I just was given a response that amazed me.

[CocoboloCowboy]

What you failed to mention was the Pool Clinic earlier in the day that Nick conducted. It was a rousing sucess, with quite a few participants. Which got a good part of the $$$ back.

Bob, and John (Main St owners) aren't worried about making money on every event. They try to please the customers by doing this sort of thing.

Earl did an exhibiton at Main St. last month while he was here. Main St. charged absolutely nothing. Main St. paid the full expense out of pocket.

Not everyone is cheap...


Rick S.

As I recall from was it 3 Christmas's ago (2005) what was promoted in the (PHOENIX AREA) in the Main Street in Mesa, AZ advertisement in the Old Arizona Billiards News was only a demo in Mesa in the PM hours.

I do recall Nick Varner did having some Nick V. Cues for sale, but when I left for the West Valley at the end of the DEMO, I do not recall any Cues being sold.

If there was a Clinic maybe it was in Tucson, at Main street in Tucson, AZ over 100 miles away from the West Valley.

 

[TSW]

It's interesting that nearly everyone supporting the room is a business owner, and nearly everyone criticizing the room isn't. It's easy to talk about all the free promos you'd run if you ran the place, but it's a lot harder when that money comes out of your pocket for an uncertain return.

 

[Blackjack]

It's interesting that nearly everyone supporting the room is a business owner, and nearly everyone criticizing the room isn't. It's easy to talk about all the free promos you'd run if you ran the place, but it's a lot harder when that money comes out of your pocket for an uncertain return.

I'm a former room owner. In the past I have owned and operated 3 different rooms. I am saying this room owner just lost an opportunity to bring people into his business. Plain and simple.

You either recognize an opportunity and take it, or it slips through your hands and goes to somebody else. That is all that will happen here.

I have talked to many room owners that have lost their ass on events like this - but I have also talked to room owners that have made it a success. It all depends on your attitude, your intelligence, and what kind of impression you will make on first time patrons that will enter the room that night.

I suggest for any room owner to sell raffle tickets - raffling off cues, free table time, a $50 bar tab, whatever it takes to make up the losses. Sell the tickets 10 for $10 - no exceptions. You'll make it up real quick.

Don't tell me that it can't be done. Marissa and I raised over $700 in 2 nights at Disney (an EXPENSIVE tournament venue) by selling raffle tickets to raffle off cues and other items. You just have to know how to brainstorm to make up the money.

 

[memikey]

There's still seems to be some in this thread who don't realise that this isn't just an issue of the owner giving up free table time and not getting any cut of the pool school fees paid by any who sign up for it.

Bfdlad fully intended to eventually get down to the real nitty gritty with the room owner i.e how many hundreds/thousands the room owner would have to pay up front towards the exhibition fee/expenses, but was cut short by the owner at that point so never got that far.

One possibility that has not been specifically discussed or considered so far is that perhaps the owner knew very well early in the conversation that bfdlad was on a build up spiel towards the bigger issue of the exhibition fee etc and already knew from past experience that he had no interest in going down that speculative route (he had had exhibitions before remember). No offence intended bfdlad but I think many of the people on here capable of running a business would have known instantly that there was an exhibition fee coming a little later into a conversation which started the way yours did. He therefore may have simply decided to slam the door on the idea early and not waste his own or your time and it might be just a little over-presumptious to assume that the sole reason in his mind at that time was table time and table time only.

Commercially he might have been right to take that immediate intransigent and dismissive decision on the proposition or he might have been wrong, but what is certain is that even in the apparent nanosecond he spent considering it, he would still have been in a much better position to judge its suitability to the circumstances of his room than anyone posting on here, as Hu and a couple of others have rightly hinted. He's clearly soured on exhibitions and it's doubtful that even if bfdlad could produce a reincarnated Fats playing Mosconi that he would have had any interest.

Before we all get carried away with what is perceived by some to be short sightedness on the part of this particular room owner we should remember that for every fairy tale success story of pool exhibitions worldwide there's quite probably a dozen or more nightmares that could be recounted by room owners and others involved.

