I know nothing about cues - help me understand

cueman said:
He would only be able to tell you how to make the second best hitting cue in the world, as I didn't write everything I know in the book. :D :D :D
Just Kidding!
It was good talking to you yesterday.

I know Chris, that your book is not the encyclopedia on cue making.
But it is a very good start for someone that really wants to know what cue making is about and gain a basic understanding of how they are made and what equipment is used.
Ya gotta start somewhere and you provided a very good tool.

What we need now is a good book about the other half of cue making.
Finishing options and methods for the cue once it has been made.
 
WilleeCue said:
If you need more help you can find the correct spelling in the second edition of the Blue Book Of Pool Cues
WilleeCue said:
My cues are what they are and no amount of BS will make them anything else.

Yep your lil pat on the back and making sure that it is known that you are in the Blue Book of Pool Cues is nothing but BS to make them anything else?? You are right, I should be honored that you replied to my question & be willing to pay $15 a jar for a can of Ragu or $400 for a cue that was made by someone else. :bow-down: By the way, Delorean and the Edsel are in the NADA Bluebook of automobiles. You ought to buy one of those to drive around in.

I think when I come out with my cue line, I will call it Ragu Cues. Has a nice ring to it. Hope I don't get sued for copyright infringement - not by the Ragu sauce people but by Willee.
 
Genius

watchez said:
Yep your lil pat on the back and making sure that it is known that you are in the Blue Book of Pool Cues is nothing but BS to make them anything else?? You are right, I should be honored that you replied to my question & be willing to pay $15 a jar for a can of Ragu or $400 for a cue that was made by someone else. :bow-down: By the way, Delorean and the Edsel are in the NADA Bluebook of automobiles. You ought to buy one of those to drive around in.

I think when I come out with my cue line, I will call it Ragu Cues. Has a nice ring to it. Hope I don't get sued for copyright infringement - not by the Ragu sauce people but by Willee.

28 hours ago you knew nothing about cues, and now you're coming out with your own line.

....deleted
 
dchristal said:
28 hours ago you knew nothing about cues, and now you're coming out with your own line.

A fast study ... a common thing on the Internet.

Dave
 
watchez said:
No Dave - you need to work on your argument. Obviously a Master Chef doesn't have a garden out back, til the dirt, plant tomatoes from seed, water them, and then make his sauce. But he does not use Ragu out of a jar simply because he doesn't have the space to store a bunch of tomatoes or the time to make the sauce like a good italian mother does. No matter how good Ragu might taste. He wouldn't dare serve Ragu to his customers and charge them $25 a plate. Just like a cuemaker using a full splice and premade rings, butt caps, joints, etc. should not be charging the people the same.
I must say, I don't have an 'aurgument', my post was just my opinion, the aurgument seems to be on your side. There's no need for an aurgument or to be rude to someone like Willee, or anyone else for that matter. For someone that admits knowing nothing about cues, you do a great job of sounding like a self taught expert. If you honestly came in here to get an answer, it has been answered by some of the best people here, (myself not included in that statement), and you have my apologies, and can disregard the rest of this post. It seems though, you really came just to start a BS aurgument.
My father started making high end wood caskets at 18yr old, back around 1950, and has been involved with every aspect of wood craftsmanship his whole life. In woodworking, they measure tolerances in 1/32-1/16 of an inch and he is Baffled at how we can make cues like we do. In this field it's measured by the .0005 - .001 of an inch. So if you think your 8th grade experience and knowledge qualifies you, then spend some money, make some cues, then post pics for us 'Ragu' sellers, to admire. Your analogy to spagetti sauce and a master chef doesn't seem appropriate to compare with cuebuilding. For one, a "Master" Chef, 98% of the time works for someone else, that pays him an obscene amount of money, with a fully staffed, and equiped kitchen. where he is free to do as he pleases, at no expense to himself. Most Cue builders work a full daytime job, raise families, pay bills, cut the lawn, and build cues in their spare time, working out of their basement, or garage, and in some cases even their apartment. Most barely break even as it is, and have such a small space, they can barely fit the machines they do have, let alone have 2 machines tied up just to make fullsplice blanks. The prices that most of these builders charge are fair, sometimes even too low, considering the labor, materials, etc. even with using a blank. I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but this is pretty much the way it is. Qbuilder put it very well, I don't think it can't be explained any better than that. I apologize for this post coming across a little harsh, but I don't usually care for someone that admits he has no idea, but comes in throwing around a half-baked opinion and insults, and expects us to swallow it as truth.
Question was answered by many, no real need to drag it on....
Dave
 
dchristal said:
28 hours ago you knew nothing about cues, and now you're coming out with your own line.

