I just was given a response that amazed me.

[bfdlad]

I own a room, and I think the guy is a freaking idiot!!!!! I would pay some money, plus give free table time if I were in his place. In 2007 I gladly paid Grady to come all the way to Washington State to put on his History of Pool and to put on an Exhibition. In addition I paid Grady and his wifes hotel bill for a couple of nights, without being asked.

I had a hugh turn out, and I charged a $25 door fee for the day. With the door fee, repairs and the sale of food, beer, and soft drinks I more than broke even, which was much more than I expected. I mainly did it for my customers, and they are still talking about it to this day, oh and asking when I will do it again.

Like I said, the dude is an idiot, and a terrible businessman!!!!!!!!

I may be able to help you

 

[mullyman]

I see what you are saying and it is a good point. However, I want us to be in a pool room that really wants us to be there and is excited about the event. I have plenty of options so why would I put us in a negative position ya know?

Oh, and please know that I'm not against you, just giving a differing look at it. Personally, if it was my room, I surely wouldn't charge anything. Like someone else said in another post, in any other sport they would have to be paying you to have people of that calibre in their room. Earl and Johnny are to the pool world what Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are to basketball.
MULLY
and if you ever take this thing international let me know. I know a few rooms here that would kill to have them come in.

 

[ShootingArts]

hmmm

I do an interview process before I make any offers r tell them why I am calling. Like how many tables do you have? what size? do hold leagues there? do you hold regular tounaments? would you say your clients and regualars are pool and billiards enthusiasts? If it sems like a good place that has the right people and equipment then I go on. This guy has all the clients and should do something to say thankyou even if breaks even on the deal JMHO

Nobody called one of my businesses and started a quiz game. The guy might be a loser on this deal but your approach might well be part of the problem. When folks call me on the phone and start asking questions I explain that I am the one that asks questions. If they have a problem with that I hang up. A business gets tons of BS phone calls a week. When you sound like one more you can expect to get a negative reaction from people that are fed up with all the BS calls. That isn't saying yours was a BS call but it is up to you to make plain from the jump that it isn't one if it isn't practical for you to actually visit a hall.

You lost, the room lost. I'd recommend at least reconsidering your approach. The first thing a busy person wants to know is who you are and what is your business. No sense wasting time answering all of your qualifying questions if they aren't interested. Your time or theirs.

Hu(a business owner most of the time since 1970, ran one since 68)

 

[jimmy-leggs]

C'mon people,EARL Kramso and JOHNNY Patterson..........who the hell are they? I dont blame him.

 

[Russ Chewning]

bfdlad,

I second Hu. No need to "pre-qualify" these rooms. Just do your "pitch", and if the room owner buys it, THEN you can discuss specifics. Remember, depending on his clientele, this may not be a moneymaker for him.

I know we'd all like to believe that it definitely would be, but that's just not the way things are. I know of at least 3 halls in my hometown, and only ONE of them would have a prayer of pulling more than 10 people for this sort of deal. Yes, I would be one of the ten. So would instroke75 if he was not working. Three or four more people that I know of, and beyond that, you'd get a few that come in to check out what a world champion looks like.

Most of these business' customers are the "work 9-5..Catch a beer on the way home with work buddies, then go home and have dinner" crowd. Either that, or the "I'm 21-30, I'm horny, and I just wanna get laid crowd".

Just do your pitch, and expect 50% of the room owners to shoot you down immediately. Rejection of a certain percentage is a part of sales. If you get self righteous and offended about it, you are just gonna make yourself miserable.

Russ

 

[bfdlad]

Nobody called one of my businesses and started a quiz game. The guy might be a loser on this deal but your approach might well be part of the problem. When folks call me on the phone and start asking questions I explain that I am the one that asks questions. If they have a problem with that I hang up. A business gets tons of BS phone calls a week. When you sound like one more you can expect to get a negative reaction from people that are fed up with all the BS calls. That isn't saying yours was a BS call but it is up to you to make plain from the jump that it isn't one if it isn't practical for you to actually visit a hall.

You lost, the room lost. I'd recommend at least reconsidering your approach. The first thing a busy person wants to know is who you are and what is your business. No sense wasting time answering all of your qualifying questions if they aren't interested. Your time or theirs.

Hu(a business owner most of the time since 1970, ran one since 68)

I can understand your point. However, I do it a little more tactfully that just an interogation I am just a potential client asking a couple of questions. Noibody has had a problem with the approach, I know the way I explained it sounded like I called and hit them with it. Thats not the case though just fyi

 

[bfdlad]

bfdlad,

I second Hu. No need to "pre-qualify" these rooms. Just do your "pitch", and if the room owner buys it, THEN you can discuss specifics. Remember, depending on his clientele, this may not be a moneymaker for him.

I know we'd all like to believe that it definitely would be, but that's just not the way things are. I know of at least 3 halls in my hometown, and only ONE of them would have a prayer of pulling more than 10 people for this sort of deal. Yes, I would be one of the ten. So would instroke75 if he was not working. Three or four more people that I know of, and beyond that, you'd get a few that come in to check out what a world champion looks like.