Good luck with the tour bfdlad.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I am not sure if this is just mne or if the man I just spoke to is crazy.
As most of you know I am putting together the Legends and Champions tour with Johnny Archer and Earl Strickland. I was given a pool room name and number that may be interested as they go to that room and said it was nice.
I called and got to speak to the owner and told him that we would be doing a pool school in the afternoon and an exhibition in the evening. He asked "whats in it for me?" then "what do you want from me?" I began to explain, "we will need the use of 4 of your tables at no charge" that is as far as I got, he said "no way, I will lose $$$ in table time if I let Johnny and Earl take then over for a few hours" I asked, "Do you know who they are??" he said yes but he wasn't going to lose that table time.
I mean lets just say that you are a pool room owner and all I am asking is free table time for Johnny and Earl to do a pool school and Exhibition in your room would you think that was a losing deal?? I just don't get it, maybe it's just me.

as long as he offers drinks and some kind of food he should make up what he lost in table time selling food and what not to all the people watching

 

[metallicane]

If it was in my area, I would just pay him his table time just to watch those guys play. 4 tables for 4 hours couldn't be that much. I say wow.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

It's interesting that nearly everyone supporting the room is a business owner, and nearly everyone criticizing the room isn't. It's easy to talk about all the free promos you'd run if you ran the place, but it's a lot harder when that money comes out of your pocket for an uncertain return.

I do not care what kind of a business you have someone is always want something from you. I am sure Rick the Photographer is constantly asked for a ?PRINT? like I was when I was a Freelance News photographer. Hell it is only a print, and cost you nothing, HAHA.

My Ex was the Managing Partners Secretary for a Big Professional Business Firm. She would get 10-20 phone call a month asking for donations of FREE TIME, to Money for Uniforms for a Little League Team.

She had the BEST ways to deal with the people on the other end of the telephone, most of who were total stranger, not clients, but knew this ?FIRM? was billing big bucks annually.

He reply was simple. She would tell those asking for anything to please submit a written proposal to Mr. B. her boss, and he would review the request. Than she would offer the correct spelling of Mr. B?s last name, and the firm mailing address. Few requests came in the mail.

The Partners, and Manager in this Firm were charitable, but like all in business had to work within their charitable budget annually.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I do not care what kind of a business you have someone is always want something from you. I am sure Rick the Photographer is constantly asked for a ?PRINT? like I was when I was a Freelance News photographer. Hell it is only a print, and cost you nothing, HAHA.

My Ex was the Managing Partners Secretary for a Big Professional Business Firm. She would get 10-20 phone call a month asking for donations of FREE TIME, to Money for Uniforms for a Little League Team.

She had the BEST ways to deal with the people on the other end of the telephone, most of who were total stranger, not clients, but knew this ?FIRM? was billing big bucks annually.

He reply was simple. She would tell those asking for anything to please submit a written proposal to Mr. B. her boss, and he would review the request. Than she would offer the correct spelling of Mr. B?s last name, and the firm mailing address. Few requests came in the mail.

The Partners, and Manager in this Firm were charitable, but like all in business had to work within their charitable budget annually.

The situation you describe is of people (that probably are not supporting that business) asking that business to sponsor or support them.

In the case of the Poolroom I think it is a little different.

I am pretty sure it was you that came on here saying how everyone should boycott Beer until they "give something for free" to the pool tournaments (players in the tournaments)

If that is the case...why would you not be on your soapbox for the same reason??? It seems to me that Pool Rooms make money off of Pool Players... It is those Pool Players that will want to see the Exhibition.....So based on your boycott of Beer Idea ...Why wouldn't you be saying..."Boycott the Pool Room until they sponsor the exhibition"?????

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I personally look at it from a different slant.....You may make a little or lose a little money on that night of the exhibition......But the draw of the non-regulars to your room is an opportunity to show off and sell your establishment and its services...for hopefully a future customer base......and I would imagine that the actual costs would be tax deductable at the end of the year.

