How strong is Karen Corr?

rackmsuckr said:
She is DEFINITELY not afraid of the slow cloth and being a snooker player, the tighter pockets favor both her and Karen over some of the males.
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Do you really think any of the male pros would be pros if they couldn't hit the center of the pocket consistently? I don't think Allison and Karen have an advantage over anyone, including you. You are a very good 8-ball player, and I would suspect you would play the game more strategically than both of them.
 
Let me ask you ..

Rickw said:
This post makes the most sense to me regarding why Allison would not play Mike Sigel. She comes from England and snooker where I have heard that you are expected to behave like a lady or a gentleman. The rules of etiquette are strictly enforced in that game from what I've heard. When you've played in that kind of environment for as long as Allison did, I'm sure that those rules have become a part of her character and will be with her always. It would be nice if we had similar rules of etiquette in pool.
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If you think Allison and Karen are going to handle the problems
and complexities of 8 ball well, how come I have never heard,
nor you probably, of any woman pro that is an expert 1 pocket
player? I play pool with the last year's woman BCA national
Champion. In 9 ball, I give her the breaks and wild 7. In 8 ball,
she shoots some of the oddest ball patterns. Yes, she gets out
part of the time, but she gets out of line and her choice of shots
is suspect a lot of the time. I told her she had ball patterns down
pretty good for 9 ball, but needs work on her 8 ball game. Women
do not play 8 ball like men do. Their reasoning is different. Many
times they take a shot they shouldn't at that time for the run, but
they do, and get in trouble later on. The best woman players in
8 ball are the ones that play Pool like a man does, which are rare
to come across.
 
Karen is soo strong because she can keep her focus and concentration against the men while some men who dont have a strong enough focus will be distracted by her while they are playing her lol
 
Snapshot9 said:
Women do not play 8 ball like men do. Their reasoning is different.
Click to expand...

WOW! That is probably the best statement I have ever seen with regard to women and men in pool. I suspect you are right. I play alot with my husband and he tells me all the time that I am shooting the wrong ball or my paterns are odd...that I am doing it much too complicated. He has come to stop me when he sees I have a run out and ask me what my plan is...of course it is TOTALLY diffrent than his. Personally, as they say, I think there is more than one way to skin a cat...his way my be right for him...but not for me. I know my ability and I do see shots diffrent than him...and I go with what I am comfortable with. I can still win the game taking a diffrent route...there is not a designated course in 8-ball.
 
Snapshot9 said:
The best woman players in
8 ball are the ones that play Pool like a man does, which are rare
to come across.
Click to expand...

This is true, Bonnie Plowman is one of Canada's most successful 8-ball players on the women's side. She is one of the few that plays the power game of pool, much like most men. She shoots shots with authority, breaks hard, and uses alot of spin to move the cueball around. She is very dominate on the Canada 8-ball scene. On the other hand she is not nearly at the top in 9-ball.

The best 9-ball players are NOT normally the best 8-ball players and the conditions of the tables on the IPT are going to make that even more true then normal.
 
Snapshot9 said:
If you think Allison and Karen are going to handle the problems
and complexities of 8 ball well, how come I have never heard,
nor you probably, of any woman pro that is an expert 1 pocket
player? I play pool with the last year's woman BCA national
Champion. In 9 ball, I give her the breaks and wild 7. In 8 ball,
she shoots some of the oddest ball patterns. Yes, she gets out
part of the time, but she gets out of line and her choice of shots
is suspect a lot of the time. I told her she had ball patterns down
pretty good for 9 ball, but needs work on her 8 ball game. Women
do not play 8 ball like men do. Their reasoning is different. Many
times they take a shot they shouldn't at that time for the run, but
they do, and get in trouble later on. The best woman players in
8 ball are the ones that play Pool like a man does, which are rare
to come across.
Click to expand...

Well, actually I know some women that play pretty sporty one-hole. I will NOT tell you who they are because they are undercover. I can tell you that Kelly Fisher would be a JAM UP one pocket player IF she decided to take up that game.

Kelly took second place to Tammie Jones in her first and only BCA Amateur Tourament in Vegas. She played as a master level player.

I think the snooker ladies will adapt fairly quickly. Sarah Ellerby is an English 8-ball champion. Different rules for sure, but probably some similarities.

I doubt that the reason you don't see or hear of ladies who are publicly known one pocket experts is that there is NO MONEY in being known as a one pocket champion. Why should any of the ladies devote a lot of time to really learning the game when there is no money in it?

