How to save professional pool...no, really.

dendweller said:
I believe the PAT in golf is part of becoming a pga pro, not a tour player. For that you go through q school, korn ferry, then the pga tour.

Unfortunately, becoming a pga pro doesn't mean you'll actually play much golf.
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Yes, you are correct, PGA Professionals usually go on to become assistant pros at clubs. All players have to meet other criteria to play on the tour. As a PGA Assistant Professional at a nice mid grade club, you eat a lot of shit and work long hours for little to no money. I would know.

Let's focus on how we might be able to adopt the PGA model and make it work for pool.
 
Boxcar said:
I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. My idea is to form a Professional Pool Players Association. In order to qualify for membership, a candidate must be able to prove a certain level of expertise.
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you were clear,

I was imply denoting what the PPAT (pool players aptitude test) should be.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Ok, I will bite::

To qualify for a professional pool tournament; the entrant must run a 6-pack on a 9 foot table with 4.25" pockets and Simonis 760 cloth.
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Mitch,

I'm sorry but I was just a little slow on the uptake. Did you mean that one of the tests to qualify should be played according to you specifications above? Help me out, I feel like I'm missing something.
 
Woodshaft said:
I feel that Matchroom, CSI, Predator, etc are doing a fine job taking pro pool forward.
That said, Covid really hurt (and is still hurting) the ability for the top Asians to participate in the big International tourneys.
I take fargorate's current lists of the world's "Top Players" with a big grain of salt knowing that they're missing soooo many big name Asian pros--- especially on the women's side.
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True, but all would have their hands full playing Shaw/Shane/Josh/Mika/and the Polish/European heard.
 
Not that the Olympics should be any kind of competitive standard but player certification should be fundamental to "legit" and to legitimize - events. Right now BCA Instructor specs are the only clue pool has any requirements at all.
 
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Um....it's the bracket fillers that keep pro pool going. Derby, the open, Turning Stone and any open event is 85% people who can't make the top 25%. In any tournament, there's only 3 or less that should win.
 
SBC said:
Um....it's the bracket fillers that keep pro pool going. Derby, the open, Turning Stone and any open event is 85% people who can't make the top 25%. In any tournament, there's only 3 or less that should win.
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This.
The main reason ANY decent pool player makes money is because the lesser players pay to play against them.
And I thank them:cool:
 
I think one thing a standardized playing ability test would give us is the ability to say. "Those are the 10 (or 20 or 30 or 90) best pool players in the world, period." The acid test is simple: if a player can't pass the test, he's not as good as the guys who can. It doesn't have any of that "on any given day, stuff." A guy can take the test as many time as he likes, as long as it is observed by an assigned tester and certified. Once a challenge has been laid down, every really competitive player in the world will be wanting a crack at it. Imagine, if you will, what a room full of players who have successfully passed the tests would look like. It would be like Saturday at the Masters. The best players in the world butting heads, making the greatest shots of all time and all in front of a standing room only crowd at Madison Square Garden that got their tickets through Ticketmaster.

I believe that leadership and organization are where this process begins
 
Woodshaft said:
This.
The main reason ANY decent pool player makes money is because the lesser players pay to play against them.
And I thank them:cool:
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Real, recognized, high class sponsors have more money than all of the lesser players combined x 5. All it takes is to make pool look like Sunday at Augusta.
 
It's a chicken and egg thing. The reason you need it in golf is there would be 10,000 entrants at the US Open if it was truly "open". In pool, the fields are rarely full, so there is no need to turn anyone away. If the day came where we had 1000 people with money in their hand to pay to enter the US Open, then there could be a qualifying system.
 
SBC said:
Um....it's the bracket fillers that keep pro pool going. Derby, the open, Turning Stone and any open event is 85% people who can't make the top 25%. In any tournament, there's only 3 or less that should win.
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I agree with your general point, but I do have to quibble with your math...
 
Boxcar said:
OK, now that I read it again, I think I get it. Should there be any other tests besides the 6-pack?
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If you can run a 6-pack, you should be a member of PPAT--as you are already a member of the elite pool players.

That leaves open the question of whether there are other means to become a member.
 
Boxcar said:
Real, recognized, high class sponsors have more money than all of the lesser players combined x 5. All it takes is to make pool look like Sunday at Augusta.
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You apparently haven't been exposed to the thousands upon thousands of dollars that change hands daily at most decent (and many not-so-decent) pool halls and bars.
Trust me when I say that ALL solid players (including pros) have access to play for much more cash than what's paid out in these tourneys lol.
Green room action is alive and well.
 
Vahmurka said:
For the reference, PAT in pool has been around for many years. ...
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Many skill tests have been around for many years, some of them predating PAT.

I think a far more important test for the "pro" players is to see if they know the rules of the game. Require a 70% minimum score and see the fields cut in half. Sadly, I'm not kidding.

As for playing ability, we have the results from tournaments. That's much better than an arbitrary test with unknown conditions. 750 FargoRate or higher and good robustness. That must move up to 765 within a year or the player is dropped for a year. This does not require the development or administration of a test.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Many skill tests have been around for many years, some of them predating PAT.

I think a far more important test for the "pro" players is to see if they know the rules of the game. Require a 70% minimum score and see the fields cut in half. Sadly, I'm not kidding.

As for playing ability, we have the results from tournaments. That's much better than an arbitrary test with unknown conditions. 750 FargoRate or higher and good robustness. That must move up to 765 within a year or the player is dropped for a year. This does not require the development or administration of a test.
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Now if there were only standardized rules.
 
The 2022 Money Leader Board - Pool

56. Pool GER Ralf Souquet $26,069.00

57. Pool GRE Dimitris Loukatos $25,594.00

58. Pool USA Billy Thorpe $24,875.00


The 2022 Money Leader Board - Golf

52.75Billy Horschel3$543,755
53.45Greyson Sigg6$540,595
54.46Byeong Hun An8$512,548

There were 204 PGA Golf Professionals on the 2022 Money Leader Board.
There were approximately 2000 Pool Players on the 2022 Money Leader Board.

The biggest differences between the golf group and the pool group are leadership and organization.
 
Are you trying to save the seedy pro pool scene? Or the family friendly pro pool scenne?

Pay the players to ref after they are knocked out. Forcing them to be refs means they have to stay up to date on rules and policies. They can pay for player and referee certification. Each certification can have different classes, this way they have to pay to change levels.

Collecting test fees is big money.
 
MitchAlsup said:
If you can run a 6-pack, you should be a member of PPAT--as you are already a member of the elite pool players.

That leaves open the question of whether there are other means to become a member.
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I know lucky "non" players that can bang out a stack or two. 9 racks for instance by a friend of mine. I consider actual mastery of fundamentals first and then extensive prep and development from there before you can play pro. Qualifying for the card in the first place should be far more stringent than "Oh, I rob him and him and him..." And qualifying for individual events should be an extensive checklist to even get into the field. And there you have your chicken egg problem again.
Fact is pool is too exclusive for the masses. Contractor licenses are far more stringent but Peepuh needs dem guise and pay the fees. Ad infinitum...
 
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