If I were a room owner...I would treat the exhibition costs (if there even are any) the same as I would the cost to run an ad in the paper or whatever other marketing you purchase.....

I would imagine that a large marjority of pool rooms, bars, etc need some form of on-going marketing plan.

Interestingly......In my area...Kolby's ,Alexanders and Main Street are the rooms that typically do exhibitions and have on-going "marketing"......strangly they are also the most common word of mouth names mentioned when someone asks where to play pool in this town.

 

[bfdlad]

The situation you describe is of people (that probably are not supporting that business) asking that business to sponsor or support them.

In the case of the Poolroom I think it is a little different.

I am pretty sure it was you that came on here saying how everyone should boycott Beer until they "give something for free" to the pool tournaments (players in the tournaments)

If that is the case...why would you not be on your soapbox for the same reason??? It seems to me that Pool Rooms make money off of Pool Players... It is those Pool Players that will want to see the Exhibition.....So based on your boycott of Beer Idea ...Why wouldn't you be saying..."Boycott the Pool Room until they sponsor the exhibition"?????

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I personally look at it from a different slant.....You may make a little or lose a little money on that night of the exhibition......But the draw of the non-regulars to your room is an opportunity to show off and sell your establishment and its services...for hopefully a future customer base......and I would imagine that the actual costs would be tax deductable at the end of the year.

If I were a room owner...I would treat the exhibition costs (if there even are any) the same as I would the cost to run an ad in the paper or whatever other marketing you purchase.....

I would imagine that a large marjority of pool rooms, bars, etc need some form of on-going marketing plan.

Interestingly......In my area...Kolby's ,Alexanders and Main Street are the rooms that typically do exhibitions and have on-going "marketing"......strangly they are also the most common word of mouth names mentioned when someone asks where to play pool in this town.

Hey Bruce BRk has a valid point there about the beer boycott, Also about the cost of ads in magazines flyers etc and the cost of the exhibition, also correct about what has happened with the other rooms especially Kolbys. The owners of Koblys and myself sat doew about a year ago and they told me that they wanted to be on the map and when someone asked about pool in AZ there name would be there. They also knew it would cost and be a pain in the but at times but they were willing to sacrifice that. Now they are busy all the time and every top pro player has been there for one reason or another. They have held challenge matches, Exhibitions, pool schools with names like Morris, Reyes Strickland, Crosby, Archer and not to forget Frost. These were all events that were not tied to any tournament. They have seen alot more biz as a result and when people come from out of town thye look for Kolbys. I believe that this is what will keep a room open and making $$. OS the vision thta the owners of Kolbys had has worked for them and for the future. All these top pros coming into their establshment has probably cost them around $4,000.00 out of pocket $$ and they did it right and got local sponsors to help out so the full $4k was not all on them and they had between 150 and 275 people at each event that they took a piece of the gate for and then the food and drink. So for all the attention they have received you do the math and tell me if they lost $$. It really is a matter of getting the locals who have their own biz or vendors involved. I'll bet they eneded up breaking even on the cost and then had a few awesome nights of sales along with the marketing aspect that has worked VERY well for them. If some one is just looking to turn a buck or two right away with only that in mind then this is not going to work but if you are looking at 6 to 8 months away and are prepared to stick with it then it will work just fine in my honest opinion,

 

[Fast Lenny]

Hey Mark,perhaps it was your accent,some people who are ignorant will think automatically your a shyster,haha,just kidding brother.

 

[bfdlad]

Hey Mark,perhaps it was your accent,some people who are ignorant will think automatically your a shyster,haha,just kidding brother.

LOL, that could be and thats profiling or somthing. There are people who have something against skin color, race, religion, accents and in your case just plain ugly, You may have some insight on the problems that ugly people have when doing business and how your kind are treated.

