I'm going to be playing a lot of pool and I have heard many talk about playing the ghost. I have no idea how to play it. Can someone enlighten me by telling what it is and the rules?
How to play the ghost?
- Thread starter Jason Koopman
- Start date
People go by different rules. Here's how I do it in 9 ball.
Basically, I play the ghost in races to 7. I break and take ball in hand on the 1 ball. If you don't run the table, you lose. 9 on the break doesn't count as a win. Scratch on the break doesn't count as a loss.
To get consistent results, I highly recommend using the Magic Rack. What a treat it is to have a perfectly frozen rack every time with fewer balls being tied up.
Paying close attention to the pattern on the first few balls and planning your entire table really helps.
I use the ghost to simulate the pressure of a match. The scores generally also tell me if I'm in stroke or not.
Chris
Thanks for the reply, I've done this before many times but didn't realize it was called playing the ghost.
It is played several different ways.....more or less depends on the person. Regardless of the rules the main thing that doesn't change is if you do not run out you lose the game.
A way I play is I only take BIH if I do not have a shot (a reasonable shot) after the break, 9 on the break gives me BIH and I still have to run out for a win and race to 10. I did start with BIH after the break always and have progressed to this. My next method will be absolutely no BIH after the break, 9 on the break counts, you need a ball after the break to continue and run out to win. I might include lockup safeties on the 1, but they would have to be really really good safeties to count. Finally I will go with break and runs only.
A way I play is I only take BIH if I do not have a shot (a reasonable shot) after the break, 9 on the break gives me BIH and I still have to run out for a win and race to 10. I did start with BIH after the break always and have progressed to this. My next method will be absolutely no BIH after the break, 9 on the break counts, you need a ball after the break to continue and run out to win. I might include lockup safeties on the 1, but they would have to be really really good safeties to count. Finally I will go with break and runs only.
I have a few variations of playing the ghost I will share. First, to get warmed up I will try to run out from my break without taking ball in hand. The first time I do this counts as my first win against the ghost and then I start taking ball in hand. Might sound like cheating or whatever but the ghost is a seriously tough opponent on my table and it takes me a little while to get loose so it helps with that.
Another thing I like to do since I play in a few 8 ball tournaments is rack up some 8 ball, break and try to run out stripes. I guess I play BIH optional on this one. Most times I will get a decent shot at a stripe and not have to take BIH but if I dont have a shot on a stripe I will take it. Once all the stripes are off the table I try to run the remaining solids in numerical order. This is actually kind of fun. And it takes longer than just playing the ghost which is nice since I hate racking. This can be a tough drill on a bar box and really helps with 8 ball patterns and breaking up clusters.
Have fun playing the ghost, he is a merciless opponent.
Another thing I like to do since I play in a few 8 ball tournaments is rack up some 8 ball, break and try to run out stripes. I guess I play BIH optional on this one. Most times I will get a decent shot at a stripe and not have to take BIH but if I dont have a shot on a stripe I will take it. Once all the stripes are off the table I try to run the remaining solids in numerical order. This is actually kind of fun. And it takes longer than just playing the ghost which is nice since I hate racking. This can be a tough drill on a bar box and really helps with 8 ball patterns and breaking up clusters.
Have fun playing the ghost, he is a merciless opponent.
Years ago, before I ever heard of playing the ghost, I would start by throwing out 3 balls on the table, starting with BIH. After running 3 balls 10 consecutive times, I would add a ball and run 4 balls 10 consecutive times and add another ball, etc.
If/when I missed I would start over with 3 balls. The best I ever did was missing on the 8th attempt with 6 balls.
Steve
If/when I missed I would start over with 3 balls. The best I ever did was missing on the 8th attempt with 6 balls.
Steve
Years ago, before I ever heard of playing the ghost, I would start by throwing out 3 balls on the table, starting with BIH. After running 3 balls 10 consecutive times, I would add a ball and run 4 balls 10 consecutive times and add another ball, etc.
If/when I missed I would start over with 3 balls. The best I ever did was missing on the 8th attempt with 6 balls.
Steve
Yeah, I did similar to this for years. People also will play the Ghost as a gambling proposition, sometimes doubling the bet after not getting out. Need to be a pretty stout player, though.
I gamble with the ghost all the time. The funny thing is, no matter who wins, the money always seem to find itself into *my* backpocket. I hope the ghost doesn't think I'm stiffing him all the time?
-Sean
Here is an enhancement to playing the Ghost. First,I use the usual method, break and begin with ball in hand. Play ten games and keep track of how many balls you run in each game. Divide the total score by ten and you have your “usual run” with ball in hand. You also have an estimate of how often you can run a rack out of ten racks.
