I apoligize
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
I also read the entire thread and I felt that an apology was in order. Not for what he initially said, about Larry being a drunk, which BTW, didn't NEED to be said, but mainly for what transpired afterward between him, JAM, and Keith. Keith and Grady have known each other for years, obviously, and have had plenty of run ins with each other on and off the table, but Grady did not need to say the things that he said to JAM. What did she do to deserve that? If something happened between JAM and Grady's wife in the past, then that should be settled outside of the forum. Also, for as long as Grady has been in and around this game, I'm sure he has befriended plenty of drug addicts/alcoholics in his time but to insinuate that all of them have burned him in some way or another is misleading. Sure, we've all met some shady characters in our lives through this game, but do we let them all take advantage of us? C'mon, Grady is a smart man, how could he let every single one of these shady characters get in his pocket? Anyway, Grady, I commend you for your apology, FWIW. Peace, John.
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Rude Dog said:
John~ Where is this thread? I have been so involved with "other"
things that I missed why an apology is needed?
I agree that the appology was in order. If one reads the entire thread they will see that Jam and Keith stayed out of personal attacks the entire time even when under attack themselves. Jam and Keith took the high road in that thread and they should be commended for it. Grady took the way of the gutter and he definately needed to make ammends over his very personal attacks he put out there. One can read the thread and pick out alot of personal attacks Grady put out on Jam and Keith, you will see they returned none in kind.
Grady said:
Well grady it seems to me that you apologized to everybody on here cuz of what has been said. I applaud you for that. But now i have a question for you. DID you ever apologize to Johnny Archers new wife after the roast at the U.S.Open a couple of years ago? I feel that you owe her a big one after what was said by you that night. I also know that you embarrased the hell out of her . I know that cuz she was sitting at the same table as me and alot of other people................................................mike
My two cents worth
I have to say that I read that entire thread and I have to agree..... Agree with what? That everybodies right and he both should and shouldn't have had to apologize. I think it was wrong for JAM to state that he shouldn't have said what he said. It wasn't worded in a condescending matter, just a statement of fact. Grady then stated he didn't really care to have nor did he need JAM's acknowledgement to say what he wanted to say. I understand where she was coming from. When a person is not here to defend himself, I can see that she would be offended that someone would talk about someone's drinking problems or problems with the law with so much non-chalance.
I personally think that Grady's original post should be respected. His opinion from personal observation was all that was being stated and while a lack of consideration may have been inherent, Grady didn't appear to be derogatory.
Now for the follow up, which is what he was really apologizing for. Yes he rather overreacted a bit. You have to also understand that if you're a stand up guy living in the world of pool for as many years as Grady, then you're going to be a bit cantankerous. The amount of double dealing no respecting young pieces of crap in the world of pool is unprecedented and He probably has been screwed over so many times it's pathetic and that would wear on anyone.
I haven't seen him play anyone, sorry I don't get out of Cali much and right now I'm stuck in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,(long story). SO I can't talk to his character, even if all of the stories of his reactions to matches I've read are true, it's almost understandable for the previously stated reasons.
Yes, that's a reason not an excuse, so I think that he was right to apologize, but let's understand something right now, EVERYONE in the world of pool has been an A-hole at one time or another and while Grady may be a bit cantankerous now, he has been a big part of the pool world and his memories and opinions do deserve a certain modicum of respect.
Now I have heard stories about Keith, please don't take offense I just heard them, about substance abuse issues. If I've heard them I'm sure other people have heard them and this would better justify JAM's initial reaction to the drunk commment, so I think that everyone needs to just take a step back calm down and be a little more open to everyone's possible sensitivities.