 

[Fast Lenny]

LOL, that could be and thats profiling or somthing. There are people who have something against skin color, race, religion, accents and in your case just plain ugly, You may have some insight on the problems that ugly people have when doing business and how your kind are treated.

ROFLMAO!Well I dont look too shabby for being in about 100 fights,20 car accidents having 2000 stitches in my head and face.For being ugly and broke most of the time I have managed to make the biggest score of my life despite all of it because Im sharp and smooth.You were right when you said the girl sounded like a hottie who answered my phone,eat your heart out Marky Boy.

 

[bfdlad]

ROFLMAO!Well I dont look too shabby for being in about 100 fights,20 car accidents having 2000 stitches in my head and face.For being ugly and broke most of the time I have managed to make the biggest score of my life despite all of it because Im sharp and smooth.You were right when you said the girl sounded like a hottie who answered my phone,eat your heart out Marky Boy.

You are a lucky man, So how did you do the copy and paste to get her look like she is actually with you in your trailer? There is NO WAY a woman who looks like that is coming close to you. Actually she looks like a real nice gal, good job. My wife is 400lbs and has a face like a bulldog Chewing a wasp. So I admire what ever talent it is thaty have hidden,

I'm off to NM early in the AM I will let you know how it goes. Take care man,

 

[Fast Lenny]

You are a lucky man, So how did you do the copy and paste to get her look like she is actually with you in your trailer? There is NO WAY a woman who looks like that is coming close to you. Actually she looks like a real nice gal, good job. My wife is 400lbs and has a face like a bulldog Chewing a wasp. So I admire what ever talent it is thaty have hidden,

I'm off to NM early in the AM I will let you know how it goes. Take care man,

I tell you brother its all charisma and using your noggin,haha.Well good luck in New Mexico and you better start talking like a cowboy with alittle twang and a cowboy hat if you want to make out in these parts. Here is a picture from our wedding before we had massive plastic surgeries and got our new home,the dog was actually my first born,isnt he cute?

 

[Fast Lenny]

Hey Mark,why dont you make this picture your avatar and show everyone your physique?

 

[scottp]

Yep, unfortunatley we have to try am make some $$ while we are on the road. The room may make some $$ on the deal, if they can talk to some of ther clients who own businesses and ask for sponsorship support and talk to their vendors that they do business with, the event can be covered very easily, then they have a room full of people buys their food, drinks and lets not forget the cover charge. The room CAN make $$ if the ydo it right. Worst case is they break even and as Neil said if the room is doing well it is a good way to show customer appreciation.

so just what is the total cost to the room? real cost cash wise.....
when you started this thread it was just table time,now i see sponsers needed etc..
i dont mean to be negative but i would like the whole story.....
scott

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I am pretty sure it was you that came on here saying how everyone should boycott Beer until they "give something for free" to the pool tournaments (players in the tournaments)

If that is the case...why would you not be on your soapbox for the same reason??? It seems to me that Pool Rooms make money off of Pool Players... It is those Pool Players that will want to see the Exhibition.....So based on your boycott of Beer Idea ...Why wouldn't you be saying..."Boycott the Pool Room until they sponsor the exhibition"?????

The Boycott IDEA was aimed at Anheisher-Bush that products are in ALMOST ever Pool Room/Pool Bar, and I see little support of Pool by the Anheisher-Bush in the Valley of the Sun.

Interestingly......In my area...Kolby's ,Alexanders and Main Street are the rooms that typically do exhibitions and have on-going "marketing"......strangly they are also the most common word of mouth names mentioned when someone asks where to play pool in this town.

