I am tired of hearing people moan, groan and make smart remarks about safeties

[WilleeCue]

In my limited experience, safety play adds balance to the game. It is the one thing you can do to effect your opponents chances on the green.
I classify safeties 3 ways.
1. Failed: (the kind I play 50% of the time ) Right idea bad execution shots, and bad idea shots fall into this category.

2. Good: What I call the barbox safety. Dictates what the opponent can shoot at, and may or may not result in ball in hand. Results in comments like "man what a shitty leave" or "you haven't left me a clear shot all night". These shots often carry the risk of unintended consequences like breaking up one of my clusteers or forcing the opponent to shoot toward a hanging 8 ball (in 8 ball) or potential scratch shots. The opponent might complain but you aren't accused of playing "dirty pool".

3. Lock up. Usually results in ball in hand and the kind of *****ing the OP was talking about. In this case your opponent can't see a ball to shoot at and must kick, jump, or masse to even have a chance at a hit. These are the kind of safeties you play repeatedly when you know you are getting under your opponents skin. The kind of safety where you get ball in hand and play another lock up just to turn the screws...:grin-devilish:

I don't have any problem with the 3 foul rule as long as it's made clear up front whether it will be used or not.

B

There still are safety's with out the three foul rule.
9 ball was played for many years before it came along.

 

[Tom M]

4. This sh*t generally only happens in bars. I call it the bar player mentality which basically means they think you have to always go for something and all they end up doing is selling out all night long because of it. I personally love it!!

Yeah, you kind of have to expect it in bars, and go along with it. But I am truly AMAZED that this happens in leagues and tournament play. I guess I'd be tempted to say something like" "Go watch the pros bonehead. That's the way the game is played!"

Tom

 

[DelaWho???]

There still are safety's with out the three foul rule.
9 ball was played for many years before it came along.

It isn't used where I play, but if those are the rules and I know in advance that's what is played then I have no problem with it.

B

 

[Pii]

Yeah ... sounds like a hustler move ... dont it.

The 9 ball rules were changed to include the three foul rule because of TV, not because it improved the game.
(thank you Robin Adair and Texas Express)
Watching two guys shoot safety after safety is not good TV.
That is why you dont see one pocket matches on TV.

There is nothing wrong with modifying the rules BEFORE the game.
Just like giving a spot or some weight.
If you dont think you can win by just out shooting the guy ... then dont play. Its a free country isnt it?

I would rather play one pocket, straight pool, or 8 ball.
But if a player insists on 9 ball then I insist on 'no three foul rule'.
It really is no big deal to someone that can actually run a few balls.

You kids need to try playing pool the old school way.
Playing it the way it was played BEFORE the rules were changed to suit television.

The 3 foul rule wasn't added for TV the one foul ball in hand was. I played back in the day of two foul push out and we played the 3 foul rule before I ever saw a TV match. When was the last time you saw a 3 foul win on TV? I' guessing NEVER.

I still don't get why you insist on no 3 foul rule it's not like that's all anyone tries. I bet I haven't 3 fouled someone in a year. It's not easy against a decent player. Good safeties are good shots and it has NOTHING to do with how many balls you can run.

Do you also insist on two fouls before Ball in hand? do you insist on spotting balls if you scratch? Do you insist on playing the way the old times played it?

Why does this one rule upset you so?

And I'm no kid and did play the old way and I still prefer it but times have changed quit living in the past old timer

Take care

 

[Pii]

Yeah, you kind of have to expect it in bars, and go along with it. But I am truly AMAZED that this happens in leagues and tournament play. I guess I'd be tempted to say something like" "Go watch the pros bonehead. That's the way the game is played!"

Tom

Well there are quite a few "Bangers" in leagues but I have to agree about it in a tournament. Unless it's a bar tournament.

 

[223tracer]

I think not learning how to utilize every weapon in the game is a big mistake. There are plenty of people who don't want to jump or learn how to kick right and that is why they go broke all the time. Getting someone on 3 fouls is not easy. It's an art all by itself. I don't know about everyone else, but trying to get that 3rd foul on someone is probably the hardest.

 

[RRfireblade]

Love it when they moan and groan . . .

Now I know how to piss them off.

Like taking candy from a baby at that point.

 

[Big Perm]

Just to add my two cents on the topic...

