how would ya hit it?

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
LOL, I don't know if I've ever made it 4 times period.
You're not alone,,,, players I know have never made it.
He cuts the paint off balls with extreme spin as well as anybody I've ever seen, a fantastic 3-c player.
This is another shot we would bet on, cue ball behind the red. I Don't know why we love torture.

Back Cut.png
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
caught this in a book recently..curious if there's any debate
It depends. Sometimes just high dead edge to edge at a faster clip. Sometimes with inside, rail first. Sometimes loaded up with outside and playing to deflect the CB a bit. I used to use inside about all the time on this shot, now with an LD cue I like outside and a good but soft stroke. I personally find it much easier to play around with throw with LD, though it's not the arrow.
 

Chili Palmer

Give or take an 1"
Silver Member
You're not alone,,,, players I know have never made it.
He cuts the paint off balls with extreme spin as well as anybody I've ever seen, a fantastic 3-c player.
This is another shot we would bet on, cue ball behind the red. I Don't know why we love torture.

View attachment 638667

That's similar to Bob's 100 degree shot. And tough as nails :) Don't know if I've ever tried it, let alone made it.
 

middleofnowhere

Registered
We use to play the same shot.. Brunswick to brunswick, dead straight cue ball on top of the back rail, $10..00 a man.
We would draw pills to pick turns.
We would have 10 guys or more in. If we went through the rotation you threw another $10.00 in, repeatedly.
My buddy made it 4 times in a row.

The same guy made 7 balls on the break. He left the 7 and 9 ball both hanging in the side pockets. He was an inch away from breaking all 9 balls in.
I was playing him.
Ball on top of the rail is a hustle. It is easier then it looks. Much easier the the cue all frozen to the end rail. I'll tell a funny story later of the whole pool room beating a road hustler out of a bunch of money on that shot. The hustler got hustled and left never knowing what happened to him.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You're not alone,,,, players I know have never made it.
He cuts the paint off balls with extreme spin as well as anybody I've ever seen, a fantastic 3-c player.
This is another shot we would bet on, cue ball behind the red. I Don't know why we love torture.

View attachment 638667
This goes better with a house cue. Aim 4/5 or more ball. Maximum juice and speed. If you go too wide back off on the speed. To me, it's way out of spec with an LD shaft. Dr. Dave and Hatrick Johnson say I confuse swerve with deflection but mainly, it's closer to a masse with an LD shaft.
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Ball on top of the rail is a hustle. It is easier then it looks. Much easier the the cue all frozen to the end rail. I'll tell a funny story later of the whole pool room beating a road hustler out of a bunch of money on that shot. The hustler got hustled and left never knewing what happened to him.
I don't know this hustle but I would like to. I watched a champion make 2 out of 25.
I can make the shot, not near enough consistency to try a hustle, which I wouldn't do anyway.
My signature,,,You don't know, what you don't know, until you know it. I don't know it...lol




Off the rail.png
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't know this hustle but I would like to. I watched a champion make 2 out of 25. ...
He must have been stalling if he was a champion. Mizerak used to bet on three tries, so I'm told. I think even I could get 2 out of 25.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
How do you figure? Inside english is going to throw th CB away from the object ball.

Oh wait, I see, had to go back and look at the upside down pic lol, that has to be a misprint because 'right' wouldn't work at all regardless. Even throw wouldn't throw with that thin a cut even if you compensated for deflection into the OB. Ima go try and see lol.
Not sure what you meant about an upside down picture because the picture is right side up in post #1 where it was shown.

In post #31 it states that the book says to use right english for the shot, and of course right english is outside english here, so the book is saying to use outside english.

And of course we know that outside english will always squirt the cue ball more towards (not away from) the object ball if no aiming adjustment is made. We also know here that swerve is not going to be a factor that counteracts all or even some of the squirt because the shot distance is too short and the shot has to be hit too firmly. That being the case, squirt is the only force that will be able to have influence between the two in this particular case and the squirt from the right/outside english here is definitely going to be sending the cue ball to the left more towards a thicker hit on the object ball unless you compensate your aim.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
If the butt is jacked up, the curve can happen in a short distance.
Of course swerve can happen in a short distance under certain circumstances, never said it couldn't, but as I said not on this particular shot (jacked up or not) because of the short distance combined with the shot speed which it would have to be shot at in order to give the object ball a chance to go and between the two things together it just wouldn't allow enough time for swerve to become a real factor in the shot as diagrammed.
 

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
Of course swerve can happen in a short distance, but as I said not on this particular shot (jacked up or not) because of the short distance combined with the shot speed which it would have to be shot at in order to give the object ball a chance to go and between the two things together it just wouldn't allow enough time for swerve to become a real factor.

I've seen such shots made. It's just a bit more masse' than usual, that's all. The spin provides the speed at the ball hit.


Jeff Livingston
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
I've seen such shots made. It's just a bit more masse' than usual, that's all. The spin provides the speed at the ball hit.
You would never be hitting the shot like that, but that aside I just don't think there is enough time for swerve to become much of a factor on this shot. I know what you are talking about and you don't have to hit it real hard because the spin is doing a lot of the work, but in order to be able to pocket the object ball it does require that you can't be hitting it so soft that you will be getting any kind of significant swerve in less than a diamond of travel. There just isn't enough time in that short of distance at the required shot speed for swerve to really be much factor here. Try it, you'll see.
 
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RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
Not sure what you meant about an upside down picture because the picture is right side up in post #1 where it was shown.

In post #31 it states that the book says to use right english for the shot, and of course right english is outside english here, so the book is saying to use outside english.

And of course we know that outside english will always squirt the cue ball more towards (not away from) the object ball if no aiming adjustment is made. We also know here that swerve is not going to be a factor that counteracts all or even some of the squirt because the shot distance is too short and the shot has to be hit too firmly. That being the case, squirt is the only force that will be able to have influence between the two in this particular case and the squirt from the right/outside english here is definitely going to be sending the cue ball to the left more towards a thicker hit on the object ball unless you compensate your aim.
Doesn't matter, I mis-read it, no need to keep on about it. My initial post stands. Obviously it can't be shot as stated. Assuming a misprint or other.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
appreciate all the responses
I agree with those who'd hit the cb with inside, rail first- that's how *I'd* hit it

interestingly, the book ("international tournament pool") says different:
"you must aim to barely graze the object ball while giving the cue ball right hand english so that the object ball is thrown to the left into the pocket"
The book clearly is wrong. Here is the whole diagram, which they seem to have "borrowed" from the Knuchell book I mentioned above. Or maybe it was the other way around as they were published about the same time. They give the same wrong advice that Knuchell did for Shot 1, but they get Shot 2 completely wrong.

20220423_092116.jpg
 

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
I never trusted any pool book for accuracy until Bob Byrne wrote his classic, The Standard book.


Jeff Livingston
 

RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
The book clearly is wrong. Here is the whole diagram, which they seem to have "borrowed" from the Knuchell book I mentioned above. Or maybe it was the other way around as they were published about the same time. They give the same wrong advice that Knuchell did for Shot 1, but they get Shot 2 completely wrong.

View attachment 638904


The detective. :)
 

Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know this hustle but I would like to. I watched a champion make 2 out of 25.
I can make the shot, not near enough consistency to try a hustle, which I wouldn't do anyway.
My signature,,,You don't know, what you don't know, until you know it. I don't know it...lol




View attachment 638736
Theoretically this can be made with low outside English. Theoretically only due to my skill level. Who knows the trick???
 
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