Add to that METRO SPORTS BAR but I have never seen or head of an exhibitions at Metro Sports Bar.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Hey Bruce BRk has a valid point there about the beer boycott, Also about the cost of ads in magazines flyers etc and the cost of the exhibition, also correct about what has happened with the other rooms especially Kolbys. The owners of Koblys and myself sat doew about a year ago and they told me that they wanted to be on the map and when someone asked about pool in AZ there name would be there. They also knew it would cost and be a pain in the but at times but they were willing to sacrifice that. Now they are busy all the time and every top pro player has been there for one reason or another. They have held challenge matches, Exhibitions, pool schools with names like Morris, Reyes Strickland, Crosby, Archer and not to forget Frost. These were all events that were not tied to any tournament. They have seen alot more biz as a result and when people come from out of town thye look for Kolbys. I believe that this is what will keep a room open and making $$. OS the vision thta the owners of Kolbys had has worked for them and for the future. All these top pros coming into their establshment has probably cost them around $4,000.00 out of pocket $$ and they did it right and got local sponsors to help out so the full $4k was not all on them and they had between 150 and 275 people at each event that they took a piece of the gate for and then the food and drink. So for all the attention they have received you do the math and tell me if they lost $$. It really is a matter of getting the locals who have their own biz or vendors involved. I'll bet they eneded up breaking even on the cost and then had a few awesome nights of sales along with the marketing aspect that has worked VERY well for them. If some one is just looking to turn a buck or two right away with only that in mind then this is not going to work but if you are looking at 6 to 8 months away and are prepared to stick with it then it will work just fine in my honest opinion,

As I said I see Anheisher-Bush Products in ever Bar/Sports Bar/Pool room, and see Anheisher-bush doing little if anything in the Valley of the Sun to PROMOTE or SUPPORT POOL.

 

[Jaden]

Normally I would agree with you....

Communication can be tough, on the net and on the phone. Sometimes a busy man simply isn't dealing with anything that he doesn't have to. I used to have people calling to sell me anything from ink pens to oil wells and many more calling with an idea that was going to work wonders for my business. Business owners are often a jaded bunch. Pretty soon you will find it amazing when someone gets excited about laying out hard cash up front for a possible return in the future. I have never had a one shot deal have any significant impact on my long term cash flow. Having Johnny and Earl in a place might be a thrill for the hardcore pool fans including the owner if he is one however I would bet that the same outlay doled out judiciously in free or discounted table time and a few free beers will get him more repeat business.
I wish you, Johnny, and Earl every success. However being amazed when a businessman isn't interested in your promotion is what is amazing to me. If I was rolling pretty good in a room I would welcome you. If money was tight I would not send my dollars or my customer's dollars down the road. Some see that as short sighted, I see it as hardnosed business and my businesses have survived and even thrived when others just like them were dying all around.

Hu

Ok let's do some math here. If you have to give up four tables for four hours. Let's say the maximum you can make on those four tables is 8 dollars an hour, ok. That would be $32 an hour x 4 hours would be $128 dollars. That is a best case scenario for the room owner. In all actuality it is unlikely he would lose any of that money if it's being done between 11:00-3:00 because I have rarely seen poolhalls even half filled during those hours. So if he dismissed it out of hand without even qualifying how it would go down or when etc..., I don't care what his clientele is, that is bad business.

Ok so if it brings in even 10 people, you can expect that atleast half of those people would want to get lunch during that time frame, so you can expect atleast half of the money to be returned immediately with ten people showing up, if you also get the hard core players in your room aware of what will be going down and get them to try adn bring in people, (a little advertising with some flyers etc.) it costs you another ten dollars in printing costs, or you can ask for flyers to be provided by the guy holding it, if you get 30 people in there that wouldn't have been there on that day you can expect several things, one not only the recoup of the lost table time, but you can expect a profit just from food and beverage sales and then players will want to play or practice some of watching or participating in the event, Hell, you can even hold a tournament the night of after the exhibitionand get the people to stay even longer.

The questions I would have as a business owner given the prospect of this are; what time of day and what day of the week would you be planning this? Are you going to be charging the clientele for this exhibition/pool school and or for just the pool school but the exhibitions will be open to anyone? What order will they be given in? Could we possibly work something out so that you give the clientele a chance to play a game with them or set aside some time for the clientele to pay 5 or 10 a game to "play a champion" and have some of that money go to the house?

