How would you play this?

Duffman

Duffman

Barboxer for life.
Silver Member
After posting two of these, I came to the conclusion that you guys really know what you are talking about. :)

So I decided to get myself into another pickle (as I have a habbit of doing).

I am solids, my opponent just laid a nasty safe on me. The four is frozen to the 5, and the five is frozen to the rail. Cueball is about a chalks distance from both stripes.

Unlike the last one of these I posted, I did not get lucky and win the game, I got unlucky (read: made a poor decision) and lost the game.

What would you do???

CueTable Help

 
Are you in the pickle industry Duffman? ;)

I'm not a big 8 ball player and I'm sure the more experienced will come up with something wiser... But I think I'd knock his 10 ball to the foot end of the table and let him have BIH. I'd not move any other balls. Separating his 10 from his 15 will make it tougher for him.

Secondly, if you keep getting into these pickles, I think I'd recommend hop scotch. Or just scotch. ;)
 
Use the 3rail kicking system to slowly go uptable and back down underneath your stack and lag into the 4 ball or try to, so that if you hit it you can safe them back. system is very accurate i might add on good equipment.

If you hit it and give up ball in hand after hitting your ball, you still might tie it up even worse.

Tough situation.
 
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The only other thing i can think of might be to 3 rail the 10 up table to the middle diamond and give up ball in hand.
To shoot the 15 up table, bump the 8 out so that you have a shot on it while playing position for a ball in the middle of the top rail is not the easiest task.

But then they might just play safe all night long.
 
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SUPERSTAR said:
Use the 3rail kicking system to slowly go uptable and back down underneath your stack and lag into the 4 ball or try to, so that if you hit it you can safe them back. ystem is very accurate i might add on good equipment.

If you hit it and give up ball in hand after hitting your ball, you still might tie it up even worse.

Tough situation.
Click to expand...


DITTO: SPF=randyg
 
Duffman said:
After posting two of these, I came to the conclusion that you guys really know what you are talking about. :)

So I decided to get myself into another pickle (as I have a habbit of doing).

I am solids, my opponent just laid a nasty safe on me. The four is frozen to the 5, and the five is frozen to the rail. Cueball is about a chalks distance from both stripes.

Unlike the last one of these I posted, I did not get lucky and win the game, I got unlucky (read: made a poor decision) and lost the game.

What would you do???

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

This is what I would have done:

CueTable Help

 
KoolKat9Lives said:
I'm going to set this shot up today and see how difficult that 3 railer is and how close I get on the first 2-3 shots. Looks like the 1st rail contact point needs to be very close to the corner pocket, else you'll come up short on the angle.
Click to expand...

If you know the system, it's not about easy or hard, it's all math.
Play it by the numbers and you will find that on good equipment, it's rather easy.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
If you know the system, it's not about easy or hard, it's all math.
Play it by the numbers and you will find that on good equipment, it's rather easy.
Click to expand...

Yes, the three railer is in order here. Not that difficult and even if you don't get a rail percentages say it's the right shot.

Giving up an intentional ball in hand will leave your opponent with too many options to better himself. Even by relocating the ten ball up table you should lose.
 
KoolKat9Lives said:
Looks like the 1st rail contact point needs to be very close to the corner pocket, else you'll come up short on the angle.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like there's much to lose. I don't see a good deliberate foul option either. At least not right away. Maybe a little right english on the kick?

The only other quasi option I could see might be to lightly hop it over the edge of the 15 and try to leave the cue ball near the other side of the headstring and hopefully not disturb your opponents balls too much, but that looks like a big roll of the dice too. ( Edit- I re-read the part that said the stripes were a chalk apart, so this won't work)
 
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Being that the balls (4 &5) are frozen giving up BIH is almost a certain unless you kick it firm. Then you are relying on luck to leave the balls difficult.
I would either push the 15 closer to the 5 (easy shot) or bank the 10 2rails to the center of the table or the long rail (harder shot). I would go to the long rail if the 2 rail in the side wasn't on.
 
stumpie71 said:
Being that the balls (4 &5) are frozen giving up BIH is almost a certain unless you kick it firm. Then you are relying on luck to leave the balls difficult.
I would either push the 15 closer to the 5 (easy shot) or bank the 10 2rails to the center of the table or the long rail (harder shot). I would go to the long rail if the 2 rail in the side wasn't on.
Click to expand...