Most of these business' customers are the "work 9-5..Catch a beer on the way home with work buddies, then go home and have dinner" crowd. Either that, or the "I'm 21-30, I'm horny, and I just wanna get laid crowd".

Just do your pitch, and expect 50% of the room owners to shoot you down immediately. Rejection of a certain percentage is a part of sales. If you get self righteous and offended about it, you are just gonna make yourself miserable.

Russ

Honest, it's not like that at all. Like I said just before, I can understand how I made it sound but really I am not that dopey. The thing is as was said, If I go straight to the nuts and bolts without knowing anything about the room it is a big waste of my time. I have said thankyou and hung up from quite a few rooms that I have spoken to due to the size of thew tables they have alone. Earl can't do most of his trick shots and stroke shots on anything but a 9fter. Look up pool rooms in any town or city and in there will be a local bar that has 1 bar box and thats it no league otr tourney. I don't know this without asking. The idea of selling this guy on the pool school and he buys it just to find he has one table is not my way.

 

[smashmouth]

well if he says he already lost money with Varner, what makes you think you know better than him?

I can tell you that I know of a room years ago that either lost money or barely broke even with Jim Rempe

 

[satman]

You think????

I read the post above several times, and can see the room owners asking "whats in it for me?" I can also understand him saying "no way".

As it is his Room, and maybe he doesn't need Earl & Johnny there.

Because business is booming with out them.

I don't care if business is booming, and you have them waiting in line. Every new person who walks thru your door, is a possible repeat customer. If the fact that these 2 guys might bring 50 people in the door that have never been there before, does not interest this guy, he must be set for life. Or he's a very poor business man.
Even if it only brings 2 new people thru the door, it will have all his regulars talking to friends about what they seen, and the pro's they got to talk to. Don't matter how busy you are today, it's the future that counts. Word of mouth is the very best advertising there is.

 

[ShootingArts]

communication can be tough

I can understand your point. However, I do it a little more tactfully that just an interogation I am just a potential client asking a couple of questions. Noibody has had a problem with the approach, I know the way I explained it sounded like I called and hit them with it. Thats not the case though just fyi

Communication can be tough, on the net and on the phone. Sometimes a busy man simply isn't dealing with anything that he doesn't have to. I used to have people calling to sell me anything from ink pens to oil wells and many more calling with an idea that was going to work wonders for my business. Business owners are often a jaded bunch. Pretty soon you will find it amazing when someone gets excited about laying out hard cash up front for a possible return in the future. I have never had a one shot deal have any significant impact on my long term cash flow. Having Johnny and Earl in a place might be a thrill for the hardcore pool fans including the owner if he is one however I would bet that the same outlay doled out judiciously in free or discounted table time and a few free beers will get him more repeat business.

I wish you, Johnny, and Earl every success. However being amazed when a businessman isn't interested in your promotion is what is amazing to me. If I was rolling pretty good in a room I would welcome you. If money was tight I would not send my dollars or my customer's dollars down the road. Some see that as short sighted, I see it as hardnosed business and my businesses have survived and even thrived when others just like them were dying all around.

Hu

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Bruce, I try to scrape a megar living out of the pool and billiards industry, what makes you think for one second that I am not already crazy???

Pool is a tough way to make a buck,

and i will still defend the owner who said NO. As only they know the ins and outs of their individual business.

Have a neighbor who I see almost daily who had in his business career (3) different Pool Room/Pool Bars.

He tells stories of the good, and bad of his business. Like the guy who told of making money off of the Grady Event, and the guy who told of the guy who lost his butt on the Dr. cue event.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

There are always two sides to the coin. I totally understand what everyone here is saying. But let me show you the 'other side'.

Everyone on here knows Earl and Johnny like a household name. As someone mentioned, you would be amazed at the amount of people that play pool that have no inkling who they are. And just telling them that they are both world champions means diddly squat, because they don't follow pool at all.

We have two rooms in town that have 9' tables. Both owned by the same guy. Several years ago, in the 'drinking' room, they had an exhibition with Dr. Cue Tom Rossman. It was well advertised. About twenty or thirty people showed up. And we ALL enjoyed it. The room lost their butt. Two years later, they held it again. Advertised it good. Those of us that saw the first one spread the word. About 6 people showed. No, that's not a typo. SIX people! Room lost their butt and legs that time.

Until the league players start to follow pool, a LOT of rooms will lose big time on these deals. A lot of rooms are just hanging on now. They aren't about to spend thousands for the sake of pro pool players to be able to make an income when they won't get any of it back themselves.

I can see the room making an eventual profit if some pros already frequent the area, and people are familiar with pro pool. But if the locals aren't familiar with pro pool, it is a big time loosing proposition.

 

[jay helfert]

When I make a request of anyone, they have the right to say NO. That's the bottom line. Otherwise I am not making a request, I'm making a demand. Big difference. What I like to say to someone when I am requesting something from them is this. You have the right to say yes or no, just hear me out.

