I think the choice of commentators is very important in making pool entertaining. I agree with the 15 second shot clock, and I agree that 9 ball is the best TV game. I am much more likely to watch the matches on youtube where Jimmy Wytch or Jay Helfert commentating. Even though I know what they're going to say regarding shots/position, I am more entertained by the game when it is paired with the excitement and knowledge in their voices. Also, I'm a believer in not shushing the crowd between shots, let them cheer. Scotch doubles 9 ball is great too.
How many would like to see pool like a championship fight? CJ Wiley
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
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The Game won't carry the load of creating an emotional attachment
Now you're talking.
My producer's staff and I have come to the conclusion that it's ALL about the entertainment value, and it represents "current value". We believe to change something you first must accept responsibility that it DOES reflect the current value accurately.
It doesn't do me any good as a professional player to say "I should be making more for what I'm doing". What does put yourself in an effective mind frame is to say "I'm making what I'm making because it reflects the current market value, now, how do I make the necessary changes to increase that value"?
I shy away from anyone that has that victim mentality and thinks they should be making more without doing more. In the case of Professional Pool things need to change or the results will remain the same. The same mistakes, with the exception of the Mosconi Cup, are continuing that started many years ago. No one wants to watch ANY game on TV with players/people playing that they don't know or can't relate to...period!!! A personal, emotional attachment MUST be generated first.
The Game won't carry the load of creating an emotional attachment to a viewing audience, no Game ever has. It's the characters that are created and developed that make the difference.....and in this case it's ALL the difference. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Now you're talking.
My producer's staff and I have come to the conclusion that it's ALL about the entertainment value, and it represents "current value". We believe to change something you first must accept responsibility that it DOES reflect the current value accurately.
It doesn't do me any good as a professional player to say "I should be making more for what I'm doing". What does put yourself in an effective mind frame is to say "I'm making what I'm making because it reflects the current market value, now, how do I make the necessary changes to increase that value"?
I shy away from anyone that has that victim mentality and thinks they should be making more without doing more. In the case of Professional Pool things need to change or the results will remain the same. The same mistakes, with the exception of the Mosconi Cup, are continuing that started many years ago. No one wants to watch ANY game on TV with players/people playing that they don't know or can't relate to...period!!! A personal, emotional attachment MUST be generated first.
The Game won't carry the load of creating an emotional attachment to a viewing audience, no Game ever has. It's the characters that are created and developed that make the difference.....and in this case it's ALL the difference. 'The Game is the Teacher'
they would rather be playing fast on TV in front of millions
15 seconds is PLENTY of time to shoot playing rotation games. The top pros can pace theirselves anyway they need to.
I'm sure they would rather be playing fast on TV in front of millions than slow on streaming video playing in front of thousands. Without TV in the equation, there's no present and certainly no future for the players.
15 seconds is PLENTY of time to shoot playing rotation games. The top pros can pace theirselves anyway they need to.
I'm sure they would rather be playing fast on TV in front of millions than slow on streaming video playing in front of thousands. Without TV in the equation, there's no present and certainly no future for the players.
Hello C J,
I think people might like to see One Pocket on TV. It would keep their attention more since it is almost like a chess game. With the moves and great shots. I would like to see pool billed like the fights. Good post.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
.they do it in a much different and more interesting way that captures the "sizzle"
The way pocket billiards matches are "voiced" by the commentators needs to be examined. They are merely describing the game and what the players (or they) would do in the given situation.
Notice other sports/games they don't go about it in this fashion...they do it in a much different and more interesting way that captures the "sizzle", not the "steak".
It's not their job to teach people about the Game, this can be done in other "segments", and free the commentators to bring out the human interest/pressure/emotion of the presentation. imho 'The Game is the Teacher'
The way pocket billiards matches are "voiced" by the commentators needs to be examined. They are merely describing the game and what the players (or they) would do in the given situation.
Notice other sports/games they don't go about it in this fashion...they do it in a much different and more interesting way that captures the "sizzle", not the "steak".
It's not their job to teach people about the Game, this can be done in other "segments", and free the commentators to bring out the human interest/pressure/emotion of the presentation. imho 'The Game is the Teacher'
Best post I've read in a long time.
Your so right......
Hopefully we'll see stuff like this in our life.
