How Would You Play This? 12/20/08

Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay, as a follow-up to yesterday's shot, THIS shot came up in MY 9-ball match. On the prior shot, I played safe, hoping to leave the 5-ball in position for a follow-up safety since I wanted nothing to do with the 7/8. However, the table had a slight lean near the side-pocket and it ended up hanging right on the lip. I have ball-in-hand and the 5-ball is definitely going to drop on any legal hit.

I had won the first few games of a league match against a player I'm giving up a lot of weight to (7 games on 11) and although she's struggled with routine situations, she had proven earlier in the set that she could come up with some monster shots. The score was 7-3, obviously her lead.

I ended up winning the game but not because of my decision here. Looking back, I'd probably play it differently than I did but was curious to see what you guys thought:

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...was curious to see what you guys thought:
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Play for the 3 rail safe on the 7.

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I think that would do it.

[edit] I just did this on my table. It's pretty easy if you hit the 5 right to give you the natural angle from the 6 onto the line for the 3 rail safe. The cue ball almost froze to the 8 when I shot it. It's a dead nuts safe. Not the whip!!

-td
 
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I would leave angle from the 5 to the 6 so that I could attempt a break out on the 7/8. If I don't get the break out, then I would play a safe.

There's always a chance of hooking myself, but I like my chances tyring to get out.

Russ..
 
Video Link Below

td873 said:
Play for the 3 rail safe on the 7.
[...]

[edit] I just did this on my table. It's pretty easy if you hit the 5 right to give you the natural angle from the 6 onto the line for the 3 rail safe. The cue ball almost froze to the 8 when I shot it. It's a dead nuts safe. Not the whip!!

-td
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This type of 3 rail safety comes up a lot in 9 ball. It's really easy to execute. The reason it's so easy is that it's a deadball safe, so all you have to do is control the speed of one ball.

After I posted, I went ahead and shot it again with the camera rolling. I got another decent safe. And if you can get on the back side of the 8, it's even better.

Just play the 7 with stop and watch the speed. Pretty easy to execute really. You just have to plan ahead when you recognize it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0JdlPbDCsk

[edit]
I would leave angle from the 5 to the 6 so that I could attempt a break out on the 7/8.
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Giving 7 games in a race to 11 (and with only 4 ball on the table), there is no way I'm going to shoot a low percentage breakout shot, when the safety is a gimme. Not to mention the fact that the 9 is in the way for the natural 1 rail angle AND the side pocket is in the way for the 3 railer into the 7 or the 8 (or the 4 railer behind the 7).

-td [can we embed youtube yet???]
 
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If you absolutely WANT to get out....

Place the CB at an angle where just the thinnest hit will be made on the 5, with a smooooooth draw stroke.

The 5 will trickle in, and the CB will draw back off the 8 for position on the 6. Don't hit this too hard, lest the CB stun off the side of the 8.

I would play the three rail safe on the 7 myself, but I thought I'd include this for the entertainment factor, for if it lay just a little better, this might be a viable shot.

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Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
If you absolutely WANT to get out....

Place the CB at an angle where just the thinnest hit will be made on the 5, with a smooooooth draw stroke.

The 5 will trickle in, and the CB will draw back off the 8 for position on the 6. Don't hit this too hard, lest the CB stun off the side of the 8.

I would play the three rail safe on the 7 myself, but I thought I'd include this for the entertainment factor, for if it lay just a little better, this might be a viable shot.

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Russ
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Great shot, Russ. That's the way I would try to play this one.

(And Efren would probably do the same...seems like the most intelligent shot to me.)

Michael
 
the420trooper said:
Great shot, Russ. That's the way I would try to play this one.

(And Efren would probably do the same...seems like the most intelligent shot to me.)

Michael
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Yeah, but EFREN would use bottom left (allowing for deflection so he doesn't miss the 5 altogether) and aim to hit the 8 ball on the left side so he spins off the rail and gets closer to the 6!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Russ
 
At first I couldn't really figure out what to do until I saw Thomas' post... I have to say 3 railing the 7 to go behind the 8 is a great safety (just make sure you will have enough room to do that after pocketing the 6). I remember watching Ko taking the World Junior with a very similar shot: http://talk.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=3071
 
I like both the offensive shot (thin hit on the 5 and draw off the 8 for position on the 6) and the defensive shot (play to 3 rail the 7 ball and stick on the 8) from this position. I prefer the offensive shot and as long as I don't hook myself here I can always play a safe later. Having to play position on the 7 and then safe can be risky. I actually played my match on the same table Jude did and had a little bit of a tough time with it. Really fast rails, really slow cloth.
 
junior718, this is what you posted in post #11. After you click "Post Reply", you have to click the WEI button and insert the tag into it.