....deleted

No sir- You are the Genius that you can't denote sarcasm. Even though I am willing to bet that I can top this beauty, even if you think that bright purple is a wonderful color.
101.jpg


Christal-please post a link to your website of cues. Sorry I haven't heard of you, the famous cuemaker from San Antonio. Are you in the bluebook of cues as well?

And Dave-why do you keep getting off subject. I could careless that most cuemakers (or cue part cuemakers) have other jobs and have to mow their lawn. I do too. Has nothing to do with my question of cuemakers making cues out of many parts that they didn't create themselves. I could careless how much time it takes. It takes 3 years plus to get a SW, they seem to be doing just fine.
 
watchez said:
so my questions are -

what is a blank? Does this mean the cue maker is not really 'making' the cue or the points? Is he using a house stick?

what is a real ebony fullsplice? does this have points 'pre made'

when a cuemaker talks about turned it to size, does that mean because a housestick is usually fatter than a normal playing cue?

how can I tell how my cue was made? and how many cuemakers use this technique?

Thanks for the responses (in advance).
watchez said:
Gee Willie, if I wanted to read an entire book than I guess I should just ask that this entire thread get deleted.

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks - and maybe even premade shafts.

I must be missing something. To me, a cuemaker using blanks 'because it takes to long to create' is like a chef using Ragu sauce out of a jar,

Seems like I could buy a premade blank, a premade shaft, some sand paper, some stain and have my own cue line that would be like many others. Someone tell me what I am missing in this thought process
I thought that this was the subject? You wanted to know what you were missing in the thought process, so that is my opinion as to what your missing, and it seems your missing more than that!
BTW, we'll be looking for that Ragu line in the near future......:D
Do you have a PhD in DAB? just curious...
 
jazznpool said:
Hey Watchez, Kevin Varney was being upfront (possibly too candid) about the problems that occur with using Dufferin or other pete or house cue type blanks. I've seen/ worked with the gaps and putty used in the cue blanks when helping to make sneaky petes from Dufferin and older Valley blanks or butts. Seperation of point wood from maple can occur even with better sneaky pete type blanks but I've seen much less of that with Schmelke made blanks (I rate them among the very best for pete type cues). It sounded to me that once Kevin saw the Dufferin blank wasn't going to work he began turning a better piece from another maker, quite possibly Schmelke. I respect that he wouldn't let a turd cue out of the shop. Very few makers bother to make full splice blanks without veneers. Although I have not played with a KV cue, his build quality looks real crisp. JMO, ICBW.

Martin
Thank you very much Martin, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.:)
 
Watchez, thanks for posting that photo.
It is Cobalt Blue not bright purple but I can understand as the photo does not do it justice.

I had almost forgot how nice my acrylic cues looked.
I think it is time to make another one but this time I think I will do it in emerald green.
I only make them every so often and they sell very quickly.
But they do make a big mess when cutting down the acrylic into the forearm and butt.
I think Frank Paradise was the first to try that material in a cue and being very dense it does have a very solid hit.
I even did a cue with the forearm cored with an acrylic rod to try to duplicate that solid hit in a wood cue.

If you think you can make a cue as nice or even better than this then you may have some talent for cue making.
If you decide to give it a try and need any help feel free to call me and I will help you with what I can.
I still recommend you get a copy of Chris Hightower's book and read thru it so you will know what you are getting into.

Thanks again for posting up that photo and feel free to post up any others from my rather humble web site.
Even the ones I am not so proud of are there.
The good, the bad, and the ugly can be found there.

BTW about a year or so ago I posted up a photo of what I thought was the ugliest cue ever made. Perhaps you cant top that one also.



101.jpg
 
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This is one of the most embarrassing threads I've read in some time. It's titled "I know nothing about cues - please help me understand". Yet over the course of the thread you haven't exhibited a single behavior that has illustrated that you really want help understanding. On the other hand...you have gone out of your way to show that you know nothing about cues...and worse...about the good people that make them. I know that the worst cue maker on the face of the Earth, makes a better cue than I can make...and I respect that. If it wasn't for the cuemaker...the game of pool simply wouldn't exist. This section of the forum was created so that cuemakers could share information with one another for the betterment of the profession, and provide people like you and I with the kind of information that gives us and idea of just what exactly goes into the cues we use to play a game we enjoy. This isn't the "Lambaste a cuemaker" section. Considering the overall tone of this tread...I think all the cuemakers that have responded have done so in a surprisningly level-headed fashion. I guess we'll have to wait for Dave Sutton to chime in. LOL
 
watchez said:
... Even though I am willing to bet that I can top this beauty .....

