How to Use the Masse' Shot to Curve Around Obstructing Balls
- Thread starter CJ Wiley
- Start date
I did not mean for CTE. I'm not using CTE. But I think you may have known that.:wink:
I've shot with 'parallel' english since I was 13. So, I'm well familiar with being offset of the line.
Hey, Thanks. This may have just helped me with an aspect of this 'new' cross dominant thing.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
No problem.
Hey, has the "coiling of the shoulder" helped any? Or as it was now phrased in post #94, the "coiling motion"....whatever that is.
You referred to CJ as 'my man' in an earlier post.
CJ Wiley is not ‘my man’ & he is also is not ‘my hero’ as someone also said recently. I don’t idolize anyone.
That said CJ is certainly interesting & he is bringing to the table much that is not normally discussed here & I’m fairly sure that he has more to offer.
Some here nitpick what CJ says instead of looking at the reality of what he is trying to put into a text format. In a video that someone recently posted of Johnny Archer doing a clinic, someone asked a question & Johnny said something like, “Wait... you have to remember, I’m from Georgia.’. The man then said a couple more words & then Johnny knew exactly what he meant.
I & I'm sure others learned the game much the way guys like CJ Wiley, Johnny Archer, & others especially from that era have. I am not a product of some cookie cutter ‘machine’. I think I can speak for many here when I say I want CJ Wiley here & Johnny Archer & other Pros from both the ‘old & ‘new’ eras.
Balance is good. We have the science guys & the professional instructors but how many Professional Players do we have here that do any real posting or take any & 'all' questions?
CJ has faded much here but I think it would wear on even the strongest individual to the point that they would question the worth of being here even to try to give back to the game that they love. CJ seems to be posting less & less & may soon decide to just pack it in. Perhaps he won’t, because he is a strong individual. But if he does, then what Professional Player that does any real posting & takes questions does AZB have? John Brumback & maybe 1 or 2 more. I wonder what CJ would tell another Pro Player if they asked CJ if they should join & post on AZB?
Some seem to want no pro players here… or… they want to change them & not let or have them tell the truth about themselves & what they think & believe. Why? I don’t know.
CJ is the only individual that has convinced me to make a change to my game. I thank him for that & I certainly appreciate it. That would not have happened if he had never come onto AZB & stayed while fading a lot of crap.
The only other individual that has led me to making some adjustments as to how I stroke a particular cue ball for a given purpose is Fran Crimi & she was a Professional Player before becoming a Master Instructor.
Sorry for the rant but CJ is not ‘my man’ nor is he ‘my hero’. He’s just an accomplished Professional in a game that I also play that revealed a technique that I had never used until hearing about it from him.
I hope he stays… but I would certainly not blame him if he chose to not stay.
Sorry for the rant.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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I was talking about the pecs and lats (to simplify) which are near full extension with a high elbow as seen in Karen's pic.
Without an elbow drop, they aren't really agonists in this shot, as there is insignificant contraction leading up to CB impact.
Of course, the delts and even biceps play a role in pulling the humerus down (not technically adduction right?), as they have attachments to the clavicle and humerus, if my memory serves correctly.
In Cory's position, these muscles are less extended and playing a more significant role as agonists.
I recall reading that agonists contract with more force when in a less extended position. A common example is top of squat position and top of bench press position is stronger, though leverage plays a role in this due to skeletal angles.
And yes, I also bumped my head in my teens :wink:
Colin
I don't know if the shoulder 'position' is vital or not to every individual but CJ Wiley is not 'every individual'.
His stroke is also not a 'typical' pendulum stroke. So...I'd guess that it must be a bit important to him or I doubt he would have mentioned it.
He has in the past made statements, I think to garner interest & given time for those interested to think about it before elaborating (or not) given the level of interest.
All said, I could be wrong.
Best 2 All,
Rick
His stroke is also not a 'typical' pendulum stroke. So...I'd guess that it must be a bit important to him or I doubt he would have mentioned it.
He has in the past made statements, I think to garner interest & given time for those interested to think about it before elaborating (or not) given the level of interest.
All said, I could be wrong.
Best 2 All,
Rick
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Duke,
Seems you've judged before anything has really been said. That's fine.
I'll wait & see.
The 'I could be wrong' thing is just a way of saying that it is my opinion & not necessarily factual but that it might be so. What does it matter that I said it in a much earlier post.
Best 2 you & All,
Rick
Hi Duke,
Seems you've judged before anything has really been said. That's fine.
I'll wait & see.
The 'I could be wrong' thing is just a way of saying that it is my opinion & not necessarily factual but that it might be so. What does it matter that I said it in a much earlier post.