We could make it happen for sure and then see it for sure.
I like your thinking......
Hopefully we'll see stuff like this in our life.
We could make it happen for sure and then see it for sure.
I like your thinking......
I would TOTALLY trash talk at the weigh-ins. :grin-devilish:
Next, I would allow my opponent to reach a comfortable lead of say...13 - 3?
Which during this time the crowd is chanting "BOOM-BYE-YAE!"
Then, SHAZAM!...I run the set out.
I'll call it the "Rope-A-Dope."
Next, I would allow my opponent to reach a comfortable lead of say...13 - 3?
Which during this time the crowd is chanting "BOOM-BYE-YAE!"
Then, SHAZAM!...I run the set out.
I'll call it the "Rope-A-Dope."
How is it pool's fault it's not popular?
And this type "acting" should be encouraged. After all it's about entertainment, nothing else. People have a choice what to watch and what not to watch and their choice will never be "just" a Game (of any kind).
How is it pool's fault it's not popular without being showcased properly? It's all about Show Business, not "game business". :wink:
And this type "acting" should be encouraged. After all it's about entertainment, nothing else. People have a choice what to watch and what not to watch and their choice will never be "just" a Game (of any kind).
How is it pool's fault it's not popular without being showcased properly? It's all about Show Business, not "game business". :wink:
Now it seems like you are talking about a 'gaff' sport ala pro wrestling.
I agree that any sport/game needs personalities that create interest. Tiger Woods has done that in golf, mainly due to his unbelieveable record, and partly because he shows a lot of emotion also.
Pool, IMO, has had many exciting, great matches, and interesting players/characters. Look at Earl and Efren(granted they are on the downsides of their careers, but using them as an example), both have interesting personas, Earl shows a lot of emotion, and great talent. Efren is the 'magacian', that always seemed to play better when the money got high, and was always getting 'lucky'. Just look at Efren's Z-kick shot against Strickland, in a hill-hill situatuion in the finals of a major tournament.
If the promoters that be cannot sell that, then maybe pool can't be sold.
I don't see a lot of gimmicks, uniforms, scoreboards, being a big game changer. But I'm not the one trying to create a more 'sellable' product. You and a few others are, so good luck, I'll see what you come up with.
I agree that any sport/game needs personalities that create interest. Tiger Woods has done that in golf, mainly due to his unbelieveable record, and partly because he shows a lot of emotion also.
Pool, IMO, has had many exciting, great matches, and interesting players/characters. Look at Earl and Efren(granted they are on the downsides of their careers, but using them as an example), both have interesting personas, Earl shows a lot of emotion, and great talent. Efren is the 'magacian', that always seemed to play better when the money got high, and was always getting 'lucky'. Just look at Efren's Z-kick shot against Strickland, in a hill-hill situatuion in the finals of a major tournament.
If the promoters that be cannot sell that, then maybe pool can't be sold.
I don't see a lot of gimmicks, uniforms, scoreboards, being a big game changer. But I'm not the one trying to create a more 'sellable' product. You and a few others are, so good luck, I'll see what you come up with.
it's almost like it's being intentionally done, but surely that can't be
Yes, and one thing that is not done is using professional "character builders" like they use in plays and movies. Minnesota Fats stumbled on this by imitating the character from 'The Hustler', however, it hasn't been done since.
It's amazing to me that no one has done it, but life doesn't always make sense. There's many "common sense" things that has been avoided in pool, it's almost like it's being intentionally done, but surely that can't be the case. :wink:
Yes, and one thing that is not done is using professional "character builders" like they use in plays and movies. Minnesota Fats stumbled on this by imitating the character from 'The Hustler', however, it hasn't been done since.
It's amazing to me that no one has done it, but life doesn't always make sense. There's many "common sense" things that has been avoided in pool, it's almost like it's being intentionally done, but surely that can't be the case. :wink:
Absolutely! Player recognition is key. I don't know how to fix this, but folks that have just a little interest in the game to serious every day players need to have someone they can identify with. Also, we have to do a better job in getting the people that only play every now and then to the tournaments. I'm always amazed when I go to the bigger tournaments how often nothing is to be found in the local media about the tournament. Us fanatics know about the tournament because we read the magazines and forums. I wonder how many learn of the tournament afterwards and say " wish I'd have known". I applaud your efforts CJ!