If someone thinks I'm out of line with this post, feel free to say so. I mean most of the people on this site don't know me from adam and I definitely don't want to create any animosity so soon after coming here. I've been in the pool community for some time, but circumstances have prevented me from truly getting involved. That will soon change though
I have to say that I read that entire thread and I have to agree..... Agree with what? That everybodies right and he both should and shouldn't have had to apologize. I think it was wrong for JAM to state that he shouldn't have said what he said. It wasn't worded in a condescending matter, just a statement of fact. Grady then stated he didn't really care to have nor did he need JAM's acknowledgement to say what he wanted to say. I understand where she was coming from. When a person is not here to defend himself, I can see that she would be offended that someone would talk about someone's drinking problems or problems with the law with so much non-chalance.
I personally think that Grady's original post should be respected. His opinion from personal observation was all that was being stated and while a lack of consideration may have been inherent, Grady didn't appear to be derogatory.
Now for the follow up, which is what he was really apologizing for. Yes he rather overreacted a bit. You have to also understand that if you're a stand up guy living in the world of pool for as many years as Grady, then you're going to be a bit cantankerous. The amount of double dealing no respecting young pieces of crap in the world of pool is unprecedented and He probably has been screwed over so many times it's pathetic and that would wear on anyone.
I haven't seen him play anyone, sorry I don't get out of Cali much and right now I'm stuck in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,(long story). SO I can't talk to his character, even if all of the stories of his reactions to matches I've read are true, it's almost understandable for the previously stated reasons.
Yes, that's a reason not an excuse, so I think that he was right to apologize, but let's understand something right now, EVERYONE in the world of pool has been an A-hole at one time or another and while Grady may be a bit cantankerous now, he has been a big part of the pool world and his memories and opinions do deserve a certain modicum of respect.
Now I have heard stories about Keith, please don't take offense I just heard them, about substance abuse issues. If I've heard them I'm sure other people have heard them and this would better justify JAM's initial reaction to the drunk commment, so I think that everyone needs to just take a step back calm down and be a little more open to everyone's possible sensitivities.
If someone thinks I'm out of line with this post, feel free to say so. I mean most of the people on this site don't know me from adam and I definitely don't want to create any animosity so soon after coming here. I've been in the pool community for some time, but circumstances have prevented me from truly getting involved. That will soon change though
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
Seeing as how this won't go away - I Think.........
Seeing as how this won't go away - as I Think it should, I'll speak my mind.
I think this was and is between Grady & JAM. I hated seeing it in the first place. Maybe it would have been better off being addressed by both parties via PM's or phone.
The only thing worse than a negative post - is - a negative response and it almost always follows.
I hate to see AZ turn into a RSB kind of forum and I AM ALSO VERY SURE GRADY, JAM & KEITH don’t want it to either.
All three are great people that are VERY PRO POOL opinionated and when you’re that involved and set in your thinking, all may have said some things that they wish now never were
So lets all just let it go.
Just (MHO) - TY & GL
Seeing as how this won't go away - as I Think it should, I'll speak my mind.
I think this was and is between Grady & JAM. I hated seeing it in the first place. Maybe it would have been better off being addressed by both parties via PM's or phone.
The only thing worse than a negative post - is - a negative response and it almost always follows.
I hate to see AZ turn into a RSB kind of forum and I AM ALSO VERY SURE GRADY, JAM & KEITH don’t want it to either.
All three are great people that are VERY PRO POOL opinionated and when you’re that involved and set in your thinking, all may have said some things that they wish now never were
So lets all just let it go.
Just (MHO) - TY & GL
Celtic said:
Grady never even engaged JAM in this conversation till she said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady
...Larry Liscotti, before he became a drunk, never played a game that I saw where he didn't run a hundred, on all types of equipment. I oughta' know. In central CT somewhere he ran 150 and out on me for $2,000 and 138 and out for $5,000....
Calling Larry a "drunk" is pretty sad, Grady, considering he has passed. I'm sure most who know and love Larry Lisciotti would like folks to remember him for his MANY attributes, one being a straight pool phenom and another being an entertainer with a great sense of humor. There was never a dull moment when Larry Lisciotti was in the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grady
...I played Ervolino lots of times, too. The prejail Johnny was a far superior player to the older Johnny.