Best 2 you & All,
Rick
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I would not call what myself, and many others do to CJ, "attacking"!..What it is, is calling attention to the hundreds of posts he offers up, on almost ANY subject that strikes his fancy..He can make perfect sense one minute, and the next go off on a page long rant, in which NO ONE has a clue what he is talking about !
A perfect example of this, is his "The Game is the Teacher" mantra !..This makes absolutely no sense whatsover !...A "game" cannot teach anything...A game is to be 'studied' and 'learned', period !..It is no small wonder, that he has to spend half his time defending himself, and the other half explaining what the hell he is talking about !
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How can a game like pool really teach us anything?
I've always thought of pool as a way to express myself. Some people play music, write poems, draw/take pictures, create business plans, teach, martial arts, govern, sing, dance, etc. - I use pool to satisfy this "artistic desire".
Pool, to me, is also a microcosm of life in general with scenarios like "risk/reward", "win/win", "win/lose", "goal setting", "human nature tests", "structured rules", "honesty/dishonesty", "systems & controls", "capitalism", "money management", "socialism", "democracy", "social skills", compassion, understanding, problem solving, meditation, hand/eye coordination, calibrating people, gambling, drug/alcohol reality, reading road maps, etc.
I've learned a lot about life, people, human tendencies, and especially myself playing and competing at pocket billiards (and other games/sports). I'm told humans can learn life just living "life on life's terms," and I'm not sure it could be as well rounded and diversified as matching up and competing. If you can survive in the greatest pool rooms you certainly have a head start on those that just learned in class room environments.
I'm not sure if I love pool, have a passion for it, or was just destined and born to play. Can any of us honestly answer that question? One thing's for sure, we've had "life experiences" that we could get no other way. 'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley
I've always thought of pool as a way to express myself. Some people play music, write poems, draw/take pictures, create business plans, teach, martial arts, govern, sing, dance, etc. - I use pool to satisfy this "artistic desire".
Pool, to me, is also a microcosm of life in general with scenarios like "risk/reward", "win/win", "win/lose", "goal setting", "human nature tests", "structured rules", "honesty/dishonesty", "systems & controls", "capitalism", "money management", "socialism", "democracy", "social skills", compassion, understanding, problem solving, meditation, hand/eye coordination, calibrating people, gambling, drug/alcohol reality, reading road maps, etc.
I've learned a lot about life, people, human tendencies, and especially myself playing and competing at pocket billiards (and other games/sports). I'm told humans can learn life just living "life on life's terms," and I'm not sure it could be as well rounded and diversified as matching up and competing. If you can survive in the greatest pool rooms you certainly have a head start on those that just learned in class room environments.
I'm not sure if I love pool, have a passion for it, or was just destined and born to play. Can any of us honestly answer that question? One thing's for sure, we've had "life experiences" that we could get no other way. 'The Game is the Teacher' CJ Wiley
We are standing on each other's shoulders to pass on our game to a new generation
I've been very clear that I'm only passing on wisdom that I learned from many great players.....some were great tournament players, others were "road players," that gambled for a living and had to win to survive.
These players and their understanding of the game has dissipated though the years for one reason or another, and the code to secrecy we've had are no longer necessary......the gambling/hustling days are gone......and will never return again.
We are standing on each other's shoulders to pass on our game to a new generation - this is both an obligation and a responsibility for some of us. It's also human nature for a few to become obsessed about stopping it....this is not unusual.
I'm getting prepared to {reluctantly} disclose some knowledge that will help my "critics" improve their sense of well being, confidence and consideration for others.....and, as you may suspect, I've saved the best for last.
'The Game is the Teacher'
I've been very clear that I'm only passing on wisdom that I learned from many great players.....some were great tournament players, others were "road players," that gambled for a living and had to win to survive.
These players and their understanding of the game has dissipated though the years for one reason or another, and the code to secrecy we've had are no longer necessary......the gambling/hustling days are gone......and will never return again.
We are standing on each other's shoulders to pass on our game to a new generation - this is both an obligation and a responsibility for some of us. It's also human nature for a few to become obsessed about stopping it....this is not unusual.
I'm getting prepared to {reluctantly} disclose some knowledge that will help my "critics" improve their sense of well being, confidence and consideration for others.....and, as you may suspect, I've saved the best for last.
'The Game is the Teacher'
The fish are definitely being fed these days. There's still some magical stuff out there to be had, but it'll have to pass a rigid AZB inspection before it can be classified as non-mythical/mystical.
Let me guess...free special kool-aid? :wink:
You've given more knowledge to these forums from your experiences than just about anyone, save a handful of people.