The "negative image" of pool be damned.
Mic these players up and tell them to be themselves. Say what they wanna say when they're at the table. Or between shots. Only when their opponent steps to the table is the player required to shut their mouth. Let the crowd act like the fans at the Mosconi Cup.
There should be sincere conflict.....and likewise, sincere sportsmanship. Obviously, if you have 2 quiet players that like being respectful to their opponent, so be it.
The players need to be able to show their character. And viewers will be able to identify with those characters/style.
Pool will have to sell its soul to the devil......at least in the beginning. ANY program or sport is dependent on conflict. That's human nature.
Don't make this pro wrestling or roller derby. Just let it be pool.
P.S. Nothing against your idea, CJ. I don't think it's that far removed from the idea I have in my head.
Mic these players up and tell them to be themselves. Say what they wanna say when they're at the table. Or between shots. Only when their opponent steps to the table is the player required to shut their mouth. Let the crowd act like the fans at the Mosconi Cup.
There should be sincere conflict.....and likewise, sincere sportsmanship. Obviously, if you have 2 quiet players that like being respectful to their opponent, so be it.
The players need to be able to show their character. And viewers will be able to identify with those characters/style.
Pool will have to sell its soul to the devil......at least in the beginning. ANY program or sport is dependent on conflict. That's human nature.
Don't make this pro wrestling or roller derby. Just let it be pool.
P.S. Nothing against your idea, CJ. I don't think it's that far removed from the idea I have in my head.
On the contrary, the "good vs evil" scenario is proven to work
On the contrary, the "good vs evil" scenario is proven to work and that is "show business". I just don't think we should let the players "be themselves". The players want to be actors and told what part to play. I know I would like that and it would be a big relief to just play my part and play pool.
I don't think people go see the 'Color of Money' to watch Paul Newman and Tom Cruise "be themselves". I think people want entertainment and we should give them exactly that, in as large a doses as the professional directors advise.
On the contrary, the "good vs evil" scenario is proven to work and that is "show business". I just don't think we should let the players "be themselves". The players want to be actors and told what part to play. I know I would like that and it would be a big relief to just play my part and play pool.
I don't think people go see the 'Color of Money' to watch Paul Newman and Tom Cruise "be themselves". I think people want entertainment and we should give them exactly that, in as large a doses as the professional directors advise.
Haven't read all the posts but isn't this what the TAR matches already are? Without the acting and the hype though.
I think that the closest we came to actual blows has been the Harriman/Schmidt saga of trash talk, before, during, and after their matches.
Well, if it's worth anything and I am sure it's been mentioned, some of the highest rated shows ABC ever had was the Moconi/Fats showdowns on Wide World of Sports. In fact the promoter of those events was Big Fights who normally did the big boxing events.
It's all in RA Dyer's book, The Hustler and The Champ if anyone cares to read it.
I think that the closest we came to actual blows has been the Harriman/Schmidt saga of trash talk, before, during, and after their matches.
Well, if it's worth anything and I am sure it's been mentioned, some of the highest rated shows ABC ever had was the Moconi/Fats showdowns on Wide World of Sports. In fact the promoter of those events was Big Fights who normally did the big boxing events.
It's all in RA Dyer's book, The Hustler and The Champ if anyone cares to read it.
CJ,
With all due respect...for now,
I sincerely hope you are NOT SERIOUS.
If so, maybe you have been talking to the WRONG PEOPLE.
If the players are acting, like pro wrestlers, then the matches are RIGGED too.
That is how any one in the general public will look at it except those that still think pro wrestling is on the up & up.
Pocket Billiards would then be hustling the fish, only the fish would be the entire general public.
The black sox scandel almost killed baseball forever. Check that out.
I think this would be absolutely the most horrible worse thing for the game.
So much so, that I would have to consider giving up playing the game that I love so much, so as to not be guilty by association of being one of the thieving clowns.
Or... I would have to play only at home with all of the doors locked & all of the curtains drawn.
As for you, CJ...you very well could go down in history... as the man that finally ruined pocket billiards forever.
I hope this is just a dabble in opinion research.
The production directors have nothing to lose & only money to gain.
You CJ, on the other hand, have very much to lose.
