I have an alignment error that I cannot seem to fix.

ChopStick

ChopStick

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Silver Member
I have been aware for some time that I have a visual error. I see the center of the cue ball as being slightly to the right of where is actually is. I discovered this using Joe Tuckers pitchfork looking thing. I forget what it is called. I have also used Joes laser trainer which showed me the same thing. That is easy enough to deal with because I know it is there.

Yesterday, I got serious about accuracy in cue ball contact. I spent three hours doing the drill where you shoot the cue ball down the table, hold your tip in the finish position and have the cue ball come back and hit your tip. I was using a measle ball so I could see any spin I put on it. The problem is that when I do this, the cue ball comes back to the right of my shaft every time. It is not by much. The left edge of the cue ball comes down the right edge of my shaft. It happens so consistently I began to wonder if the table was not level. I tried this on different tables and the result is the same and by the same amount. Different speeds also produce the same result. Always to the right. Never, not one time did it go left.

Well, I started changing my stance, head position, stroke position bending myself around like a pretzel and maybe once in thirty tries I get the right result but I cannot repeat it for more than two or three times. Then it goes back to the right. The only good news is that when I do it right, however that is happening, the center of the cue ball comes right back to the center of my tip. I saw my own chalk mark right above the center of my tip once.

I am shooting these shots diamond to diamond. I tried moving the tip to the left but I can see left hand spin on the cue ball as it is leaving and it still comes back to the right. The only thing I can think of is that I am missing the diamond. It all ties back to how I am lining up to the shot. Something is wrong and I just can't find it.
 
Try putting a piece of chalk on the diamond you're aiming. Corner edge of the chalk facing you. This might help, in particular if you shoot down on the cue. (chin close to cue)

Also, if you shoot from the spot, you may want to check and make sure it is centered. Sounds strange but if it's off a little it could effect the result.
 
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Hi Chopstick... did you check your Pool Table for squareness...?

Did you do some video, to help you spot a possible problem?
 
Eagleshot said:
Try putting a piece of chalk on the diamond you're aiming. Corner edge of the chalk facing you. This might help, in particular if you shoot down on the cue. (chin close to cue)

Also, if you shoot from the spot, you may want to check and make sure it is centered. Sounds strange but if it's off a little it could effect the result.
Click to expand...

Yes. I did that. I also tried shooting from various heights above the shaft to check the visual reference.
 
On your next visit to the optometrist ask them to check for prism correction (it's not part of the standard exam; you have to ask for it).

Prism correction is when one of your eyes (or both, but just one is enough to screw things up) isn't looking straight ahead. In your case it sounds like one eye might be looking slightly to the left. It creates a double image that you can't really discern, but it's enough to throw things off.

I've lived with it all my life, but never realized I had it until I took up pool 18 months ago. I played high school and college football, pretty serious tennis, etc., all without ever knowing I was seeing double. But billiards is the most exacting thing I've ever asked my eyes to do...and that's when it became apparent.

The bad part is that it can only be corrected with glasses; contacts or lasik surgery can't correct it.
 
If you hold your cue they same each time, try re-shaping your cue's tip to make sure it is perfectly centered at it's peak and evenly shaped outward.
 
ceebee said:
Hi Chopstick... did you check your Pool Table for squareness...?

Did you do some video, to help you spot a possible problem?
Click to expand...

Hey buddy. I did not check the table for squareness though it was playing that way. I tried this on more than one table so I am pretty sure it's me that ain't square.

My video camera, along with my BreakRak, is locked up in storage down in Florida. I am in Memphis now. Don't know when I will get back down to get my stuff. In the meantime, I have been eyeballing your new design. If I can get this fixed, working out with the breakrak is next. I might just break down and buy another one. It's cheaper that the gas to go get my other one.
 
keep using Joe's aiming thingy. Isn't that what it is supposed to do. retrain you to hit correctly ?

or the obvious. setup your shot and then move parrellel left a little bit.
 
I have the same problem. It probably made me quit the game for 20 years because of the frustration it caused. I started playing again about 3 years ago and it was still there!

If I put left english on the cue ball, I got left spin. If I hit center ball, I got right spin. The culprit was trying to stay centered on the cue ball visually and let my eyes naturally guide me to a straight line.

While most people can get this to work for them effortlessly, I switched back and forth between eyes with my aiming. Most players use both eyes to aim, but I discovered I had a straight line if I kept my aiming limited to favoring my right eye.

Years of poor alignment by letting my eyes share the workload turned me into a schizo player. I played like Willie one night, and embarassed myself the next. I had no idea what was wrong and ingrained my bad habits even more.

By carefully making sure I'm lining up favoring my right side, my head gets into the right position. I make sure my foot (arch not toe), hip and hand come down on the shot line. My head was turning as I got down on the shot and my left eye would move over the stick, but only on certain shots. I would have trouble with only those shots and started to avoid them. Very frustrating after a couple of nice racks and then drive the money ball into a rail.