OOoooo, do I smell another first-time-cuebuilder-can-make-a-better-cue-than-you type challenge here ? That last one was fine entertainment for years.

If you do build a cue, please note that on the unofficial list of testers I am FIRST. I missed out trying the Jimbo-cue all those years ago, but not this time :wink:

Dave
 
watchez said:
Gee Willie, if I wanted to read an entire book than I guess I should just ask that this entire thread get deleted.

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks - and maybe even premade shafts.

I must be missing something. To me, a cuemaker using blanks 'because it takes to long to create' is like a chef using Ragu sauce out of a jar,

Seems like I could buy a premade blank, a premade shaft, some sand paper, some stain and have my own cue line that would be like many others. Someone tell me what I am missing in this thought process.

Here is one thing I think you are missing in your thought process since you admittedly know nothing about cues. These premade blanks have not been turned to size and you have to turn them down to your custom taper. Yes I said "CUSTOM taper" as it is your own taper. They are far too large to sand to size. They must be precision cut to size. So your above assumption will not work. You think it is easier than it is. They do not have rings on them so you have to install your own style of rings, joint pin, butt plate, weight bolt and bumper as well as applying finish. A final sanding size shaft blank is not ready to go either. You have to install joint, rings, tip and ferrule and sand it or cut and sand it to exact taper you like. Ragu sauce only needs heated up and I can understand since you know little about cue making you assumed producing a finished cue out of a blank was about as easy as heating a can of spagetti sauce, but it is much more complicated than that. You have to be capable of building a cue from scratch out of a single piece of wood to have the skills to make a cue out of a oversized blank. And to hold the points anywhere close to even, you have to be skilled beyond that point. So in my book Varney and anyone else using blanks are real cuemakers and deserve more respect than some of these threads have shown. Your term "PREMADE BLANK" is misleading as it is not premade. It is glued up and rough turned, not made ready to apply finish to and call a cue as "premade" would imply. There are cue kits and even guitar kits out there that people can assemble with almost no tooling, sand a little, stain and finish and call it their own cue or guitar. That is not what is happening here with a rough blank. But I do understand with your limited knowledge, why you thought so. Now if you want to pursue the "Ragu line" of cues here is the form to buy your blanks in: Everything turned to size with all parts glued on and ready for your finishing touches. That is a "Cue Kit." Varney does not use a cue kit. He simply uses a blank for one step in his cue making process on lower end cues.
 
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poolstixx said:
Ok take aside the maker or builder of the cue and you are interested in a playing cue that plays well. ...

Sorry but my dense head doesn't understand this ... why would I buy "custom" cues if I'm not taking maker or builder of the cue into consideration????
 
cueman said:
Here is one thing I think you are missing in your thought process since you admittedly know nothing about cues. These premade blanks have not been turned to size and you have to turn them down to your custom taper. Yes I said "CUSTOM taper" as it is your own taper. They are far too large to sand to size. They must be precision cut to size. So your above assumption will not work. You think it is easier than it is. They do not have rings on them so you have to install your own style of rings, joint pin, butt plate, weight bolt and bumper as well as applying finish. A final sanding size shaft blank is not ready to go either. You have to install joint, rings, tip and ferrule and sand it or cut and sand it to exact taper you like. Ragu sauce only needs heated up and I can understand since you know little about cue making you assumed producing a finished cue out of a blank was about as easy as heating a can of spagetti sauce, but it is much more complicated than that. You have to be capable of building a cue from scratch out of a single piece of wood to have the skills to make a cue out of a oversized blank. And to hold the points anywhere close to even, you have to be skilled beyond that point. So in my book Varney and anyone else using blanks are real cuemakers and deserve more respect than some of these threads have shown. Your term "PREMADE BLANK" is misleading as it is not premade. It is glued up and rough turned, not made ready to apply finish to and call a cue as "premade" would imply. There are cue kits and even guitar kits out there that people can assemble with almost no tooling, sand a little, stain and finish and call it their own cue or guitar. That is not what is happening here with a rough blank. But I do understand with your limited knowledge, why you thought so. Now if you want to pursue the "Ragu line" of cues here is the form to buy your blanks in: Everything turned to size with all parts glued on and ready for your finishing touches. That is a "Cue Kit." Varney does not use a cue kit. He simply uses a blank for one step in his cue making process on lower end cues.
TAP, TAP, TAP......Well stated Chris:thumbup:
 
