How much of a difference does a cue make?

Shawn Armstrong said:
I ride motorcycles as a pastime. I ride track days. There are a lot of guys that track ride that show up with 1000cc superbikes.....and they can't ride them to 60% of their full potential. Then there are guys out there on 600s, and even 300s that can absolutely destroy the track. You watch the guys on the big bikes pass on the straightaways, but in the twists, they get left behind. It's the rider, not the bike.

This same thing holds true in pool. You'll find the best players in most of your rooms playing with production cues. There may be the odd custom stick, but the vast majority will be playing with Schon, Predator, Mezz, etc.. A production cue with a good tip will play infinitely better than a custom cue with a bad tip. And you have availability and repeatability in a production cue that you don't with a custom. Let's say you have a problem with your custom stick. You crack a ferrule. Or some other issue. How do you get your hands on something that plays like your custom? With a Predator - you just borrow a teammate's Predator shaft from their cue. And it plays the same as yours. Or....you call Seyberts, and you have a new shaft tomorrow....not next year. Let's say you're at the Vegas tournament. Your 314-3 bites the big one. You run to the trade show floor, and you have another shaft in minutes. Airline loses my luggage? Shit, my cue was in there. Ok...off to the trade show to grab another Predator. Or, I could just borrow my friend's cue with the Predator shaft. You get my point. I didn't have that flexibility when I played with a Thomas Wayne.
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Fun video. Sabine Schmitz tries to go around the Nurnbergring in less than 10 minutes in a VAN! Overtaking guys on racingbikes on her way!:
Part 1 introduction of the van and Sabine Schmitz:wub::
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQJKQjXpGQA
Part 2, the fun part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KiC03_wVjc

Sabine kicking ass in a Porsche:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnJOC_dDXzM
 
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JoeyInCali said:
So why do they play with customs or high dollar cues until a production company PAYS them to play with their cues ?

Do you play with a production cue now ? Or your own ?
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I m sure we both know 100%, that THE VERY MOST PRO S would NEVER pay for a real expensive "High End Cue" (or couldn t afford?).
They usually get it from a cuemaker-- and sell it later....just to make money.
That s it.

I don t know one single Professional who paid or would pay some thousands for an expensive cue.


A perfectly build cue can const 300 bucks- or 5.000 bucks. It s all about beautiness and eye-candy.....and "Ego" (which can mean a lot :p )


may everyone have a smooth stroke.
kind regards from overseas,

Ingo
 
I am not trying to suggest that a difference of 2.8 grams (1/10th oz) is going to make a difference.
However, I am saying that 1/2 oz. (14 grams) or better yet, 3/4 oz (21-22 grams) difference is
something you will notice......Same is true of shafts.......I have a general rule for cue shaft weight
as well which is duly considered in relationship to the cue's playing weight......I do not like to play
with light weight cue shafts........there's a difference in the play of a 3.5 ozs.. shaft versus 4.2 ozs.

All I am suggesting is that a lot of players have not taken the time to experiment with cues. I ask
people all the time about their cues and it seems that no one really knows what size shafts they
play with & sure as heck, people don;t really know what their cues weigh unless it was a custom
built cue. People tend to guess a lot and I measure and weigh their cues right in front of them and
no one seems to ever get it right.......except for the custom cue owners.

I have strict requirements that are steadfast and it makes it hard to find pool cues. I have had to pass
up lots of great cues because the specs were wrong for me.....that's just how I am.....but you would
really have to play with my cues that are all matched to appreciate the consistency I've described
and use someone else's cue. You will feel the difference when the cue is heavier, steel jointed,
or has much lighter weight shafts than my cues. My narrow specs are why I have custom cues built.

All my ivory cues weight 18.45 -18.55 ounces, except for the Prewitt that weighs 18.8 ozs. All my cues
have butts that weigh 14.5 ozs, excpet for the Prewitt (14.6 ozs). All the cues have flat face joints, big
pin threads, ivory ferrules and Kamui Clear Black Soft Tips. Any cue I add has to have these same
specs which is why I do not yet own a Hercek cue.......Hard to find one.......if you play with my cues,
any of them, and switch to a heavier cue as I earlier described, you will notice the difference. Anyone
that's tried my cues has experienced this, not saying which you'd prefer, just that there's a difference.
 
I find it only makes a difference or at least a big diff for niche' shots. Mostly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I LOVE my custom cues..........period!

