (or bigger) pockets here, well then by all means I'd bet there's a shitload of guys that could beat the ghost.. Hell on a good day I'd probably be one of them.

Reread the bottom part of my last post, and you'll see what I mean. Again I'm not the worlds greatest writer here so I think most of my point was probably not conveyed as well as it should've been.

My point was, on an "honest" table (honest meaning you hit it center pocket and it goes in, you don't hit it center pocket and your entering shooter beware territory) I just can't see that many people flat killing the ghost. (I.E. 20% of the players that voted). I had to make some sort of standard for my position on this, becuase if nobody has one, then how do we know what's actually going on?

DJ

 

[Russ Chewning]

Let's look at it this way... I used to play in Washington state. In the Wednesday night 9 ball tourney in my pool hall, easily the toughest weeknight tourney in the state, there was no less than 15 out of 32 players that would torture the ghost not counting scratches on the break, and with bih. This was a race to three, and a few times an unlucky guy would never get to shoot in the tourney. That's right, his first round opponent put a three pack on him, and his first loser's bracket opponent put a three pack on him.

And Washington isn't even known as a tough state to play pool in. I can only imagine how many people can beat the ghost in states like Florida, New York, and Washington, D.C.

I do think it would be entertaining to see him offer that bet at the AZ room. Then, after that, somebody could play him 8 ball and offer him 6 balls and the first shot after the break.. Heh heh...

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

The criteria I listed isn't exactly a "trap" table setup.. 4 1/4 really isn't as tight as we're making it out to be. It's just an honest pocket.

I have a 4 1/4 at home and on the next go around I'm going to have it shimmed up to 4 inches, becuase if I can run racks on it it's obviously not tough enough. My record is losing to the ghost 6 : 9 on my table, and I'm a B player.. A strong "A" player would shred the ghost under those same conditions.


DJ

Ok, I'm calling shenanigans on YOU now, considering you called shenanigans on the poll results.

You run "racks" on 4 1/4 pockets, yet you are a B player? Shenanigans, I say. Then what keeps you at B player status? Must be your mental game. Funnily enough, that weak mental game might be what makes you think so many people beating the ghost is so improbable.

Also, you go right ahead and shim em up to 4 inches, and see how fast your game develops. It is fairly widely known that it can be harmful to your game to play on super tough equipment before you have developed a professional style. You'd be much better off practicing controlled draw shots, and practicing three rail punch shots. Etc, etc, etc.

Russ

 

[PlynSets]

Let's look at it this way... I used to play in Washington state. In the Wednesday night 9 ball tourney in my pool hall, easily the toughest weeknight tourney in the state, there was no less than 15 out of 32 players that would torture the ghost not counting scratches on the break, and with bih. This was a race to three, and a few times an unlucky guy would never get to shoot in the tourney. That's right, his first round opponent put a three pack on him, and his first loser's bracket opponent put a three pack on him.

And Washington isn't even known as a tough state to play pool in. I can only imagine how many people can beat the ghost in states like Florida, New York, and Washington, D.C.

Again, not claiming there isn't alot of guys out there that can't do it. I've seen it, gambled on it and won before, as well as lost. I know probably 4 guys down here in S.D. that'd take this bet in 2 seconds flat. S.D. isn't exactly known for it's pool talent either (atleast not anymore).

I do think it would be entertaining to see him offer that bet at the AZ room. Then, after that, somebody could play him 8 ball and offer him 6 balls and the first shot after the break.. Heh heh...

Russ

Before we go turning this into a PlynSets vs all of AZ Billiards kinda thread.. I just said I disagreed with the results of the poll. In typical pool fashion I was willing to put up Cash to support my viewpoints. I DIDN'T mean to pick on Tate as a particular, but just noticed he was one that was local so we could give it a shot.. Other then Tate, nobody (which is strange becuase I know their online right now) has even so much as nibbled on that action.

As far as the second part Russ, I'll leave it as a gesture of good faith to not take it personally. BTW You worded your sucker bet all wrong their big guy.. Give me the 1st shot off after the break and let me pick 6 balls (both yours and mine at my descretion) and you got yourself some action. Bad action one would think, but action none the less.

DJ

 

[PlynSets]

Ok, I'm calling shenanigans on YOU now, considering you called shenanigans on the poll results.

You run "racks" on 4 1/4 pockets, yet you are a B player? Shenanigans, I say. Then what keeps you at B player status? Must be your mental game. Funnily enough, that weak mental game might be what makes you think so many people beating the ghost is so improbable.

Also, you go right ahead and shim em up to 4 inches, and see how fast your game develops. It is fairly widely known that it can be harmful to your game to play on super tough equipment before you have developed a professional style. You'd be much better off practicing controlled draw shots, and practicing three rail punch shots. Etc, etc, etc.