I move/turn my head to the left and life is good. My body follows what my eyes see. I can hit dead center much better now and it looks like dead center to my computer. Every once in a while I get lazy, but I know how to fix it.

Best,
Mike
 
How firm were you hitting the cue ball to do this drill?

ChopStick said:
I have been aware for some time that I have a visual error. I see the center of the cue ball as being slightly to the right of where is actually is. I discovered this using Joe Tuckers pitchfork looking thing. I forget what it is called. I have also used Joes laser trainer which showed me the same thing. That is easy enough to deal with because I know it is there.

Yesterday, I got serious about accuracy in cue ball contact. I spent three hours doing the drill where you shoot the cue ball down the table, hold your tip in the finish position and have the cue ball come back and hit your tip. I was using a measle ball so I could see any spin I put on it. The problem is that when I do this, the cue ball comes back to the right of my shaft every time. It is not by much. The left edge of the cue ball comes down the right edge of my shaft. It happens so consistently I began to wonder if the table was not level. I tried this on different tables and the result is the same and by the same amount. Different speeds also produce the same result. Always to the right. Never, not one time did it go left.

Well, I started changing my stance, head position, stroke position bending myself around like a pretzel and maybe once in thirty tries I get the right result but I cannot repeat it for more than two or three times. Then it goes back to the right. The only good news is that when I do it right, however that is happening, the center of the cue ball comes right back to the center of my tip. I saw my own chalk mark right above the center of my tip once.

I am shooting these shots diamond to diamond. I tried moving the tip to the left but I can see left hand spin on the cue ball as it is leaving and it still comes back to the right. The only thing I can think of is that I am missing the diamond. It all ties back to how I am lining up to the shot. Something is wrong and I just can't find it.
Click to expand...

How firm were you hitting the cue ball to do this drill? I would suggest hitting it so the cue ball would go 3 table lengths (27ft) in speed.

I may have not understood, it just sounds like you're "slow rolling" the stroke, which is almost setting yourself up to de accelerate, and that's not desirable imo.

The Break Rak is the best practice devise to "fine tune" your stoke, and it's "not just for breaking anymore". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
Simplify

ChopStick said:
I have been aware for some time that I have a visual error. I see the center of the cue ball as being slightly to the right of where is actually is. I discovered this using Joe Tuckers pitchfork looking thing. I forget what it is called. I have also used Joes laser trainer which showed me the same thing. That is easy enough to deal with because I know it is there.

Yesterday, I got serious about accuracy in cue ball contact. I spent three hours doing the drill where you shoot the cue ball down the table, hold your tip in the finish position and have the cue ball come back and hit your tip. I was using a measle ball so I could see any spin I put on it. The problem is that when I do this, the cue ball comes back to the right of my shaft every time. It is not by much. The left edge of the cue ball comes down the right edge of my shaft. It happens so consistently I began to wonder if the table was not level. I tried this on different tables and the result is the same and by the same amount. Different speeds also produce the same result. Always to the right. Never, not one time did it go left.

Well, I started changing my stance, head position, stroke position bending myself around like a pretzel and maybe once in thirty tries I get the right result but I cannot repeat it for more than two or three times. Then it goes back to the right. The only good news is that when I do it right, however that is happening, the center of the cue ball comes right back to the center of my tip. I saw my own chalk mark right above the center of my tip once.

I am shooting these shots diamond to diamond. I tried moving the tip to the left but I can see left hand spin on the cue ball as it is leaving and it still comes back to the right. The only thing I can think of is that I am missing the diamond. It all ties back to how I am lining up to the shot. Something is wrong and I just can't find it.
Click to expand...

Try this. You seem to play enough that your probably walking up to the shot the same every time which is Good and what you want....if not then you need to fix this first. If your cutting a ball to the right, and your consistently over or undercutting the ball, that's a good thing and fixable, Same goes for a left hand cut. Just walk up to the shot a 'little' more left or right before your down on the shot with your hand on table. It won't seem or feel right, but try it....it works. When I shoot a break shot I just walk up and alls good, but if I cut a shot down the rail to the right, I have to walk up to the shot more left and vise versa. Your body as it comes from the upright position then down to the play surface to cut a ball contorts differently for each person, and moreso with taller people (not always). By watching your makes and misses 100% of the time, your answers will be addressed. Now if your at a play level where your not totally understanding ball collisions, you've got more work to do.
 
I think youre on the right track, Chop. Dollar for dollar, Joes 3rd eye stroke trainer is the best training aid I ever bought. You had the patience to do that boring ass drill for 3 hours? God bless you my man, I could never do that!

I prefer the "more is less" approach. 15-20 minutes a day, or even 3 times a week should do the trick. You cant expect to straighten yourself out in one outing. Do the drill from both ends of the table, and exaggerate the follow through as much as you can.
 
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Possible head/eye alignment issue, related to eye dominance (or no dominance at all!)

ChopStick said:
I have been aware for some time that I have a visual error. I see the center of the cue ball as being slightly to the right of where is actually is. I discovered this using Joe Tuckers pitchfork looking thing. I forget what it is called. I have also used Joes laser trainer which showed me the same thing. That is easy enough to deal with because I know it is there.

