Hypothetical Matchup: Kirkwood vs. Bowman....Who You Got?

BasementDweller

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When it comes to bar table pool you hear these two names an awful lot. I've seen Jason Kirkwood up close and personal quite a few times over the years but I've only ever seen Jesse Bowman play on streams or posted videos. So my picture of his game is not complete.

Based on my incomplete knowledge I still think one of them would be the clear favorite but could be wrong -- who knows?

Who would you like in this matchup?

Just having a little fun here.
 
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Tin Man

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bowman

Tough match up for sure. If they were playing 9 ball or 8 ball on a valley I'd take Bowman. I've seen enough. The man is a wizard. Many people can play near perfect, but he has some leprechaun stuff going on. He doesn't seem to pick racks apart or try to navigate through challenges, he just flows over the adversity like a surfer on a wave. I've seen a lot of pool and have never seen anything quite like it.

I think 10 ball on a diamond might be a different game. The more technical it gets the closer it gets I think. Kirkwood is nearly unbeatable. I remember I had a piece of him in the calcutta in Olathe a few years back. Kirkwood was the first wild card. He asked for half of himself and asked what he sold for. It was $600. He then asked if he could buy all of himself for $700. How strong is that? PS- he won the tournament ;)
 

BasementDweller

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Thanks for chiming in Tin Man. It sounds like you've seen them both up close and would slightly favor Bowman. Now, as I previously mentioned -- I've only ever watched Bowman on streams but I've noticed he plays real fast and loose and it's not necessarily always the good type of fast and loose. Because of this, I saw quite a few unforced errors in his game (relatively speaking for a player of his caliber). I don't see this in Kirkwood's game. For the most part, he doesn't take shots off. So I would favor Kirkwood over Bowman. I would really enjoy watching them play though.
 

Black-Balled

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in the calcutta in Olathe a few years back. Kirkwood was the first wild card. He asked for half of himself and asked what he sold for. It was $600. He then asked if he could buy all of himself for $700. How strong is that? PS- he won the tournament ;)

That is damanly!
 

Tin Man

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good days

Basement dweller, I understand exactly what you mean.

When I grew up my hero was Nick Varner. The man didn't slow play and had as much offense as anyone, but he was deliberate, bore down on every shot, and never made a careless mistake. Same with Rempe, Siegel, Hall, Mizerak, etc. Plus i live in MN where Jimmy Wetch is from and many of our players emulate him, very deliberate and almost OCD.

I looked at players like Bowman and shook my head. Yeah they could play great, but at the top level you can't make unforced errors. CJ Wiley looked reckless at the table. Johnny Archer used to play pretty quick, as did his pal Dennis Hatch. And let's not forget Earl's one stroke mode. They would look like they were running the table over, but then they'd make a slip and I'd wonder why. Why would they do that?

I found that it's not that they make careless mistakes, or reckless mistakes. They truly just play quicker and more freely. And that everyone makes mistakes. And EVERYONE looks bad when they fumble.

When the fast players fumble it looks careless. When the slower players fumble it looks like the game doesn't come quite as easy for them and they are trying their best but are human. But somehow it's easier to forgive a miss when we see them sweating and struggling. But either way, it is just as bad.

And what's hard to quantify is the amazing gears that are possible when some of these fast and loose gunslingers just let loose. They can truly put so many racks together no one can keep up. It doesn't matter if player A doesn't miss if he's running racks 2 at a time, if player B is running 4s, 5s, and 6s. Player B can make a 'careless' mistake and still get the money.

Now, getting back to Bowman, I will just say this. I have played SVB probably 10 matches in my life, many on a bar table. I have played many champions. I have seen many perfect sets. But I have never quite seen anything like what Bowman does on that box. I played a tournament with him in the field in January. Shoot, he beat me 7-0 and I don't know that I had a shot at the 1. But more than that, I have never seen someone run so many packages (winner breaks 9 ball), so quickly. Situations that most people would duck, he would shoot, score, and run multiple racks from. He has an unholy way of kicking that just seems to magically make balls or get safe. He can twist, bank, back cut, combo, shoot, they just seem to all want to go in for him. When I say "Wizard", I mean it. Jesse Engel won the flip and ran out the set on him, and still after watching Bowman play Jesse told me he thought JB was an alien and literally played this game at another level.

Having seen the greats I never really believed stories about Keith McCready, all I've seen are videos of him playing inconsistently in tournaments in the late 80s-early 00s. I always thought 'he plays great for a freewheeling shortstop'. But watching Bowman opened my eyes. I can see how a player like Keith might not always get there in a tournament format. He might not be the most consistent person in the world. Maybe he has a bad day, doesn't get his right gear, or doesn't get there in time for a short race. But in a session, a cash game, a gun fight...I could see how the game would just come so much easier to him and he could run so many racks and just waltz through so many difficult racks like butter, that frankly no one could keep up. I get that now. Because I have now seen it in 2016.

Sure, SVB will still win against JB, and Kirkwood wouldn't get blown off the table. But I wouldn't want to bet a nickel against JB on a bar box unless that person had multiple player of the year titles...

Good conversation, I'd love to hear what others think.
 

xianmacx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the derby this year, jb played 2 long 8 ball sets on a diamond bar table. First was against Carlos biado, jb won. Second was Warren kiamco, warren won. With that being said, jb went through some very tough racks like butter.

He makes you shake your head at his wizardry on a bar table, but as mentioned by others, makes a couple small errors that allow the super steady top tier beat him.

All this is my opinion of course.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
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Another great post Tin Man. I love your thoughts about McCready and I've had similar thoughts myself about his game.

When I question Bowman's style of play this is where I specifically find fault with it in comparison to other fast players: When Earl plays fast (which is pretty much all the time) he still shoots the correct shot 99 percent of the time but when Bowman gets going he doesn't. He will get down on a ball and shoot it one rail for position when the correct shot is to spin it in and out of the corner -- or vise versa. It's as if he has so much confidence in his game that he chooses to attack the rack with brute force.

It sounds like Kirkwood and Bowman have similar reputations when it comes to being Houdini like.

When anyone compares players it's hard to avoid being biased based on who you've seen play in person. Sounds like you've seen them both so you have a legitimate perspective. I sure would like to see then lock horns in a long race.
 

qfans

AzB Silver Member
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Barbox

Jb put Dave on one loss side in Olathe maybe 2 years back, could be 3. Dave then put JB out at 5/6th I think. Scott Kitto took it home!
 

cueenvy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Kirkwood....if he's drinking I'm all in. The guy plays like a drunken wizard. Extremely talented player....hope he's at SBE in 5 short days.
 
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