A few other things that have helped me are to keep track of various stats depending on what I am having trouble with. For instance, how many times do I miss long draw shots with side spin? How often do I under / over cut. What is my percentage on thin cuts, etc?
When I keep these stats over a month or so, I know how well I can expect my self to play. If I have ten matches playing against the Ghost I take away the two best and one bottom scores. Calculate the average and I have a pretty good estimate of how well I play. It is humbling but worthwhile.
Later I can use my "usual" scores to evaluate a new tool or technique.
A few other things that have helped me are to keep track of various stats depending on what I am having trouble with. For instance, how many times do I miss long draw shots with side spin? How often do I under / over cut. What is my percentage on thin cuts, etc?
When I keep these stats over a month or so, I know how well I can expect my self to play. If I have ten matches playing against the Ghost I take away the two best and one bottom scores. Calculate the average and I have a pretty good estimate of how well I play. It is humbling but worthwhile.
Later I can use my "usual" scores to evaluate a new tool or technique.
The standard rules were posted by Tate. Though playing the ghost is strictly an offensive game (miss and you lose), there are ways to incorporate safety play when using it for practice. One way is to allow for playing a safety but it is only successful if the ghost has to kick. A successful safety can be considered a draw game. Or you can play for the ghost by giving the kick shot your best effort and proceed from there.
Keep in mind though that around here if you say you beat the 9 Ball Ghost people assume you are referring to the game that Tate described, without benefit of safety play.
Keep in mind though that around here if you say you beat the 9 Ball Ghost people assume you are referring to the game that Tate described, without benefit of safety play.
Joe W said: When I keep these stats over a month or so, I know how well I can expect my self to play. If I have ten matches playing against the Ghost I take away the two best and one bottom scores. Calculate the average and I have a pretty good estimate of how well I play. It is humbling but worthwhile.
Joe- what do you measure your scores against? I saw some charts that graded A-D on this site once upon a time, but I can't find it now. I also keep my score and just want to see if I fall where I think I am.
Bob
Joe- what do you measure your scores against? I saw some charts that graded A-D on this site once upon a time, but I can't find it now. I also keep my score and just want to see if I fall where I think I am.
Bob
I gamble with the ghost all the time. The funny thing is, no matter who wins, the money always seem to find itself into *my* backpocket. I hope the ghost doesn't think I'm stiffing him all the time?
-Sean
Yeah, but I was talking about gambling with other people but you knew that, right:wink:
I use the scores to evaluate my own progress. While is controversial I suspect that the APA handicap reflects the average number of balls a person can be expected to run in an 8-Ball league. It is not accurate but it is one way to begin to evaluate your game. An APA 5 often (if not usually) runs about five balls with an open table. An APA 7 can be expected to get out with ball in hand and an open table. There are all sorts of regional differences and I can only speak to my area in NE Ohio (where I played in a pretty good mature league with a fair minded league operator).
I am sure there are many who will disagree with my opinion but I have found it a useful way to think about my oponent when playing in the leagues.
While pros don't talk about it much I think that with an open table and ball in hand a pro could be expected to run at least three - six racks and probably more. So that is one way to evaluate my ability playing 9-Ball over time.
More importantly, to me, is my own usual score based on 100+ matches playing 9-Ball. I can use this score to evaluate a new tool or technique. Let's say I want to see if a low deflection shaft helps my game. If my new usual score for ten games with a low deflection shaft is 2 - 3 balls better than my old long established usual score, then a low deflection shaft helps my game. BTW this is how I determined to switch to a low deflection shaft and have used one since that study.
Ten games (90 balls max) is not a great statistical test and that is why you need a two or three ball difference over ten games. This only holds if your regular usual score does not vary too much (say two or three balls). I will not get into the why of the statistics and such things as standard error of measurement because most people would not be interested. I taught graduate statistics for many years and lets just say that a 2- 3 ball difference from your regular usual score is a big enough difference that you should consider the phenomena worthy of serious study.
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What I have outlined is a method for real world testing. It is not scientifically acceptable but that is not the point. All we are looking for is a way to measure our own progress and or new tools and techniques.
Note that in my post above I recommended throwing out your top two score and the lowest score before calculating a usual score. There are good reasons for this -- and I will just leave it at that.
For those with some training, I am attentuating to improve reliability which is of much importance in any change score analysis. See Reliability analysis and the use of the Z-Test to come to your own conclusions. My suggestions here are for people who have little math training and less interest in robust testing.
BTW, if you are going to evaluate something like a low deflection shaft you should play with it for a long enough period of time that you feel comfortable with it before conducting a "test" to see if it is worth altering your usual way of playing.