Can I play just as well with a house cue that happens to have the shaft / butt taper, ferrule and tip I like...........yep.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I am not trying to suggest that a difference of 2.8 grams (1/10th oz) is going to make a difference.
However, I am saying that 1/2 oz. (14 grams) or better yet, 3/4 oz (21-22 grams) difference is
something you will notice......Same is true of shafts.......I have a general rule for cue shaft weight
as well which is duly considered in relationship to the cue's playing weight......I do not like to play
with light weight cue shafts........there's a difference in the play of a 3.5 ozs.. shaft versus 4.2 ozs.

All I am suggesting is that a lot of players have not taken the time to experiment with cues. I ask
people all the time about their cues and it seems that no one really knows what size shafts they
play with & sure as heck, people don;t really know what their cues weigh unless it was a custom
built cue. People tend to guess a lot and I measure and weigh their cues right in front of them and
no one seems to ever get it right.......except for the custom cue owners.

I have strict requirements that are steadfast and it makes it hard to find pool cues. I have had to pass
up lots of great cues because the specs were wrong for me.....that's just how I am.....but you would
really have to play with my cues that are all matched to appreciate the consistency I've described
and use someone else's cue. You will feel the difference when the cue is heavier, steel jointed,
or has much lighter weight shafts than my cues. My narrow specs are why I have custom cues built.

All my ivory cues weight 18.45 -18.55 ounces, except for the Prewitt that weighs 18.8 ozs. All my cues
have butts that weigh 14.5 ozs, excpet for the Prewitt (14.6 ozs). All the cues have flat face joints, big
pin threads, ivory ferrules and Kamui Clear Black Soft Tips. Any cue I add has to have these same
specs which is why I do not yet own a Hercek cue.......Hard to find one.......if you play with my cues,
any of them, and switch to a heavier cue as I earlier described, you will notice the difference. Anyone
that's tried my cues has experienced this, not saying which you'd prefer, just that there's a difference.
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What's your APA ranking?
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
"Feel" is overrated. I'd rather play with a dead hitting cue that plays lights out, than a great feeling cue that I can't do anything with. Any of the soft ferruled cues lack feel vs a harder ferrule. But they also play better. And I can change the feel of a cue by changing the tip. As long as it's reasonably straight, with a decent tip, it has the potential to run balls. It will all depend on the guy holding the cue.

Any "boost" in playing ability that comes from a new cue is a placebo effect I call "cuephoria". Ever put a cue away for awhile because you weren't sure you liked it, and then broke it out 9 months later and played well with it? The cue didn't change. Yet somehow...you have forgotten what you didn't like about it. Again...feel is subjective, is temperamental, and is vastly overrated.
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You must have a different definition of "feel". A cue that plays "lights out" to me has the feel that's important to me. No, I've never put a cue away I didn't like, I SOLD it. Overrated my ass.
 
Pushout said:
You must have a different definition of "feel". A cue that plays "lights out" to me has the feel that's important to me. No, I've never put a cue away I didn't like, I SOLD it. Overrated my ass.
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Lol. If you want a monster player, the FS section is FULL of them........as well as cues that play "lights out"......
 
to paraphrase a wise(ass?) old one legged guy from the Ballroom in NJ, simply, "A good cue is only gonna let you shoot as well as YOU can shoot"
 
I do not play on 7' tables, despite being recruited to play on local APA teams all the time.
If you stop by the pool hall, you will always find me on a 9' table. I don't like the snooker
pockets on the 10' tables in town and am trying to get Blue Fin Billiards to convert the 10'
table to pocket billiards since Tommy has the extra rails. Nope, you won't find me on 7 ft.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I do not play on 7' tables, despite being recruited to play on local APA teams all the time.
If you stop by the pool hall, you will always find me on a 9' table. I don't like the snooker
pockets on the 10' tables in town and am trying to get Blue Fin Billiards to convert the 10'
table to pocket billiards since Tommy has the extra rails. Nope, you won't find me on 7 ft.
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Must be an American snooker table. Real snooker tables are 6x12.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
But I truly wonder if he knows the weight of the shaft, the butt, their dimensions, and their respective balance points.
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Hehe. I beat my friend at pool once, with a broom. He still gets pissed off when I bring it up (which I do often, lol), but I don't think I could do a snooker line up this well with one. He's got some talent, that guy.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Ok...I've read on here that Black Boar charges close to 1000 dollars for a shaft. Now, bearing in mind that opinions may vary, the Predator 314 hits like a pile of puke IMO. It performs ok, but the hit is terrible. Try to compare the hit to a Mezz or a proper custom shaft, and it's not even in the same league. I'd expect the hit of the Black Boar to run circles around the Predator, otherwise you should get your money back! Especially since the Predator is made from wood that was rejected at the matchstick factory and Black Boar uses wood that has been blessed by angels (I'm guessing, based on the price).