Russ

Call Shenanigans all you want bro.. LOL A B player can and will run several racks in your average race to 9, even on a table with 4 1/4 inch pockets (again not as tight as your making it out to be). There's probably 10 videos of me running just thrown out 9 ball and 10 ball racks on that very same table (shit quite a few of them are what I'd call in the standard "ghost" format.. break ball in hand), and if ya like I'll take a ruler home today and take a picture of the pockets as well as how they measure compared to the balls, and the ruler etc..

Something I find strangely disturbing is I do have a weak mental game, and that's 95% of the reason I screw up an out when I do is becuase of "choking" for lack of a better term. So atleast you got me pegged on that part. The rest of it? What exactly is a "B" player to you? If your surprised that I can run a couple racks in a set as a B player, maybe we have different definitions of a B player?

DJ

 

[Russ Chewning]

As far as the second part Russ, I'll leave it as a gesture of good faith to not take it personally. BTW You worded your sucker bet all wrong their big guy.. Give me the 1st shot off after the break and let me pick 6 balls (both yours and mine at my descretion) and you got yourself some action. Bad action one would think, but action none the less.

DJ

Actually, I worded it right, except for leaving out parts of the full wording. It would actually go, "I'll take all but one of yer balls off the table (spot you 6 balls), and let you shoot first." And beat you like a red headed stepchild that way. I'd give Efren that spot.

And why on earth would I let YOU pick the balls?

Russ

 

[Russ Chewning]

Something I find strangely disturbing is I do have a weak mental game, and that's 95% of the reason I screw up an out when I do is becuase of "choking" for lack of a better term. So atleast you got me pegged on that part. The rest of it? What exactly is a "B" player to you? If your surprised that I can run a couple racks in a set as a B player, maybe we have different definitions of a B player?

DJ

Yup, we do. My definition of a B player is one who is a consistent 7-8 ball runner. Can run a rack fairly often, but cannot be relied on to do it multiple times in a set. Occasionally puts together a 2 pack, rarely a 3 pack. That being said, a B player will be right in the range you're talking about with the ghost, maybe a bit lower. I'd say a strong B player should average 3-6 games in a race to 9 against the ghost.

I am not surprised a B "can" run a couple of racks in a set, but I do not expect a B to do that consistently.

And as far as beating the ghost, I think you'd be surprised how close you might be to doing that yourself. Beating the ghost is much more about a mental shift than it is the physical part of the game. I made my breakthrough when I just became doggedly determined to beat those I considered to be less skilled than I. So in practice, it caused me to care "very much" about every single shot.

That's the key. Perfect practice. Jam yourself into hyper competitive mode when you are practicing at home on your table. Never let yourself approach a tough shot in a lackadaisical manner. If you do, you've already lost the game.

Playing the ghost causes you to really try your best to figure out how to win. Buddy Hall has a book, I think, "How do I win from here?" It seems like an easy question, but is it? Really?

Look at your average B player. Does he look super focused at the table? Does he look like he is trying his very best to play perfect position on every shot? To "feel" how far off the third rail he is going to come on this three rail position shot? Of course he doesn't. He could though, if he really tried.

And to tell you honestly, this mental focus, and a little work on fundamentals, is the only thing that separates A and B players.

Russ

 

[PlynSets]

Actually, I worded it right, except for leaving out parts of the full wording. It would actually go, "I'll take all but one of yer balls off the table (spot you 6 balls), and let you shoot first." And beat you like a red headed stepchild that way. I'd give Efren that spot.

And why on earth would I let YOU pick the balls?

Russ

Russ, I'm not quite sure how to explain this any simpler so I'm just going to lay it out for you..

Then, after that, somebody could play him 8 ball and offer him 6 balls and the first shot after the break..Russ

Does not mean the same things as

Actually, I worded it right, except for leaving out parts of the full wording. It would actually go, "I'll take all but one of yer balls off the table (spot you 6 balls), and let you shoot first."

On the 1st one you offered ME the 1st shot after the break and again offering ME 6 balls (unspecified).. To which I specified "I get to pick any 6 balls right?"

Now your saying I get the 1st shot after the break and you get to pick the 6 balls.. Which is going to revert back to the worlds dumbest bet..

How about the ole "I bet you don't shoot again" on the impossibly out only to shoot in the 8 ball? That one about your speed 2?

If these two examples are in fact represenative of your talents when it comes to gambling on a pool table, then I think we're about done here as far as debating about gambling.

My whole point in this thread was not that many people are going to pull this off.. and there's no action after a whole day of it being up there. That being said, I didn't mean to cause any drama.

Tate, you have my utmost apollogies again, wasn't trying to start shit or make it personal, just wanted to see someone do what was called "easy" by so many.

To everyone else, again my apollogies I certainly wasn't trying to cause drama on AZBilliards, I just disagreed with the results of a poll.

I'll withdrawal my action at a 100 a set, becuase it's certainly ruffling too many feathers around here

I don't want to cause problems, just read entertaining stories about pool, and maybe pick up some tips here and there from players and instructors that I respect.

Hope to play some sets... eerrr practice? Or just play pool with y'all in the future.

DJ <--- actually a nice guy believe it or not