other side of story for those interested:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=199870
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=199870
Hypothetical Survey
- Thread starter Gammaray
- Start date
well, between the 2 different threads we now have heard from one of the involved parties, until bob chimes in with his side of the "facts" i think all the original poster has done is to stir up a sh!t storm. until i hear some substantial facts to the contrary i will continue to support and believe Ray's side in this. in my own personal experiences in life when someone comes with "hypothetical" stories the truth is usually pretty weak, just sayin.
Mike
Mike
I'd hafta say that I would just "eat" that eight grand due to the fact there was no written contract. Witnesses??? Hell, the other party could bring just as many making claims to contradict yours. Don't matter if they were actually there or not. For the most part, the judge is gonna want to see written proof of any "deal".
Maniac
Maniac
Justin, I do understand your side and would like to clear this up! To the people here that have read the posts- It had nothing to do with TAR! I do apologize if this thread has gotten bent out of shape! All I was really trying to do was get opinions from the az'ers here as to what they would do if this had happened to them! Once again to Justin and the TAR crew- I do apologize for any inconvenience!
simple question
Did you start this public shitstorm with Bob "Cmbwsu" Enslow's knowledge and thumbs up?
This matter is between Ray and Bob, so I don't understand why, on such a delicate matter, you are leading the charge here. I don't care if you drove 7000 miles to set up lights 3 times and swabbed the streaming floor or whatever, it's not your money and not your fight.
Bob's fingers work just fine, as evidenced by his posting just 4 days ago. Recalling Cmbwsu's posts, I always perceived him as an intelligent, passionate, mature person.
But IMO, this is an immature junior high approach to what should be 2 adults working things out like adults. Bad form and very dissappointing.
Matt Thompson, Greensboro NC (just hates to see "us" continually shooting each other in the foot)
Did you start this public shitstorm with Bob "Cmbwsu" Enslow's knowledge and thumbs up?
This matter is between Ray and Bob, so I don't understand why, on such a delicate matter, you are leading the charge here. I don't care if you drove 7000 miles to set up lights 3 times and swabbed the streaming floor or whatever, it's not your money and not your fight.
Bob's fingers work just fine, as evidenced by his posting just 4 days ago. Recalling Cmbwsu's posts, I always perceived him as an intelligent, passionate, mature person.
But IMO, this is an immature junior high approach to what should be 2 adults working things out like adults. Bad form and very dissappointing.
Matt Thompson, Greensboro NC (just hates to see "us" continually shooting each other in the foot)
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Well said.
How much you askin for it. I can post date a check.:wink:
If there was nothing in writing it will be tough to prove anything in court. You say you have witnesses but unless the person admits anything in court it will not be enough to prevail in court. I would talk to a lawyer to see if they think you have a case. Maybe the witnesses along with written checks etc will be enough circumstantial evidence to force a settlement, or some sort of arrangement between you and the other party before it even goes to court.
I think he thought he was helping out a friend. I have done it before.
I'm not saying this thread was right or wrong , I'm just saying that was probably his thinking. I would defend my friends as well if I was passionate about an issue.
I'm just sayin'.... (my new catch phrase I've been using instead of "imo"
)
I think he thought he was helping out a friend. I have done it before.
I'm not saying this thread was right or wrong , I'm just saying that was probably his thinking. I would defend my friends as well if I was passionate about an issue.
I'm just sayin'.... (my new catch phrase I've been using instead of "imo"
It seems apparent that is the case. I don't think us cheap-seaters should cast stones for him trying to help out a friend, even if we deem this avenue misguided.
Hopefully some good will come from this and will assist the burgeoning stream industry. Streamers are really in a tough, relatively unstructured battle for success (or is it survival?). My hats off to these entrepreneurial warriors. (I think they must be half nuts!
) Come on Ray and Bob, please try to suck it up :sorry:, work it out and make lemonade. It's surely not too late to rein it in. :smile:
Actually, I could care less who is at fault or who owes who some money. Just keep the streaming coming... :smile:
If it was a personal loan, then I think many of the responses in here would be accurate. Namely the ones stating that without anything written down, a court would not believe that the money was a gift etc...