Yesterday, I got serious about accuracy in cue ball contact. I spent three hours doing the drill where you shoot the cue ball down the table, hold your tip in the finish position and have the cue ball come back and hit your tip. I was using a measle ball so I could see any spin I put on it. The problem is that when I do this, the cue ball comes back to the right of my shaft every time. It is not by much. The left edge of the cue ball comes down the right edge of my shaft. It happens so consistently I began to wonder if the table was not level. I tried this on different tables and the result is the same and by the same amount. Different speeds also produce the same result. Always to the right. Never, not one time did it go left.

Well, I started changing my stance, head position, stroke position bending myself around like a pretzel and maybe once in thirty tries I get the right result but I cannot repeat it for more than two or three times. Then it goes back to the right. The only good news is that when I do it right, however that is happening, the center of the cue ball comes right back to the center of my tip. I saw my own chalk mark right above the center of my tip once.

I am shooting these shots diamond to diamond. I tried moving the tip to the left but I can see left hand spin on the cue ball as it is leaving and it still comes back to the right. The only thing I can think of is that I am missing the diamond. It all ties back to how I am lining up to the shot. Something is wrong and I just can't find it.
Click to expand...

ChopStick:

Sounds like you have an alignment perception error (i.e. head/eye alignment over the cue, in relation to a dominant eye). Like you, I once had this issue where I was just ever-so-slightly hitting the cue ball off-center, and, for me, it had to do with the fact that I seemed to be favoring the left eye due to the natural 45-degree alignment to the shot line that the normal pool stance puts the player in. (That is, for a right-hander, the 45-degree alignment naturally puts the head at a slight diagonal alignment over the cue such that the left eye slightly "leads" over the cue. If you're a right-hander and left-eye-dominant, this is alignment nirvana. Good examples are Willie Mosconi and Ralf Souquet.) But for me, it wasn't nirvana, and I would consistently hit the cue ball just slightly to the right of center. I adapted my aiming / potting accordingly, but I never figured out why I couldn't "find" center ball, especially on the "lag the cue ball up the length of the table and back to the tip" drill.

Fast forward a couple years, when I was completely wowed by a snooker professional thwacking the back of the pockets on a 12-foot snooker table at long distances, and I was inspired to throw away my pool stance and adopt snooker fundamentals. Snooker fundamentals force you to adopt a square stance over the cue, and for the first time, my face was squared over the cue and I could "find" center ball on that lagging drill every time. Again, though, I was still at a loss why I couldn't achieve the same thing with the pool stance. This was an open, nagging question to me for the longest time.

Fast forward another couple of years, when I accidentally discovered the publication "Answers to a Pool Player's Prayers" by Richard Kranicki, and the answer hit me right square in the forehead. I discovered, through the drills, examples, and drawings/photos in this publication, that I was 100% "equal-eyed" binocular -- meaning, no eye dominance. The pool stance, through the natural 45-degree angle that it "wants" put your head/eye alignment in (i.e. making my left eye "lead" over the cue slightly), was discriminating against my right eye, and my mind, being used to equal-eye perception, was pulling the cue slightly to the right to compensate. I had no idea, but thanks to the very descriptive drawings in this publication, it was clear as day to me from then on. All I had to do during my pool stance days, was just crane my neck a bit (just a bit) to turn my head slightly to the left to square my face over the cue. However, the snooker fundamentals solved this problem -- inadvertently and unbeknownst to me at the time -- permanently, so this is the way I play now.

This book, to me, is worth its weight in gold. Here's a quick link to its entry on Amazon, if you're interested:

http://amazon.com/Answers-Players-Prayers-Richard-Kranicki/dp/1588204456

I hope this is helpful!
-Sean
 
Sean,
Thanks for reminding me to use the snooker stance that locks you into position. I found that the traditional stance allows one to move sideways to adjust the aim. As easy as it is to adjust, it is just as easy to move ever slightly off line before the final stroke.

Just me.:)
 
Set up a mirror at the opposite end of the table.
You will see before you shoot if your cue is not going straight through the cue ball and can correct your position.
That way you will only practice the correctly aligned stroke. :D

Swiped from Steve Davis :D
 
The snooker stance may or may not help you out, I've never tried a "side on" stance so I can't comment on how one perceives center ball from that stance and head placement.

However you should give the snooker stance a try. Once you've found the line the CB needs to take stand with your right foot (for right handed players) on that line with your foot pointing down the line. Next move your left foot out to around shoulder width apart. Try creating the line from tip of the left foot to tip of right foot 90 degrees to the line the CB is going to take, and just lean into position on the CB. This should get you to center ball. It may feel uncomfortable at first but you get used to it.

Also, Dr Dave posted a link to finding your vision center...give it a read. Very useful if what you think you're aiming at is center ball, but infact isn't. That one link alone should be enough to help you solve the problem.

Good luck.
 
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