I agree- Chris has explained it more tactfully and clearly than I could have.
One can never appreciate the issues of having everything "dead true" until they've spent a little time at it and suffered through it. The overwhelming majority of shops use high-accuracy metal lathes versus wood lathes to achieve this. You have to be more of a machinist than a woodturner.
Respectfully,
Beau
 
qbilder said:
Building a sneaky takes a lot of work to do correctly, even from a supplied blank. It's not like we get a blank that's ready for a shaft & finish. We have to take several cuts on the blank over long periods of time, just like any other wood. Rings, collars, shafts, etc. are still all made by the builder. He also does all the weighting & balancing & then finishing. Keeping the points even is another subject altogether. Point is, there's much more work than given credit or realized by somebody who has not done it themselves. Even with the work involved, the cues sell for less than plain jane models from the same builder simply because it's commonly accepted & expected in the pool playing world that sneakies should be cheap cues. They are not simply house cues cut in half anymore. So it's not really worth it for a builder to make his own blanks unless he's going to be building a whole lot of sneakies.


Personally, I think this is a damn shame!! Truth is, for the most part, there really is no such thing as a 'sneaky pete' anymore...it is an outdated term that really should be redefined.

The crafting of a full splice blank/cue, whether non-veneered or veneered, is an art form within the greater art form of cue making in general....it's my opinion anyway. I think the perception that it is less of a cue than a plain jane is just way off the mark.

For me, there is something in the simple elegance of a non-veneered full splice. Not to mention, I cannot think of a better way to showcase amazing pieces of wood than in this manner...although a plain jane comes in a close second. :) Also, I feel that it is this type cue that is the true 'heart and soul' of the game we have all come to love....it is a style that has seen a lot of history...it is a style that most every single one of us first approached a table with in our hands. It just deserves more respect than it often gets.

I just love a full splice cue!! I have owned/own custom crafted blank made ones, pre-made blank ones, and barstick conversion made ones...I love 'em all!! I have owned cues crafted from various construction methods, and just happen to like the way a well crafted full splice cue will 'talk' to you.

Of course, all of this is for naught if the shaft that is made for it is for crap. :yikes:

Lisa <=====thinks the 'simple' non-veneered full splice deserves more respect. :)
 
Originally Posted by jazznpool
Hey Watchez, Kevin Varney was being upfront (possibly too candid) about the problems that occur with using Dufferin or other pete or house cue type blanks. I've seen/ worked with the gaps and putty used in the cue blanks when helping to make sneaky petes from Dufferin and older Valley blanks or butts. Seperation of point wood from maple can occur even with better sneaky pete type blanks but I've seen much less of that with Schmelke made blanks (I rate them among the very best for pete type cues). It sounded to me that once Kevin saw the Dufferin blank wasn't going to work he began turning a better piece from another maker, quite possibly Schmelke. I respect that he wouldn't let a turd cue out of the shop. Very few makers bother to make full splice blanks without veneers. Although I have not played with a KV cue, his build quality looks real crisp. JMO, ICBW.

Martin

Thank you very much Martin, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
__________________
Play with a VARNEY or get beat by one!!!
.45acp...when you care enough to send the very best!!!
Cash ain't heavy...carry some!!!

In the time it took to read these posts and thank someone for taking up for you, you could have contacted a paying customer and eased their mind as to your largess. It is clear you have no respect for the people who choose you to build them a cue, once you have their money. What a shame you continue to reinforce the perception everyone who defends you has tried to explain away.
 
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watchez said:
Gee Willie, if I wanted to read an entire book than I guess I should just ask that this entire thread get deleted.

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks - and maybe even premade shafts.

I must be missing something. To me, a cuemaker using blanks 'because it takes to long to create' is like a chef using Ragu sauce out of a jar,

Seems like I could buy a premade blank, a premade shaft, some sand paper, some stain and have my own cue line that would be like many others. Someone tell me what I am missing in this thought process.

For a guy who started out saying "I know nothing about cues",
you seem to be pretty critical of people who do.

Dale<who knows something about trolls>
 
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