I've been working, the last couple of days, on keeping my shoulder in a relaxed/ready position. I've concentrated on several different positions, trying to see which ones work the best for different applications. One for power strokes, one for 90% of the other shots, and even one for breaking. This focus helps my elbow stay in line with the shot.
By concentrating on the feeling I have in my shoulder, I'm in tune with subtle changes and movements off of the shot line. I can't see my elbow and upper arm when I stroke, but I can feel when they stray off line. Like you said, it's like turning off the lights and heightening my other senses. I was surprised I could tune in like that after a short time frame and feel an error or incorrect alignment. "I see", said the blind man.
Best,
Mike
???? What best ??? What last ???
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5114135&postcount=113
PS..CJ..For some reason, I am reminded of Grey Ghosts signature line, which brings into question, your "originality"......Here is his sig line, ver batim....
GreyGhost said:
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From the jist of it, what is trying to be implied is that yon can store energy in a muscle based on position. Like compressing a spring and then letting it go.
Can't be done with the human body.
Using the coin toss concept, one thing to remember is that there is another finger restricting movement of the thumb. but is not preventing the thumb from moving in other ways.
To do this with a pool stroke would require somehow restricting the cue from moving then removing that restriction. The bridge is the only place to to do this.
Muscles are not springs. They do not, can not act like springs. You can not coil a muscle, there is no coil motion or movement. It is muscles working in groups expanding and contracting at the proper times and sequence that is making the power of the stroke......not putting your arm/shoulder in a certain position thinking this is where the power comes from.
You may use this terminology to get a point across, but it is a piss poor way of doing it.
There is wisdom, and there is bullshit. Being from Texas myself, I can spot a true bullshitter.......
Can't be done with the human body.
Using the coin toss concept, one thing to remember is that there is another finger restricting movement of the thumb. but is not preventing the thumb from moving in other ways.
To do this with a pool stroke would require somehow restricting the cue from moving then removing that restriction. The bridge is the only place to to do this.
Muscles are not springs. They do not, can not act like springs. You can not coil a muscle, there is no coil motion or movement. It is muscles working in groups expanding and contracting at the proper times and sequence that is making the power of the stroke......not putting your arm/shoulder in a certain position thinking this is where the power comes from.
You may use this terminology to get a point across, but it is a piss poor way of doing it.
There is wisdom, and there is bullshit. Being from Texas myself, I can spot a true bullshitter.......
I've been very clear that I'm only passing on wisdom that I learned from many great players.....some were great tournament players, others were "road players," that gambled for a living and had to win to survive.
These players and their understanding of the game has dissipated though the years for one reason or another, and the code to secrecy we've had are no longer necessary......the gambling/hustling days are gone......and will never return again.
We are standing on each other's shoulders to pass on our game to a new generation - this is both an obligation and a responsibility for some of us. It's also human nature for a few to become obsessed about stopping it....this is not unusual.
I'm getting prepared to {reluctantly} disclose some knowledge that will help my "critics" improve their sense of well being, confidence and consideration for others.....and, as you may suspect, I've saved the best for last.
'The Game is the Teacher'
The fish are definitely being fed these days. There's still some magical stuff out there to be had, but it'll have to pass a rigid AZB inspection before it can be classified as non-mythical/mystical.
Let me guess...free special kool-aid? :wink:
You've given more knowledge to these forums from your experiences than just about anyone, save a handful of people.
I've been working, the last couple of days, on keeping my shoulder in a relaxed/ready position. I've concentrated on several different positions, trying to see which ones work the best for different applications. One for power strokes, one for 90% of the other shots, and even one for breaking. This focus helps my elbow stay in line with the shot.
By concentrating on the feeling I have in my shoulder, I'm in tune with subtle changes and movements off of the shot line. I can't see my elbow and upper arm when I stroke, but I can feel when they stray off line. Like you said, it's like turning off the lights and heightening my other senses. I was surprised I could tune in like that after a short time frame and feel an error or incorrect alignment. "I see", said the blind man.
Best,
Mike
Hi CJ & Mike,
I've never consciously on purpose repositioned my shoulder but I have felt it move prior to delivery on the break & I have rather often noticeably felt like I'm shooting from the shoulder.
I know that my right shoulder blade area is almost always a bit tight even sometimes to the point of a cramp when I throw it over the car seat to back up my car.
I would not think of myself as a 'fish', Mike, but I certainly do not possess conceit so as to ignore & turn down the advice of bigger 'sharks' than myself, like CJ...& You.
I'm certainly willing to listen to anything that you bring to the table, CJ, as I think most anyone else should be willing to do as well.
Best 2 You Both & All,
Rick
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