The thing here is that not qualifying what would be going down and or negotiating a chance like this is just bad business regardless of where you are. One problem with a lot of poolrooms is that the owners aren't necesarily good business men. They either just have a love for pool or want a bar and use pool tables to give their patrons something to do.

There's my .02 cents

 

[memikey]

Ok let's do some math here. If you have to give up four tables for four hours. Let's say the maximum you can make on those four tables is 8 dollars an hour, ok. That would be $32 an hour x 4 hours would be $128 dollars. That is a best case scenario for the room owner. In all actuality it is unlikely he would lose any of that money if it's being done between 11:00-3:00 because I have rarely seen poolhalls even half filled during those hours. So if he dismissed it out of hand without even qualifying how it would go down or when etc..., I don't care what his clientele is, that is bad business.

Ok so if it brings in even 10 people, you can expect that atleast half of those people would want to get lunch during that time frame, so you can expect atleast half of the money to be returned immediately with ten people showing up, if you also get the hard core players in your room aware of what will be going down and get them to try adn bring in people, (a little advertising with some flyers etc.) it costs you another ten dollars in printing costs, or you can ask for flyers to be provided by the guy holding it, if you get 30 people in there that wouldn't have been there on that day you can expect several things, one not only the recoup of the lost table time, but you can expect a profit just from food and beverage sales and then players will want to play or practice some of watching or participating in the event, Hell, you can even hold a tournament the night of after the exhibitionand get the people to stay even longer.

The questions I would have as a business owner given the prospect of this are; what time of day and what day of the week would you be planning this? Are you going to be charging the clientele for this exhibition/pool school and or for just the pool school but the exhibitions will be open to anyone? What order will they be given in? Could we possibly work something out so that you give the clientele a chance to play a game with them or set aside some time for the clientele to pay 5 or 10 a game to "play a champion" and have some of that money go to the house?

The thing here is that not qualifying what would be going down and or negotiating a chance like this is just bad business regardless of where you are. One problem with a lot of poolrooms is that the owners aren't necesarily good business men. They either just have a love for pool or want a bar and use pool tables to give their patrons something to do.

There's my .02 cents

Jaden.......forget the maths on the table time, it's irrelevant. Bfdlad didn't do it intentionally but by the way he presented this scenario to the forum he may have unwittingly muddied the waters a little on how some posters are perceiving this incident.

Bfdlad was in the early stages of his "sell" when the subject of free table time for the afternoon pool school sessions came up, within a couple of minutes later he had the intention of putting a proposition to the owner that he (the owner) pays an up front sizeable a fee of several hundreds/thousands of dollars for the later evening "exhibition" services of the players. The owner would then have to work out how he could recoup that money and maybe even make a pofit, possibly with some assistance/ideas from bfdlad if he wanted his input.

Some posters on here seem to think that bfdlad may have considered simply using this room for the afternoon pool school sessions and nothing else. It's pretty clear that's not the case. Without the (paid by the owner) evening exhibition tacked on to the afternoon school sessions the proposed visit of these players would never happen, even if the owner was willing to give up the table time for free for the pool school sessions. I'm sure bfdlad would readily confirm that he would have had no interest whatsoever in the pro players doing only the pool school sessions on free tables and no exhibition later. That doesn't make bfdlad in any way a baddie, it's just business and in this case he seems to have come across a potential client who was simply not interested in any product that involves pro pool players.

This owner had previous experience of pro player visits and exhibitions (bad ones apparently). Any room owner with normal savvy would have known immediately the conversation began that there was more to the proposition than two very well known out of town pros just wanting some free table time to do some pool school sessions. He probably wasn't interested in anything at all that bfdlad and the pro pool players might have to offer so he closed down the conversation early, end of story. The table time is a bit of a red herring really. If that particular owner hadn't rejected bfdlad's proposition at that early point in the conversation it's obvious from his attitude that he certainly would have done so five minutes later when the exhibition fee finally came out in the open. The table time is more or less a non-issue in the wider picture.