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Here's another option not discussed. May not be the 1st choice, but something to think about if you want to run them out. I like playing a little safer giving all the weight, but it's my 1st attempt using the WEI table.

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I don't know where the 3rd table came from, but you get the idea.

Jude, I was in NY the 1st week of December and stopped by Amsterdam Billiards. I asked for you but it was during a weekday and the person at the desk said you had a real job and only come in at night or weekends. Sorry I couldn't say hi. I did meet RonV however.

Dave
 
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td873 said:
I would only shoot this if I was REALLLYYY mad at my wallet.

-td
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What better time is there to play thisthen when you spotting someone 7 on 11. It really isnt that hard a shot if you got some 3-cushion knowledge. I have used it before.
 
TX Poolnut said:
junior718, this is what you posted in post #11. After you click "Post Reply", you have to click the WEI button and insert the tag into it.

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What about lining up just how it is up above but hitting it harder with a little outside but make sure you contact the 8 thin. After cueball hits the 8 it goes 2 rails out of the corner to the center of the table. Even if you dont get perfect on the 6 their is no chance of getting hooked on it.

Doesn't look that hard.
 
junior718 said:
What better time is there to play thisthen when you spotting someone 7 on 11.
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IMO, when your opponent is 7 games "worse" than you, you play tight, not loose until you get (around) even. The handicap means they don't have a whole skill set. And what skills are usually less developed? Safety, kicks, and stroke shots. A 3 ball gimme is something they can shoot though. Breaking out balls too early isn't always the best solution.

And, IMO, the carom ticky for 2 rail shape should be a last resort when there are no other options. But here, there are plenty of better choices. Playing great pool is about picking the highest percentage shots within your skill set. Maybe you are just really good at multiple rail carom ticky shots, thus justifying shooting this. I would guess most people would pass on this type of shot. But what do I know.

Besides, it's just my opinion on the matter - shoot it how you want. It's not my money.

It really isnt that hard a shot if you got some 3-cushion knowledge.
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Hmmm. Seems like you should have corrected the shot then. You need inside on this one, not outside... [edit 2: looking back at this, outside and inside are actually relative to a particular ball. It would be outside english for the 1 ball, inside for the 8 ball. So saying shooting with outside is correct, assuming you are talking about the 1 ball. Sorry for the confusion.]

[EDIT: I just went and shot this a couple dozen times on my table. It is NOT a good shot, nor is it easy. IMO, the 8 is too close to the rail for the ticky to work right. Well, at least for me...]

-td
 
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If I was playing a weaker player and thought I could afford to gamble I would go for a breakout and try to get lucky and find my way out. Very risky and in this situation, not very easy.

If I was playing a tough opponent, I would elect to play safe and try to get them on two fouls since I already have BIH. This is definitely the higher percentage...


Here is a video f how I did it. One breakout which you can see could go either way and 2 safes which were pretty easy to lock up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es34d3_OYsw
 
I would probably have tried to thin the 5 and make the cueball hit the 8, and then draw back for the 6, but that option is already suggested.

Here's another one to consider. If you fail to get the position on the 6 for the 2-rail breakup, you can always recover by playing position on the 7 to do the 3-rail-safety that is posted above.

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I agree with Russ Cherning on how to shoot it as option A. Option B would be to push the nine across table off of the five with the nine out of the way and an open table at the end where the six is it would be easy enough to get shape from the 6 to the 7. In this case I don't think playing safe is good because even with ball in hand on the six shape on the seven is tough because the 9 is in the way and a breakout off of the 6 is to unpredictable. So I say option A use the 5 to break the 7,8 up and put enough draw on the cue to skid it past the nine just in case you don't hit 7 full enough for the cue ball to follow the path in the diagram.
 
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