But, it was clearly a business transaction. Whether the money was loaned or given or (third option for business) invested is the key.
Obviously the person giving the money was trying to partake in the business in some form. The money was expressly for equipment for the business and the investor (for lack of a better term) started participating in business activities such as meetings and setting up streams, bringing on other people etc...
Given those circumstances I would think that the money would be treated as an investment and that the two parties, whether they like it or not, are partners. The partnership amounts are in dispute though. Is the investor a 50% partner? a 20% partner? A full owner?
Just because you're a partner doesn't mean you can demand your money back at a whim or when things go bad. For one thing, your money isn't there, it was used to try and grow the business. The results of which may or may not be realized yet. In addition, businesses fail and you might get nothing.
The equipment belongs to the business. The investor has no divisible claim on it. Neither does the streamer.
The only options I see are one partner buying the other one out or selling off equipment and dissolving the partnership or formalizing an agreement for continued operation.
The buyout could be the equipment, could be the 8K, could be some fraction of that but whatever it is, should included a written contract outlining the deal and terminating any relationship.
~rc
But, it was clearly a business transaction. Whether the money was loaned or given or (third option for business) invested is the key.
Obviously the person giving the money was trying to partake in the business in some form. The money was expressly for equipment for the business and the investor (for lack of a better term) started participating in business activities such as meetings and setting up streams, bringing on other people etc...
Given those circumstances I would think that the money would be treated as an investment and that the two parties, whether they like it or not, are partners. The partnership amounts are in dispute though. Is the investor a 50% partner? a 20% partner? A full owner?
Just because you're a partner doesn't mean you can demand your money back at a whim or when things go bad. For one thing, your money isn't there, it was used to try and grow the business. The results of which may or may not be realized yet. In addition, businesses fail and you might get nothing.
The equipment belongs to the business. The investor has no divisible claim on it. Neither does the streamer.
The only options I see are one partner buying the other one out or selling off equipment and dissolving the partnership or formalizing an agreement for continued operation.
The buyout could be the equipment, could be the 8K, could be some fraction of that but whatever it is, should included a written contract outlining the deal and terminating any relationship.
~rc
OK folks I guess it is time to let you all know what really happened! Now that the cat is out of the bag, I will be posting here what really and truthfully took place! Stay tuned for my next post as I want the people to know how it all began till present. Thanks again to everyone for your comments both negative and positive!
Is this going to be with Bob "Cmbwsu" Enslow's blessing and review for accuracy? It would obviously carry more weight that way.
But if Bob is choosing to remain in the wings, he surely has his reasons. Heck, that may make him the early favorite for the "As the Streamers Turn" Emmy Award.
Dude, get over it. You can't give us a teaser post like the one above when the story has already been put out there in other threads.
You know what I am going to stay turned for? The next Bigtruck live stream. At this point I could care less about where the money or equipment came from, this lame azz poll and your weak responses show me all I need to see.
Go Bigtruck!
I have been nice on here to everyone- But you come here bashing me for something you really and personally have no idea about! IMO-You are the one that is lame and weak!
I agree with that. Bigtruck's streams have helped me pass many boring nights. Also, I've had a fair amount of private communication with Ray, and he's always been a great, stand up guy with me.
If anyone cares to dig for them, cmbwsu, (or whatever), made a lot of posts in the funny pic thread (that weren't funny) that were blatant Bigtruck ball-hugger posts...That makes me more willing to believe the money given was a donation.
If I had money to burn, I would definitely throw some into supporting pool in any way possible, whether a return was promised or not....Therefore, it's not inconceivable that someone else might feel the same. (Unless someone makes me mad, then I can accuse them of trying to rip me off.)
That's my take, anyway.
I used to feel the same way about Ray, until he personally did wrong things to me and others!
Is this going to be with Bob "Cmbwsu" Enslow's blessing and review for accuracy? It would obviously carry more weight that way.
But if Bob is choosing to remain in the wings, he surely has his reasons. Heck, that may make him the early favorite for the "As the Streamers Turn" Emmy Award.
HaHa-that is funny-not! I don't need anyone to tell me what to write! I can handle my own. Who is helping you? LOL