I sincerely hope your integrity & reputation are worth much more to you than just some amount of money.
I know times are tough right now for Pocket Billiards & Pro Players.
They were tough too in 1935 for James Braddock during The Great Depression.
He could have laid down & simply took his share of the purse. He didn't. He Got Up & Won The World Heavyweight Title.
Maybe, just maybe... He Won Much, Much More Than Just That.
With regrets & my prayers,
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Hello L&L - I love one pocket but it puts me to sleep to watch it. Really, it takes me about 10-15 hours to get through a one hour one pocket match.
When was the last time you saw chess on TV? I think for me it was about 32 years ago when I was 10
I say that the commentators would have to work triple hard to explain the "action" and make it exciting if that's even possible.
What I would love to see on TV is high stakes BY THE GAME action. Put six top players and a four mouthy shortstops in a room with $100,000 and no one gets out until one guy has all the money. They can play any single game they want, handicap it how they want but they have to keep challenging each other to do something until one guy gets all the money.
Make it a $10,000 buy in like poker.
Call it High Stakes Pool and let the cameras roll!
Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, Tony Drago, Darrren Appleton, Scooter Goodman, Jeanette Lee, Earl Strickland, Bustamante, etc.... get some players with heart and emotion in there and let them rumble.
Edited to add: Borrow some of poker's betting strategies and make it where the players get to propose a bet/game and the other player has to counter by matching the bet or proposing some other bet but with bigger stakes. At some point say three "barks" in the players have to either call (play) or forfeit the Ante/Pot.
So for example in this round of betting the players MUST play for a minimum of $1000 per game. Johnny says to everyone I will play one 9 ball - I break for $1000. Whoever accepts the bet has to step up and play or bet more. I imagine something fairly simple can be worked out to where it insures that either someone will play or forfeit the ante. Ok I got it, each player antes, then when the antes are in the player who is on the button so to speak bets first, he says what he will play for and the next person either calls or raises by offering to bet more on the same game or proposing a new game but for MORE money. Has to be more money, only time a call can be made is for the same amount.
So when this is done either someone will play a game for the stakes in the middle or everyone will fold except the last person to bet and he takes the pot.
High Stakes Pool! Get it on baby.
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I'm not a pro, CJ. You're a pro. But, do you think Stevie Moore is going to play a "character" that's not himself, all the while concentrating on playing top flight pool against a natural character in Alex Pagulayan?
I'm just scared that it's going to be akin to pro wrestling, which yes, is highly successful and profitable......but it's not a sport of controlling fine motor muscles like professional pocket billiards.
In the end, I think we all still want to see great pool. Just natural characters built around that.
Looking forward to hearing more about your ideas, however. I'm not one to dismiss any idea out of hand. We all want this sport to be successful.
I'm just scared that it's going to be akin to pro wrestling, which yes, is highly successful and profitable......but it's not a sport of controlling fine motor muscles like professional pocket billiards.
In the end, I think we all still want to see great pool. Just natural characters built around that.
Looking forward to hearing more about your ideas, however. I'm not one to dismiss any idea out of hand. We all want this sport to be successful.
Hello L&L - I love one pocket but it puts me to sleep to watch it. Really, it takes me about 10-15 hours to get through a one hour one pocket match.
When was the last time you saw chess on TV? I think for me it was about 32 years ago when I was 10
I say that the commentators would have to work triple hard to explain the "action" and make it exciting if that's even possible.
What I would love to see on TV is high stakes BY THE GAME action. Put six top players and a four mouthy shortstops in a room with $100,000 and no one gets out until one guy has all the money. They can play any single game they want, handicap it how they want but they have to keep challenging each other to do something until one guy gets all the money.
Make it a $10,000 buy in like poker.
Call it High Stakes Pool and let the cameras roll!
Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, Tony Drago, Darrren Appleton, Scooter Goodman, Jeanette Lee, Earl Strickland, Bustamante, etc.... get some players with heart and emotion in there and let them rumble.
I like this and i agree with JB's view of one pocket 100%
What makes people intrigued with poker is that they know right off the bat that the people they're watching paid a $10k entry fee just to be there and whoever is left standing will be walking out with nearly 8 figures of life changing money.
Whats the biggest pool tournament out there? the US open? and the winner walks out with less than a macdonalds manager.