I'd venture to say the same about most players when they age, whether they were incarcerated or not. I'd imagine your game, Grady, ain't anywhere near what it used to be since you have entered the autumn of your life. Twenty years ago, you'd probably give weight to most one-pocket players.
Hopefully, 50 or 100 years from now, there will be many GOOD things to remember about Grady Mathews. Celebrity pool players who live in glass houses should not throw bricks (IMO).
JAM
JAM's comments to Grady were condescending and derogatory, not to mention inaccurate distortions of what he said. Grady's point about Larry was how great Larry was before he became a drunk. Same with Johnny Ervolino. Johnny damn sure was a better player before he got sent up than after. Is it some kind of secret that he went to jail? Hardly. Was it a setback to his pool playing? You bet it was. So how in the world can Grady be criticized for stating the obvious?
Furthermore, to know Grady is to know the obvious affection and respect he felt for both those players, as well as his great love of the game of pool. It anything, his comments about both players reflected his resentment for the forces of evil (drink and drugs) that stole from them the radiance of their tremendous talent. That was the point of his comments, not the distortions JAM inferred.
As for the ensuing pissing contest between JAM and Grady, and later joined by Keith, it all started from the uncalled for comments by JAM, listed above. Had not JAM entered it with her condescending tone, it never would have started.
tedkaufman said:
You know, tedkaufman, I've avoided this thread for several days now, wondering why in the hell anyone would want to have it resurface, 3-1/2 months after the fact. Noticing you joined AzBilliards Discussion Forum as a member in October of 2005, three out of your five posts relate to Grady Mathews.
Not only have your brought this lame thread front and center with your uncalled-for comments about me and mine, but everything you have insinuated about me and my intentions, unfounded I might add, you're doing the same thing yourself, targeting Keith and me.
Now, if you want to bring out your Grady Mathews' pom-poms and marvel at what a wonderful person he is, so be it, but when you attempt to do so at the expense of feeding a flame that had died out 3-1/2 months ago, I do question your intentions.
Some people like to fight, whether by words on a forum or with their fists in public. Some may crave the negative attention.
I have every damn right to express any opinion I so desire. If one were to read the beginning of the thread in question, I was actually giving Grady Mathews a little tap-tap-tap about a comment he made before he called the late-Larry Lisciotti a "drunk."
I have not enjoyed the atmosphere on the forum in recent times, and I have made great efforts to stay out of the flames, but you are the icing on the cake. Now go find another fire to start, if it makes you feel good. This type of colloquy is only designed to target me. Do you feel better now?
JAM
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tedkaufman said:
I dont know what words your mind is adding to the quotes you yourself made but the only person being condescending and derogatory in all the posts you made was Grady when he made his initial post which was little more then a personal attack on Larry Liscioti and Johnny Ervolino, who are both deceased and cannot defend themselves.
JAM's response was VERY reserved and not once did she attack Grady in her response. She attacked his actions and his post but she NEVER got personal, and that stands true throughout the entire thread. The same can NOT be said about Grady, who jumped onto that thread and started gossiping like some bitter old fart whose pissed off at the world because he had to get old about people who are best left at peace. What good comes of the kind of crap that Grady was saying? Thats right nothing, other then to stroke his hugely fractured ego. In the twilight of Grady's life he has proven himself to be quite the judgmental asshole. Maybe I will strive to be like him and in 5 or 10 years when he is dead I can start running around on various message boards telling everyone what a dink he was. I am sure he would be proud that he left that kind of a example on the world.
JAM said:
I can fully understand why you have a persecution complex.
Celtic said:
I won't even comment on the rest of your post. None of your comments are based on fact and they don't warrant acknowledgement.
JAM is one of the most respected people on this forum and provides more insight to tournaments/action that goes around this country than anyone. You, on the other hand (tedkaufman) have provided not a positive contribution yet on this forum. Quite frankly, you haven't a leg to stand on with your accusations.
1pRoscoe said:
How about simply standing on truth? Can you point out ONE thing I said that was NOT true?