Yes, IMO pushing the 15 on the 5 is the shot I would advise. If the player doesn't have any experience with this kick, they may end up just giving up BIH anyway. Locking up the 5, and 15 hurts you, but they have earn it from there, and it buys you some time. It may also be possible to free the 4 ball up enough to give yourself a breakout shot. That would add a little pressure to your opponent. You also have to take into account the skill level of both players. It sure can make a difference. Tough spot! :frown:
 
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KoolKat9Lives:
I'm going to set this shot up today and see how difficult that 3 railer is and how close I get on the first 2-3 shots. Looks like the 1st rail contact point needs to be very close to the corner pocket, else you'll come up short on the angle.
Click to expand...
SUPERSTAR:
If you know the system, it's not about easy or hard, it's all math.
Play it by the numbers and you will find that on good equipment, it's rather easy.
Click to expand...

I don't think hitting close to the corner pocket will make this kick - I think you have to add a little right sidespin to close the angle. But not much is needed, and it's pretty easy to add too much - practice will give a feel for it.

With no sidespin I don't think the CB's going-in and coming-out paths can be parallel as needed to make the kick; I think the angle must open up like this:

CueTable Help



With way too much sidespin you can actually make the CB cross its own path, like this:

CueTable Help



pj
chgo
 
I make the 10.

Sure it gives him BIH, but he still has to make the 15 and get shape on 8.

I prefer to make HIM win, verses me losing.

If anyone wants to bet the cheese on a 3 rail kick, they have action.

I advise everyone to KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
I make the 10.

Sure it gives him BIH, but he still has to make the 15 and get shape on 8.

I prefer to make HIM win, verses me losing.

If anyone wants to bet the cheese on a 3 rail kick, they have action.

I advise everyone to KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

Ken
Click to expand...

Are you out of your mind?
So knocking the 10 uptable so that he HAS to at least make 2 balls starting with the 15, is EASIER then taking one of those balls away so that he can basically play a stop shot and shoot the 8 in the side?

WOW!
No, let me state that again.

WOW!

Obviously, you don't know the system and have never seen it actually executed in pool or billiards. So to you, it's taking a flyer.
If you did know it or practice it, you'd be kicking at it cause that making the 10 ball and making it easier for him will get you BROKE!
 
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SUPERSTAR:
Obviously, you don't know the system and have never seen it actually executed in pool or billiards. So to you, it's taking a flyer.
Click to expand...

Even if you hit the kick it's taking a flyer - getting a rail after contact isn't a given unless you hit hard enough to leave an unpredictable layout, and giving up ball in hand under more controlled circumstances isn't a ridiculous idea.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Even if you hit the kick it's taking a flyer - getting a rail after contact isn't a given unless you hit hard enough to leave an unpredictable layout, and giving up ball in hand under more controlled circumstances isn't a ridiculous idea.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Um, ok, i am assuming that people involved can play, and giving up BIH = a loss.

So, lets assume that the kick is far fetched for arguments sake.
REGARDLESS, moving the 10 is a WAY better idea then making the 10 and giving up BIH.

I mean, that might work with some scrub, and you laugh as they miss the long down the rail shot, but i know plenty of guys that are just going to rifle it in even if they are slightly jacked up over the 5 and spear the 8 in the side.

Making the 10 is NOT an option.

I don't see what the difference is, if you miss the kick, they still have to make 3 balls with position, vs making the 10 ball and taking a ball out of the equation and making life easier for them.
 
for one, I'd love the be the guy with stripes in this situation! :rolleyes:

since that wasn't what was asked...3 rail try all the way.
 
i agree with the kick shot, it is not difficult nor do you have to shoot the CB so close to the pocket on the first rail, that shot is actually a nice one pocket move, and have done it 4 rails to play safe from L,S,L,L to come to rest on the short rail b/t their balls and their pocket.

Making the 10 and then giving any descent player BIH is retarted. You shoot the other ball down table and stop the CB for the 8 in the side or the other corner....your basically dead.


I take either the kick shot, or I shoot the 10 two rails and leave it on the long rail same as the 15 if you land it on the rail he's screwed and even if you don't he's still got an issue with his 8 being trapped by the 4/5


Like I said tho I would rather the kick, for me its the highest % to win shot, as I'm likely to catch the hook and if I do hit it bad I still shouldn't sell out the game.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Are you out of your mind?
So knocking the 10 uptable so that he HAS to at least make 2 balls starting with the 15, is EASIER then taking one of those balls away so that he can basically play a stop shot and shoot the 8 in the side?

WOW!
No, let me state that again.

WOW!

Obviously, you don't know the system and have never seen it actually executed in pool or billiards. So to you, it's taking a flyer.
If you did know it or practice it, you'd be kicking at it cause that making the 10 ball and making it easier for him will get you BROKE!
Click to expand...

My point is on a 3 rail kick there are alot of variables and possible scratch.

Pushing the 10 up to me doesnt help either. I prefer giving them less options not more. If I have stripes and have ball in hand I cant make or dink the 10 all night letting you break up those balls


ken
 
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