Playing safe is an integral part of the game....it's impressive to see someone break out a great safe when the moment dictates....it adds flavor and shows creativity.....despite a players level or skill, it can be difficult to get on every ball and run out every rack.....in a quick race to 7 that goes to the hill, I would expect at least 2 runouts per player and 2-3 safeties....

But you can have too much of a good thing....there is a growing number of players that seem to be using safety play to try and shadow their poor position play and pocketing skills.....it's annoying to see players favor a safety over an easy runout or shots that are less than straight-in....yeah, they might steal a game they shouldn't have, but the final result is the same and I don't enjoy playing them, don't have respect for them, and won't look to play them in the future....my time is valuable, and the rare chances I get to play will not be spent on a hack...

again, just my opinion, but I'm proud to own it

 

[Pushout]

Safety play has always been a part of 9 ball, even with the Pushout rules. That said, I've hated the one-foul-ball-in-hand, three foul loss of game rules since they came out. And, before you start, I kick pretty damn well when I have to. It's nonsense that because you don't like those rules that you can't kick or jump. I will not play the three foul rule unless I absolutely have to.
I've pretty much given up on 9 ball and prefer 10 ball if I have to play a rotation-like game.
In my experience, only bar players complain about safety play. Or people who have never taken the game seriously enough to understand it.
It's like a bar player saying Straight pool is too easy because you can shoot any ball.

 

[TXsouthpaw]

Safies are part of the game. Not allowing them would be like not allowing combinations or bankshots or pushouts. You cant pick and choose the rules to fit your mood.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I play in a lot of tournaments, and i do my fair share of gambling, and one thing i just cannot stand is when people, some of them experienced players, have to make a stupid remark getting up from their chair after you have played a good saftey. I am a firm believer if you are playing someone with a fair amount of money on the line, that you are not supposed to converse with them unless its about a game ruling (unless you have agreed conversation is ok beforehand), and i think all these stupid remarks people make if you soft break or play good safe. And god forbid if you 3 foul someone, they go berzerk, pointing out how weak your run out game must be, instead of looking at their own inability to use the rails.

I was playing 10 ball on a bar table a few months ago race to 5 for 100. The guy i was playing was a good shotmaker but his position was pretty bad and he had no idea what to do with the rails. On the case game when i was on the hill, there were 3 balls left on the table, one of them frozen on the point of the side pocket in such a way it doesnt go down table without scratching, so i played 2 easy safes, both of which he missed kicking at, and he lost. He slams his cue down, throws a crumpled bunch of 20s on the table and says never again is he going to play "non runout dudes" and i havent seen him sense. These people have no concept of percentage play whatsoever.

The part that irks me the most is not that he got mad, but what he got mad at. If you miss a kick 3 times on a bartable when theres 3 balls left, and youre not playing efren, then you ought to look at your own rail game, instead of making sucker remarks. I consider remarks like these shark moves.

Just my soapbox. anyone else have any similar stories?

Yoo play fair, and with in the rules, forget the members of CLUB BMW (B***H, moan, and whine)

 

[Scaramouche]

If pool banned safeties, the good players would move to Snooker:grin: :grin: :grin:


2008 World Series of Snooker - Berlin
One Red Ball - So Much Trouble
Stephen Maguire vs Shaun Murphy
Frame 5
http://youtube.com/watch?v=k3teVfnFFQo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5sPHCsz6VdU

 

[WilleeCue]

Safies are part of the game. Not allowing them would be like not allowing combinations or bankshots or pushouts. You cant pick and choose the rules to fit your mood.

I agree about safeties being part of the game.
Dont you all know how 9 ball used to be played.


There were safeties allowed.
Any player could shoot a safety anytime he wanted to.

The new rule about three fouls and lose is what I dont agree with.

 

[Pii]

Just to add my two cents on the topic...

.

But you can have too much of a good thing....there is a growing number of players that seem to be using safety play to try and shadow their poor position play and pocketing skills.....it's annoying to see players favor a safety over an easy runout or shots that are less than straight-in....yeah, they might steal a game they shouldn't have, but the final result is the same and I don't enjoy playing them, don't have respect for them, and won't look to play them in the future....my time is valuable, and the rare chances I get to play will not be spent on a hack...

again, just my opinion, but I'm proud to own it

Maybe they're playing a safety instead of a run out because they see or know something you don't.

1. I've never seen anyone play a safe instead of an easy out...it just doesn't make sense. If they are then they are a "hack" and probably couldn't have made that easy run out.

2. Being straight in could be a good reason to play a safe.

 

[Pii]

I agree about safeties being part of the game.
Dont you all know how 9 ball used to be played.