Note that in my post above I recommended throwing out your top two score and the lowest score before calculating a usual score. There are good reasons for this -- and I will just leave it at that.
For those with some training, I am attentuating to improve reliability which is of much importance in any change score analysis. See Reliability analysis and the use of the Z-Test to come to your own conclusions. My suggestions here are for people who have little math training and less interest in robust testing.
BTW, if you are going to evaluate something like a low deflection shaft you should play with it for a long enough period of time that you feel comfortable with it before conducting a "test" to see if it is worth altering your usual way of playing.
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I just want to mention one more time the importance of using the Magic Rack in practice 9 ball and 10 ball. This has been a great experience for me.
When you play the ghost, the rack makes a huge difference. By using the Magic Rack repeatedly, you will learn how a decent rack is supposed to separate, and you will learn the proper speed to use to pocket balls. This is almost always less than 100% effort.
More important than that, you will have a more fair chance at getting through the rack because there will not be the automatic clusters a sloppy rack is guaranteed to provide. Pros can run out those messed up tables because they bank, combo, carom, and position for certain angles very well, but even A players need a pretty open table to get out.
It's not good or fun practice to slug yourself with a bunch of tied up balls. The frustration makes it unpleasant. The difference cannot be discounted. Additionally, by getting a perfect rack 100% of the time, it increases your knowledge of what a perfect rack is supposed to look like, and believe me you will be a lot more skilled and dedicated to hand racking well for yourself and your opponents once you have this experience.
Chris
When you play the ghost, the rack makes a huge difference. By using the Magic Rack repeatedly, you will learn how a decent rack is supposed to separate, and you will learn the proper speed to use to pocket balls. This is almost always less than 100% effort.
More important than that, you will have a more fair chance at getting through the rack because there will not be the automatic clusters a sloppy rack is guaranteed to provide. Pros can run out those messed up tables because they bank, combo, carom, and position for certain angles very well, but even A players need a pretty open table to get out.
It's not good or fun practice to slug yourself with a bunch of tied up balls. The frustration makes it unpleasant. The difference cannot be discounted. Additionally, by getting a perfect rack 100% of the time, it increases your knowledge of what a perfect rack is supposed to look like, and believe me you will be a lot more skilled and dedicated to hand racking well for yourself and your opponents once you have this experience.
Chris
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I sure agree with Chris on this one. Notice how much time the pros spend racking their own in any serious tournament and that emphasizes the need for good racking. I have not owned the rack of which he speaks and often take it on the chin from fellow players who are often saying to let it go. Not important to them but it is to me.
Say if I broke ten racks with ball in hand and ran an average of say.. 6 balls, should i play the ghost with a 7 out? Would that be an effective game? Should I hit until I've ran 7 balls in a row, or up to the 7 ball.
I'm trying to build a solid 1.5-2 hr practice routine. I want to get at least 40 minutes on working on the actual game. I can't run a rack even with ball in hand very consistently, maybe once every couple racks. So if I play the ghost for the run out, I will never win, I don't think that will be rewarding.
Any suggestions for me for a game to play the ghost that would help me improve? Thanks.
I'm trying to build a solid 1.5-2 hr practice routine. I want to get at least 40 minutes on working on the actual game. I can't run a rack even with ball in hand very consistently, maybe once every couple racks. So if I play the ghost for the run out, I will never win, I don't think that will be rewarding.
Any suggestions for me for a game to play the ghost that would help me improve? Thanks.
Well, play the 6 or 7 ball ghost. I would do this by racking 9 Ball so you get practice on the break and after the break take the two highest numbered balls before the 9 ball off the table. Wala, 7 Ball Ghost.
How to play the ghost
Playing the ghost 9 ball with the standard rules is not too much fun imo, unless you are an A player or better.
If you are a novice play the 3 ball ghost , if you beat that consistently go up a ball or 2 till you can't beat it half the time and practice till you can . then add another ball until eventually you can beat the ghost at 10 ball . Then you will be ready to play in big tournaments.
I am looking for a real good 1 Pocket practice if anyone has one they would like to share.
I know Nick Varner had one but I can't remember how you played it.
Just something to use as an improvement gauge. thanks in advance.
Playing the ghost 9 ball with the standard rules is not too much fun imo, unless you are an A player or better.
If you are a novice play the 3 ball ghost , if you beat that consistently go up a ball or 2 till you can't beat it half the time and practice till you can . then add another ball until eventually you can beat the ghost at 10 ball . Then you will be ready to play in big tournaments.
I am looking for a real good 1 Pocket practice if anyone has one they would like to share.
I know Nick Varner had one but I can't remember how you played it.
Just something to use as an improvement gauge. thanks in advance.