I don't think I could be a cuemaker, based on what I'm reading here. These guys are spending months selecting woods, taking shafts down in tiny increments over long periods of time, then people reject the shaft and put on something that 14 year old slaves in some sweaty hell-hole slapped together in an afternoon..If that's not an insult, I don't know what is! I own several Predator shafts and used to be a big time fan (before I knew what quality is) Still use the shafts on occation, but even I must admit that the quality is ABOMINABLE! The wood is porous and spongy and all around terrible. The lamination is prone to splits and cracks and the ferrule is made of such inferior plastics that it would make a toy manufacturer blush. I mean putting these on a fancy custom is pretty much the same as going to a fancy restaurant and then smothering every dish in ketchup. You get kicked out for that, some places.

Buying a 5-10 k cue, the shafts should be nothing short of FANTASTIC. If not, you were ripped off. I'm a huge fan of BB's designs, and think they are among the nicest cues around, when it comes to aestetics. If any of that attention to detail is applied to shafts, they ought to be great as well. Since it is a "CUSTOM" cue, YOU should be the one to specify the taper/diameter/ferrule to your liking, also. Otherwise, what is the point? If you can't specify the shafts to outperform a 314, or the cuemaker can't deliver on that, then you should not buy that cue. Buy a Predator, no wait, don't. Buy a Mezz. You won't be sorry.
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I have numerous laminate shafts and a Wd Mezz shaft a few 10 yrs old yet to have one split , hit is subjective I probably don't have soft enough hands being in construction to feel the hit as you might I might wash my dishes in Palmolive so it softens them up a little
The WD plays very good I agree better than 314 but mine had been retipped a couple of times and was cleaned and taken down too much didn't play the same ,, something I'm aware of now and I don't let them do that now

1
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Lol. Mickelson actually rose in the rankings his first year with Callaway. Same with Sergio Garcia. And they don't struggle. The pros don't magically gain 5 strokes per round because they went to a different brand of club. Tiger went from Titleist to Nike. And he still stayed #1.

Great specs on the cues. You're still an APA 5, right? :)
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Actual tigers Nike clubs were built to Titlest specs that was a Mizuno spec never released to the public .. as was his putter Scotty Cameron copy of ping answer 2

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one stroke said:
I have numerous laminate shafts and a Wd Mezz shaft a few 10 yrs old yet to have one split , hit is subjective I probably don't have soft enough hands being in construction to feel the hit as you might I might wash my dishes in Palmolive so it softens them up a little
The WD plays very good I agree better than 314 but mine had been retipped a couple of times and was cleaned and taken down too much didn't play the same ,, something I'm aware of now and I don't let them do that now

1
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I had to change the ferrule of my original 314. I had a harder ferrule installed, similar to the ones used in the 314¨3 series. It improved the hit slightly. Once you start seeing little cracks in the wood around the ferrule or a major one in the ferrule itself, the 314 is pretty much done for unless you take immidiate measures. One hard shot will destroy it. I noticed a hairline crack in the ferrule and switched it in time, so I still have it.

I've seen several 314 disintegrate before my eyes and my Z2 developed a rattle. In fairness I shot A LOT of jumpshots with it. I like to jump with a full cue, because I can. This, obviously, is not a smart thing to do with such a shaft, so that's on me. Most Z's ands Z2's that have belonged to friends of mine are now out of commision for one reason or another. They were not as reckless as me. The construction of these shafts is rather fragile, and the ferrule is not very solid.
 
one stroke said:
Actual tigers Nike clubs were built to Titlest specs that was a Mizuno spec never released to the public .. as was his putter Scotty Cameron copy of ping answer 2

1
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He actually went through a whole bunch of sets. There was never a set made to a "Mizuno spec". Tiger's Mizuno set was a mix of two different sets of clubs. You can have a great read here:
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1174965-true-timeline-of-tiger-woods-irons/

Oh, and despite changing clubs that often....he remained #1. :)
 
JoeyInCali said:
Tad did not pay players to play with his cue.
SW does not pay those Taiwanese and Chinese players to play with their cues. In fact, they happily pay for SW's prices.

Not too many pros would play with off the rack cues unless they were paid to do so.
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FWIW: It is said that Bugs Rucker never owned a cue.
 
asiasdad said:
FWIW: It is said that Bugs Rucker never owned a cue.
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That was a FACT. And yeah, I saw Bugs play a lot. Lots of folks gave him cues, but he'd just sell them anyways and play with a house cue :thumbup:
 
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