I would be willing to bet that if Cliff, Efren, Scott Frost or Ronnie Allen were to take Allison, Karen, or Kelly under their wing for a couple months you would see some fierce one pocket players emerging from those three. For that matter, who can say for sure that Karen hasn't dabbled in one-hole by being under the tutelage of the Fuscos.

John
 
LastTwo said:
Do you really think any of the male pros would be pros if they couldn't hit the center of the pocket consistently? I don't think Allison and Karen have an advantage over anyone, including you. You are a very good 8-ball player, and I would suspect you would play the game more strategically than both of them.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the vote of confidence. That is why I qualified my statement by saying SOME of the men. Monday, on league night, I did have TR's on 3 out of 6 games (on an 8 footer, and 1 was out of 2 practice games). I remember playing Aileen Pippen in Canada at an 8ball tourney. She was so confused by the mass of options to shoot and couldn't figure out any patterns so I won easily in a race to 5. But I am sure those not familiar with 8ball will catch on quickly and are getting coaching as we speak. Running the rack 50% still isn't world champion material, but I did end up winning another couple games from safety play. :rolleyes:

Which means I may need bigger pockets! lol
 
Snapshot9 said:
If you think Allison and Karen are going to handle the problems
and complexities of 8 ball well, how come I have never heard,
nor you probably, of any woman pro that is an expert 1 pocket
player? I play pool with the last year's woman BCA national
Champion. In 9 ball, I give her the breaks and wild 7. In 8 ball,
she shoots some of the oddest ball patterns. Yes, she gets out
part of the time, but she gets out of line and her choice of shots
is suspect a lot of the time. I told her she had ball patterns down
pretty good for 9 ball, but needs work on her 8 ball game. Women
do not play 8 ball like men do. Their reasoning is different. Many
times they take a shot they shouldn't at that time for the run, but
they do, and get in trouble later on. The best woman players in
8 ball are the ones that play Pool like a man does, which are rare
to come across.
Click to expand...

OK, Scott, I'm not going to tell you that I think exactly like a guy and I know I make mistakes too, but my theory in 8 ball is this - survey the table, run out if you can (figuring backwards from the 8 ball) and start digging out my trouble balls early, hopefully without improving the lie of my opponent's balls. If I get in trouble early, especially if mixed with my opponent's balls, I will duck and maybe let them have a shot at it. It depends on what the cluster looks like too. I may save it when one of my balls 'go', knowing they can't shoot it without a breakout, and I can at any time. I might try to tie one of theirs up if I can't get out.

One thing that favors me and my shooting ability in 8ball over 9ball is when I would miss in 9ball, the ball would hang for the opponent, whereas in 8ball, it is sometimes an advantage to hang a ball to control the pocket and block other access to that pocket. I try to move their blockers as soon as I can too.

The same safeties in 9ball where you try to leave rail to rail don't work either, as you do NOT want your balls on end rails. So instead of missing on the 'pro' side of overcutting, in 8 ball a lot of times you want to undercut so that in the event of a miss, it comes up table. You also want to play pocket speed on some shots to block the pocket. You usually play zone - taking out the balls in one half of the table and using an intermediate ball by the side to travel down table, hopefully the section with the 8 ball. Occasionally, those patterns are forced to change or I see a better one while I am shooting, but ordinarily, I pretty much already know what my patterns are going to be.

So there are a lot of nuances about 8 ball that I feel I do 'get'. Like 9 ball, I am always looking to play 3-4 balls ahead and try to get the perfect angle for breakouts, calculating where the best spot of impact may be and where whitey will land and lessen the chance of scratching or making the 8 early - both of which I am always aware of.

So I may not think like a man, but I believe I think enough like a player to get the job done, if given an opening, if I can just make the balls. :p

Linda

Btw to another post I saw about women and one pocket - I LOVE to play one-hole. Once I ran 8 and out banking every shot long rail (always protecting whitey) on a 9 footer with tight pockets. I've even been known to make a ball on the break. :rolleyes: I am pretty good at looking at the stack to see what is wired or makeable. I think one reason women don't play it is because you almost have to be one of the boys in the poolroom, and most women don't want to gamble and that's how you get a lot of practice and seasoning at 1-pocket. Also, women aren't always really patient. I like to go for my hole a lot, which is probably my strength anyway. lol
 
Snapshot9 said:
If you think Allison and Karen are going to handle the problems
and complexities of 8 ball well, how come I have never heard,
nor you probably, of any woman pro that is an expert 1 pocket
player? .
Click to expand...