There were safeties allowed.
Any player could shoot a safety anytime he wanted to.

The new rule about three fouls and lose is what I don't agree with.

BUT WHY!!!???

 

[WilleeCue]

Because 9 ball should only be won by making the nine ball.
It is supposed to be a game of making balls not hiding the cue ball to win by fouling out the other player.
I dont disagree with the strategy of playing a safety just the part of three fouls and you lose.
Isnt the ball in hand enough advantage for someone to win?

 

[Febreze]

Because 9 ball should only be won by making the nine ball.
It is supposed to be a game of making balls not hiding the cue ball to win by fouling out the other player.
I dont disagree with the strategy of playing a safety just the part of three fouls and you lose.
Isnt the ball in hand enough advantage for someone to win?

If the table is open with ball in hand i dont know ANYONE who would go to three foul someone, but if you get ball in hand and theres 2 or 3 unbreakable clusters on the table, what are you supposed to do? Just shoot at balls and pray they go in? sounds like something a banger would do.

 

[Siz]

Safety battles

What this guy said. Or if you absolutely have to, ask before-hand if safeties are allowed. Lol.

Interesting thread, and I think trueblu8 has got it about right.

I agree with those who have said here that safeties are an integral part of the game. Without safeties, pool can become 1-dimensional and sometimes downright boring. Certainly when I see two 8-ball players constantly going for runnouts that they are not capable of getting more than 1 time in 3, I find it totally unwatchable.

But equally certainly, many others will disagree. As contributors to this thread will testify, the world is full of bars populated by players who hate safeties and for whom the pleasure of pool lies in pocketing balls.

And there lies the problem: In your typical bar, the game is often played differently to the way it is played in tournaments. Sure it might still be called 8- or 9-ball etc, but it is 8- or 9-ball with slightly different rules. Maybe these rules are not written down anywhere, but that doesn't matter. As long as the regulars at that bar all understand what is acceptable and what is not, and all play by the same set of (written & unwritten) rules, everything is dandy.

Of course the arguments happen when a tournament-style player (for want of a better description) walks into the bar and starts playing by his rules. Like so many heated arguments, the root cause is that neither party can understand where the other guy is coming from: The tournament-style player cannot understand what the bar regular's problem is, since safeties are allowed in the official (correct) rules and played by almost all good players. But all the bar regular plays night after night, and sees his fellow regulars playing, is the no-safety game. On his patch, the unofficial rule set that says 'no safeties allowed here' has become legitimized by custom.

The problem is that both players think that they are playing 9-ball (or whatever) by the 'right' rules and that the other is not. :angry: But suppose everyone stopped using the same name '9-ball' for what are in fact two different games, and instead called them say, 'bar 9-ball' and 'tournament 9-ball'. Surely the misunderstandings, and consequent arguments, would disappear over night.

I am not really suggesting introducing new names for pool, but as trueblu9 suggested, why not just ask beforehand whether safeties are allowed?

Or as DelaWho?? said far more succinctly then I have, "if those are the rules and I know in advance that's what is played then I have no problem with it"

 

[Pii]

Because 9 ball should only be won by making the nine ball.
It is supposed to be a game of making balls not hiding the cue ball to win by fouling out the other player.
I dont disagree with the strategy of playing a safety just the part of three fouls and you lose.
Isnt the ball in hand enough advantage for someone to win?

You make it sound all anyone does is try to hide the 9ball. Losing on 3 fouls is rare, I haven't been 3 fouled in years. Also if it's a game of making balls (aren't all pool games that way) shouldn't you ban safes completely ?) ohhhh wait you're one of the guys this tread is about aren't you? :grin:

Do you lose if you scratch on the 8 in 8ball? Aren't you suppose to win by making the 8 ? I don't know it seems like a small thing to be so worked up about.

It seems like you should be more worried about ball in hand after only one foul than being three fouled.

Oh well I guess we'll never gamble at 9 ball

Take care.

 

[sjm]

I hold low-skill amateurs that complain about safety play in similar regard to pros and other serious players that advocate rewriting the rulebook in a way that would largely eliminate the two way shot.

If low-skill amateurs should stop whining about safety play, then highly skilled players should stop whining about the fact that they are sometimes left safe when an opponent misses a shot.

Defense and two-way shots are part of the game, and low-skill and high-skill players need to embrace this, rather than moaning interminably that the rules are inappropriate.