how nappy is championship cloth

hi

i figured championship headquarters is in chicago so i call them american because im sure they employ many people in usa.
also realkingcobra does fantastic work,anything to do with a pool table hes your guy trust me.
i luv how championship cloth plays especially if glen puts it on.
 
realkingcobra said:
I've spent the last 30 years putting cloth on pool tables, so I think that sort of makes me an expert at what I do for a living, how about you...what do you do for a living, work on pool tables?;)
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Glen, care to enlighten us on the differences between 3030 and 860?

Thanks.

-roger
 
john schmidt said:
i figured championship headquarters is in chicago so i call them american because im sure they employ many people in usa.
also realkingcobra does fantastic work,anything to do with a pool table hes your guy trust me.
i luv how championship cloth plays especially if glen puts it on.
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Thank you John, and you're 100% right about how the 3030 plays IF it's installed CORRECTLY and TIGHT, as all cloths play better when installed right...which is why I made the cloth installation DVDs for Simonis, in time I'll make the same kind od DVDs for all the cloths Championship produces, so installers know how to install the Championship cloth correctly.

Glen
 
Cobra, which is the better cloth for a 9ft GC3 if you want it to play fast in your opinion? I am in the process of putting one at the house and would love to have your opinion. Being in GA we have a ton of humidity as well.
 
buddha162 said:
Glen, care to enlighten us on the differences between 3030 and 860?

Thanks.

-roger
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Sure, the 3030 has a 70% wool/30% nylon blend, with a higher than Simonis thread count per inch than Simonis, whereas Simonis actually has two different weaves of the 860, the first is the normal 860 90% wool/10% nylon, the second is the 860HR with 70% wool/30% nylon weave, both weaves are based on a thead count of 177 threads per inch, in which the lower thread count gives it a softer surface feel to the cloth than fhe 3030. When comparing the two different cloths, 3030 would be best compared to the 860HR because of the 30% nylon content used in both cloths.
 
Cloth

realkingcobra said:
I get a kick out of threads like this, as they remind me of how little people really know about the industry I work in, which also explains why there's so many import tables sold in this country instead of American made, built right here in the USA. First of all, someone mentioned Championship as being an "American" company...LOL...what's "AMERICAN" about it? Everything they sell to Americans, comes by way of MADE in other countries, like their cloth comes from Mexico...so what Americans are employed making their cloth at the factory mills? And when people talk about indorcing ChAMPIONSHIP cloth as the best, which blend of cloth are you talking about, or do you even know as Championship makes SEVERAL different weaves of cloth, woorsted and non-woorsted, do most of you even know the difference?
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-
Boy I'm happy you stopped by, I planned on informing these folks about cloth but I may need back up' Glen educated many people about pool/Billiards supplies&equipment, he knows what he does because he has collected a lot of info and been observant along his workings to understand what and why the obvious and not so obvious things happen..
-Can anyone besides glen tell by looking exactly what I posted photos of?
Rob.M
 
3030 would be best compared to the 860HR because of the 30% nylon content used in both cloths.[/QUOTE]
-
I know what you ment but some would take it as you saying 3030 is the best compaired to simonis...
That's true in saying the cloths have the same amount of percentage in wool/nylon blebutyl believe your saying ment - they are best if compaired to each other because of the the cloths same blend but have several characteristics that set them apart.
-
Thz
Rob.M
 
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eddie0776 said:
Cobra, which is the better cloth for a 9ft GC3 if you want it to play fast in your opinion? I am in the process of putting one at the house and would love to have your opinion. Being in GA we have a ton of humidity as well.
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There's a little more to it than cloth that makes a table play fast such as the condition of the rails, how tight the clotb is, and the condition of the balls. As for humidity resistant, a 30% nylon blended woorsted wool cloth will be a good start, I happen to like Simonis the most, but if you wanted Championship 3030, it's not my job to try and talk you out of it, it is however to insfall it...if I'm the one doing the work:thumbup:
 
Some Factory know how

Just caught this thread and thought I should shed some Factory know how here about 3030.

When you hear installers talk about stretch in cloth and try to correlate
that amount of stretch to anything other than what it is, stretch, they are wrong. Simonis has one amount of stretch built into it and Championship has another.

The reason that Championship built in extra amounts of stretch is help the cloth absorb the mis cues and friction marks that occur in billiards and ultimately create the holes you see in Simonis cloth and eventually in Championship cloth.

The weight of Championship's cloth will always outlast Simonis and if it's installed correctly, it will with stand the mis cues and friction marks much longer as well which all results in longer wear and better playing and looking tables longer.