Scott,

Allison and Karen didn't know how to play 9b before they came here either. I think we're going to have to just wait and see how they do. All I can say is that I'm really looking forward to this IPT thing. I hope it's going to be as exciting as I think it's going to be.
 
styles

A lot comes down to styles of play. Some of the best men are from the Philippines and they definitely don't use "conventional" patterns. I'm very interested in seeing the older Hall of Famers play the current shooters, again because of likely differences in style. The ladies may be far more competitive than anticipated because of their style of shooting too.

Playing chess, I used to be able to beat a far better player fairly consistently. The reason was simple, I had played dozens of games with him and knew his style and equally importantly, what he expected the other player to do. I think that this may be an issue when the top men of today play the women and old guard. Time will tell but I'm really interested in seeing how cunning fairs against what may be greater physical gifts at the moment. This may be the main reason I am looking forward to the IPT since I'm not one of the players.

Hu


rackmsuckr said:
OK, Scott, I'm not going to tell you that I think exactly like a guy and I know I make mistakes too, but my theory in 8 ball is this - survey the table, run out if you can (figuring backwards from the 8 ball) and start digging out my trouble balls early, hopefully without improving the lie of my opponent's balls. If I get in trouble early, especially if mixed with my opponent's balls, I will duck and maybe let them have a shot at it. It depends on what the cluster looks like too. I may save it when one of my balls 'go', knowing they can't shoot it without a breakout, and I can at any time. I might try to tie one of theirs up if I can't get out.

One thing that favors me and my shooting ability in 8ball over 9ball is when I would miss in 9ball, the ball would hang for the opponent, whereas in 8ball, it is sometimes an advantage to hang a ball to control the pocket and block other access to that pocket. I try to move their blockers as soon as I can too.

The same safeties in 9ball where you try to leave rail to rail don't work either, as you do NOT want your balls on end rails. So instead of missing on the 'pro' side of overcutting, in 8 ball a lot of times you want to undercut so that in the event of a miss, it comes up table. You also want to play pocket speed on some shots to block the pocket. You usually play zone - taking out the balls in one half of the table and using an intermediate ball by the side to travel down table, hopefully the section with the 8 ball. Occasionally, those patterns are forced to change or I see a better one while I am shooting, but ordinarily, I pretty much already know what my patterns are going to be.

So there are a lot of nuances about 8 ball that I feel I do 'get'. Like 9 ball, I am always looking to play 3-4 balls ahead and try to get the perfect angle for breakouts, calculating where the best spot of impact may be and where whitey will land and lessen the chance of scratching or making the 8 early - both of which I am always aware of.

So I may not think like a man, but I believe I think enough like a player to get the job done, if given an opening, if I can just make the balls. :p

Linda

Btw to another post I saw about women and one pocket - I LOVE to play one-hole. Once I ran 8 and out banking every shot long rail (always protecting whitey) on a 9 footer with tight pockets. I've even been known to make a ball on the break. :rolleyes: I am pretty good at looking at the stack to see what is wired or makeable. I think one reason women don't play it is because you almost have to be one of the boys in the poolroom, and most women don't want to gamble and that's how you get a lot of practice and seasoning at 1-pocket. Also, women aren't always really patient. I like to go for my hole a lot, which is probably my strength anyway. lol
Click to expand...
 
Thank you ..

for your insights. In my region, I do not get much exposure
to pro women players, other than watching them on TV,
and 90% of the time it is Allison & Karen. Saw Vivian on
TV yesterday playing a match. She is fun to watch.
The best women fro my whole region are usually shortstops
knocking on the pro door. Some turned pro for awhile, but
most have gone on to other parts of their lives. Julie Mason
used to hang here before getting hooked up with Coy Lee.
Tulsa and OKC girls were good. A few from Mo. or Iowa.
I am old school, and I think Jean Balukas was the best ever-
Allison or no Allison. I believe Jean won 19 titles, which I do
not think Allison has broken yet.

Women, in my region, do not seem to have the type of
dedication to the sport that it takes to advance to the
higher levels or want to, 1 or the other. They hardly ever
fill a tournament even though their event is half or less
the entries of the Open event. It is such a shame though,
because when Michelle Thompson here won the BCA National
Championship last year in Vegas, we couldn't even get our
newspaper to put something in about her winning. I have
a real problem with newspapers just totally ignoring our sport.
 
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