Now, I may try to sell them on my proposition, but I am NEVER mad if they turn me down for any reason. That's just the name of the game when it comes to promoting anything. You will always get more turn downs then acceptances. After all, you usually are cold calling them.

For every tournament I have produced in casinos, twenty turned me down. I have sent more proposals to more casinos then I care to think about. I don't even want to tell you how many places I have flown to visit (on my dime), and had meetings at, and still got turned down. Goes with the territory.

 

[SCCues]

I'd let them have any and every table in my room, because the place will be packed, and if you serve drinks and food you would make a killing.

I agree and it's hard to believe that a pool room owner doesn't realize the impact of having Johnny and Earl in his room. His pool room would be full of spectators and players unless they are out of touch with pool in his area.

There's a room where I live that's 90% APA pool league and I doubt that many of the league players have a clue about the pro players. The owner of that room's opinion of pool is pool is just an excuse for people to get out and drink! That should tell you the type of thinking that the pool room owner has who didn't want to give up the pool table time for Johnny and Earl. I'd be surprised if they'd do it here where I live either and I hate to say it because it's a sad situation when a pool room owner won't give a little for 2 of the best pool players in history!

James

 

[stick8]

table time

On the other hand, for what people are being charged for this pool school, and I'm sure you're not doing it for free, would it kill you to pay 5 or 6 bucks an hour on 4 tables for 4 hours?
MULLY
just an opposite look at the situation

i as a room owner agree with you, as i have had yow the trick shoot , a magic show with great guy from fla. and did not charge for you to watch. but if it is a pool school, they should be charged a % for the time!!!

 

[gulfportdoc]

I mean lets just say that you are a pool room owner and all I am asking is free table time for Johnny and Earl to do a pool school and Exhibition in your room would you think that was a losing deal?? I just don't get it, maybe it's just me.

If that's the only financial commitment, then it does seem ridiculous that the average poolroom wouldn't want to feature those two champions.

Yet, being a small buisiness owner myself, I'm inclined to agree with some of Hu's points. I'm so wary of getting "pitched", that 95% of sales calls I receive are cut short before the salesman even gets his spiel out.

I am curious though if you suggest to the owners how they can advertise a potential event with E & J-- whether they should put up posters, newspaper or other media ads?

My guess is that the average small to medium sized room would see no profit potential in one of these events. For example, my local room has thirteen 9-foot tables and 10 BBs, but I doubt that there would be a geat deal of interest in the event. On the other hand, the owner might see it either as offering a "free exhibition", or as an inducement to beginners to take more interest in the game. And he CERTAINLY wouldn't sweat a one-time loss of 4 table's rental for 4 hours!!

Good luck to you~

Doc

 

[Rick S.]

Now this is officially a thread. We have Coco's .5 cent.

BVal

Make that 2 cents.......(he's holding on to the other three)

 

[Pushout]

I agree and it's hard to believe that a pool room owner doesn't realize the impact of having Johnny and Earl in his room. His pool room would be full of spectators and players unless they are out of touch with pool in his area.

There's a room where I live that's 90% APA pool league and I doubt that many of the league players have a clue about the pro players. The owner of that room's opinion of pool is pool is just an excuse for people to get out and drink! That should tell you the type of thinking that the pool room owner has who didn't want to give up the pool table time for Johnny and Earl. I'd be surprised if they'd do it here where I live either and I hate to say it because it's a sad situation when a pool room owner won't give a little for 2 of the best pool players in history!

James

Sadly, I have to say it's pretty much the same where I am. The local room owner might know the names and some of his customers might have heard of them. A lot, and I do mean a lot, of people in this area have heard of Minnesota Fats but not Willie Mosconi or any of the current crop of pro players. And they don't care.

 

[scottjen26]

I've seen that type of response in some local rooms here as well. If you were running a golf course, or a driving range, do you tell Tiger or Phil not to stop by because it would take away from business? If you love the game and appreciate why you are in business in the first place, the answer is emphatically NO. As another poster said, let these "soon to be closed" rooms be, and find someone who is truly interested. It will make the experience better for all.

 

[ScottW]

I've seen that type of response in some local rooms here as well. If you were running a golf course, or a driving range, do you tell Tiger or Phil not to stop by because it would take away from business? If you love the game and appreciate why you are in business in the first place, the answer is emphatically NO. As another poster said, let these "soon to be closed" rooms be, and find someone who is truly interested. It will make the experience better for all.

Who said this one particular room owner loves the game?

It could well be just a business to him, a way to make a living for him and his family.

Any business owner worth his salt is going to consider the bottom line first and foremost when it comes to decisions like this. He or she has to, else they won't be in business very long.

Take the golf analogy you brought up:

What if, having Tiger and Phil to his course for a day, meant that he had to shut down his course to paying customers for that day? And what if, after they were gone, his business did not improve? He's out a day's income with nothing to show for it other than warm fuzzies from some of his regular customers.