There is a tremendous amount of science that goes into making a Worsted and both companies achieve their goals in different manors. Championship has always over constructed their cloth, resulting in much longer wear no matter if you compare a 70/30 to a 70/30 or a 90/10, over construction and heavier weights will always outlast lighter weights and feels, it has nothing to do with the speed of play, that comes from finishing.

Sorry to be so technical but I have been reading Installers points of views and it was time to hear from the factory on this subject.

Installation feels and stretches are personal things that each installer feels or becomes accustom too and each cloth has its own stretch characteristics built into the construction plan for that cloth and remember Worsted and Woolens are completely different construction plans.

One is finished on loom and other is finished off, too much for now.
 
And some side notes/facts -

If doing a comparison between Championship and Simonis you compare 3030 to either 760 or 860 hr, not to regular 860

Championship sells only 1 worsted cloth (3030). The rest of their cloths are woolens (napped). All styles are made in Mexico and imported for sale thru Championship in Chicago.

Simonis manufactures (Belgium) and sells only worsted cloth. In the US it would be thru Simonis N.A. located also in Chicago (Libertyville).

3030, 760, HR and 860 are all excellent cloths however as Glen mentioned, best playability comes from the quality of the install.
 
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Dartman said:
And some side notes/facts -

If doing a comparison between Championship and Simonis you compare 3030 to either 760 or 860 hr, not to regular 860

Championship sells only 1 worsted cloth (3030). The rest of their cloths are woolens (napped). All styles are made in Mexico and imported for sale thru Championship in Chicago.

Simonis manufactures (Belgium) and sells only worsted cloth. In the US it would be thru Simonis N.A. located also in Chicago (Libertyville).

3030, 760, HR and 860 are all excellent cloths however as Glen mentioned, best playability comes from the quality of the install.
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I agree and that is why I am having Glen do my (new to me) Diamond!:thumbup::thumbup:
The table has simonis on it now and it will have new soon I hope..
As for cloth I have used both and both play good, with slight differences.
I have said before that when I needed cloth for the Jr High billiards club I started, I called Simonis and they had be cloth the next day (comp).
Not to say Championship would not have, I do not know.
Mark
 
Just want to clarify

Dartman said:
And some side notes/facts -

If doing a comparison between Championship and Simonis you compare 3030 to either 760 or 860 hr, not to regular 860

Championship sells only 1 worsted cloth (3030). The rest of their cloths are woolens (napped). All styles are made in Mexico and imported for sale thru Championship in Chicago.

Simonis manufactures (Belgium) and sells only worsted cloth. In the US it would be thru Simonis N.A. located also in Chicago (Libertyville).

3030, 760, HR and 860 are all excellent cloths however as Glen mentioned, best playability comes from the quality of the install.
Click to expand...

Just to be accurate with the threads that have been going on. I'll chime in and give you the Accurate Facts about Championships Line of Cloth. Most of what has been said is true however there are a few things that should be corrected.

Championship Worsted cloths include the following.

Tour Edition 3030 24 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Pro Am 3020 21 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Championship Worsted Ultra 21 oz. Tournament Cloth with Teflon for the Coin Operated Industry.

All three of the Worsted Cloths are over constructed for long lasting wear in a commercial environment. They will all outlast their competition or your money back.

The Blend of the yarn being 70/30 or 90/10 or 88/12 has nothing to do with the quality of the playability or accuracy of the roll of the ball, that could be influenced in the installation but has no bearing on the play.

It's like a putting green that could be of different seeds but both are played on on the pro tour and acceptable. 860, 760 or 860 HR should be compared to 3030 or 3020, they are both Tournament grade products and both are used for the same purpose. However some will out last others based on construction.

Both are brands make quality products and competition is good.
 
I've had Simonis 860 on my Diamond Professional table since August 1st, 2001(over 11 1/2 years) and I'm not even close to replacing it. Some may think.......well, you must not play on it very much. Wrong! I couldn't accuratly put a number on the hours of play I've put on this cloth, but I'd say it's between 5,000 to 8,000 hours of play. When it was 1st installed, I was told that I'd need to replace my cloth every 2 or 3 years, but I've yet to replace it. I vacuum it once in a blue moon, but it still rolls and plays great. The only thing I consistantly do to keep it in good shape is to break off a dollar bill (this will keep you from boring a hole in the break areas of your table).I jump and masse all the time and I don't worry about any cloth damage.But I can't stress enough to the OP, make sure to break off a dollar bill or a break pad if you want to stretch the life of the cloth you choose. My choice was Simonis 860 and I think it's the best.Nothing against Championship, it just comes in 2nd IMO.
 
seyaltr said:
Just to be accurate with the threads that have been going on. I'll chime in and give you the Accurate Facts about Championships Line of Cloth. Most of what has been said is true however there are a few things that should be corrected.

Championship Worsted cloths include the following.

Tour Edition 3030 24 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Pro Am 3020 21 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Championship Worsted Ultra 21 oz. Tournament Cloth with Teflon for the Coin Operated Industry.

All three of the Worsted Cloths are over constructed for long lasting wear in a commercial environment. They will all outlast their competition or your money back.

The Blend of the yarn being 70/30 or 90/10 or 88/12 has nothing to do with the quality of the playability or accuracy of the roll of the ball, that could be influenced in the installation but has no bearing on the play.

It's like a putting green that could be of different seeds but both are played on on the pro tour and acceptable. 860, 760 or 860 HR should be compared to 3030 or 3020, they are both Tournament grade products and both are used for the same purpose. However some will out last others based on construction.

Both are brands make quality products and competition is good.
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Why even bother throwing in the weight of cloth per yard, unless you include how wide that cloth is per running yard? I bolt of 860HR at 78" wide weighs more per running yard than a bolt of 860HR 66" wide, so does that make the 78" wide cloth better?...when enough cloth from either bolt of cloth is used to cover a 9ft table, don't the same amount of cloth from either bolt of cloth weigh the exact same?
 
hi

i feel championship and simonis are both awesome.
i has way more to do with who puts it on etc.
lets say u go to a buddies house and he has championship,put on not tight enough,humid air,balls dirty .then u go to other friends house and glen puts on championship cloth correctly,balls are clean ,dry air ,vacuum cloth etc . u would say championship cloth is great.

in closing championship cloth is as good or better then any cloth out there but its got to b put on right,cleaned etc like any other cloth.

if any body needs there home table or poolroom done believe me call realkingcobra ,get ahold of mike serra at championship cloth and believe me your table or tables will play perfect.
its like anything in life go with quality and u end up happier in long run.
 
seyaltr said:
Just to be accurate with the threads that have been going on. I'll chime in and give you the Accurate Facts about Championships Line of Cloth. Most of what has been said is true however there are a few things that should be corrected.

Championship Worsted cloths include the following.

Tour Edition 3030 24 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Pro Am 3020 21 oz. Tournament Worsted Cloth 70/30 Blend

Championship Worsted Ultra 21 oz. Tournament Cloth with Teflon for the Coin Operated Industry.

All three of the Worsted Cloths are over constructed for long lasting wear in a commercial environment. They will all outlast their competition or your money back.

The Blend of the yarn being 70/30 or 90/10 or 88/12 has nothing to do with the quality of the playability or accuracy of the roll of the ball, that could be influenced in the installation but has no bearing on the play.

It's like a putting green that could be of different seeds but both are played on on the pro tour and acceptable. 860, 760 or 860 HR should be compared to 3030 or 3020, they are both Tournament grade products and both are used for the same purpose. However some will out last others based on construction.

Both are brands make quality products and competition is good.
Click to expand...

Thank you for chiming in. It's nice to have someone here who knows what he's talking about.
 
I have also used Granito basalt on my table..I liked it as well..
I was surprized that no one made mention of Corinas cloths..
They've been around as long as Simonis..I'm good with all three..
I'm sure there are others..just haven't used them..next recover is
this summer..I'll be going with Simonis this time..the friends are pitching,
so I'll go with what they'd like to play on..two years an I'll recover again..
 
Thanks for being patient with us morons on the forum and educating us. You are such a blessing.

realkingcobra said:
I get a kick out of threads like this, as they remind me of how little people really know about the industry I work in, which also explains why there's so many import tables sold in this country instead of American made, built right here in the USA. First of all, someone mentioned Championship as being an "American" company...LOL...what's "AMERICAN" about it? Everything they sell to Americans, comes by way of MADE in other countries, like their cloth comes from Mexico...so what Americans are employed making their cloth at the factory mills? And when people talk about indorcing ChAMPIONSHIP cloth as the best, which blend of cloth are you talking about, or do you even know as Championship makes SEVERAL different weaves of cloth, woorsted and non-woorsted, do most of you even know the difference?
Click to expand...
 
Hungarian said:
Thanks for being patient with us morons on the forum and educating us. You are such a blessing.
Click to expand...

I didn't take what op said personally..I got a chuckle out of it..
heck you can google anything an answer your own questions right.
Thanks for giggle...have a great weekend.
 
I like the cloth from the old days where you had to have a stroke to play.

Now-a-days anyone who can bink and tap balls around gently can run out.

What kind of cloth did the IPT use?

What kind of cloth requires a 'real' stroke and lasts a long time?
 
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