i must be doing SOMETHING wrong

BHQ

BHQ

we'll miss you
Silver Member
i've had this happen a few times
when using a 15/1000 black fiber ring, it looks more like a 30 after turning
i've got one right now, ring is against cocobolo on one side and against walnut on the other
the side of ring towards the softer walnut, almost looks like the color bleeds into the walnut???????
something to do with the epoxy maybe?????
i seal the ends of each component after facing, with super glue
what about wiping the black fiber rings with thinner first????
any thoughts would be appreciated
frustrating as hell
 
i think i understand what is happening.are you saying that the ring is expanding or bleeding.if it is expanding in size or folding over,are you turning it on a regular lathe?the same thing has happened to me before.the cutter on the lather just fold the fiber ring over to one side.i started useing the bigger collet on the lathe so i can still slide the cue out with the larger rings on and i cut it on the align-rite.
 
masonh said:
i think i understand what is happening.are you saying that the ring is expanding or bleeding.if it is expanding in size or folding over,are you turning it on a regular lathe?the same thing has happened to me before.the cutter on the lather just fold the fiber ring over to one side.i started useing the bigger collet on the lathe so i can still slide the cue out with the larger rings on and i cut it on the align-rite.
Click to expand...
i dont know which it is doing
maybe a little of both???????
my router is setup to cut from left to right, butt to joint
this particular ring is hedging towards the butt end, towards the softer walnut. opposite direction fron router cutting, so in this case, i dont think it's the router folding the ring over
i dont know, just very very frustrating
 
Have you sanded the cue yet? Back when I used to used those fiber rings I found two problems. First is that they swell when hot. So the epoxy drying causes them to swell a little, but not double. Also when cutting they give that fat look, but once sanded the appearance thins back up. The thing that I really hated with those fiber rings was that they swell over time in the cue and can pop through the finish. So I just went back to parting off phenolic for my thin rings.
 
cueman said:
Have you sanded the cue yet? Back when I used to used those fiber rings I found two problems. First is that they swell when hot. So the epoxy drying causes them to swell a little, but not double. Also when cutting they give that fat look, but once sanded the appearance thins back up. The thing that I really hated with those fiber rings was that they swell over time in the cue and can pop through the finish. So I just went back to parting off phenolic for my thin rings.
Click to expand...
yes it it sanded. that lessened the problem somewhat, but not enuff
you may have hit upon something there chris

about the heat swelling the fiber ?????
that epoxy does get hot when activated
is it possible to swell the ring, into the softer woods????
sure doesnt seem likely though, considering, i've got the rings and piece under pressure
you know, with the 1200 pound clamp , the lathe, LOL
 
Make sure you have the sharpest tools available. Your router may be dull & just folding the fiber over, instead of cutting it...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Make sure you have the sharpest tools available. Your router may be dull & just folding the fiber over, instead of cutting it...JER
Click to expand...
hi jer
brand new router bit
wouldnt the super glue on the end of the softer wood eliminate that problem??????? if the bit wasnt sharp???? hard to say i guess , huh
 
So It can't be slightly undercut with a really sharp manual tool to clean the edge up? I've never used fibre rings, but I just got some red fibre washers I was gonna try to match some older ringwork with. Reading this Is making me alittle paranoid to try them out.

I don't like the swelling either, and from the ferrules, I am aware of the problem, but It was the best color match I could find, unless I can get ahold of some of the older red phenolic, which would be My prefered material. I just need a good color match. They will be wrapped in black phenolic instead of being up against wood though.

Brent, just curious, but since the color was black, what made you decide to try the fibre over phenolic in the first place?

Please let us know what You figure out or what happens. I would be interested since It looks like I may have to use them on a shaft.


BTW, If you need a few black phenolic rings I can probably spare a few.

Greg
 
BHQ said:
hi jer
brand new router bit
wouldnt the super glue on the end of the softer wood eliminate that problem??????? if the bit wasnt sharp???? hard to say i guess , huh
Click to expand...

Are you cutting with the router 's points or sides?...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Are you cutting with the router 's points or sides?...JER
Click to expand...

I use the routers setup where it cuts on end and cut a cue with some thin fiber rings and have several and have not had a issue to date. Maybe I have been lucky.
 
RDCustomCues said:
I use the routers setup where it cuts on end and cut a cue with some thin fiber rings and have several and have not had a issue to date. Maybe I have been lucky.
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Me neither.
I epoxy the threaded collars and turn them hard.
Since the rings are way oversized I take light passes so they don't tear out.
I do get cleaner cuts with a 3-wing cutter ( router speed cut to 2/3 ).
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Are you cutting with the router 's points or sides?...JER
Click to expand...
the sides , but adjusted so that the very tip of point is centered on work, or just a smidge below center if anything
 
BHQ said:
the sides , but adjusted so that the very tip of point is centered on work, or just a smidge below center if anything
Click to expand...

The reason I asked is because, I had this problem when I used the sides of the router. That went away, when I cut with the ends of the router bit...JER
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
The reason I asked is because, I had this problem when I used the sides of the router. That went away, when I cut with the ends of the router bit...JER
Click to expand...
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
well, i guess i will try that next time
thanks jer
 
Brent, It's your speed. You are passing by the ring to fast for the blades to cut it. With the ring that small , slow it down. You will find that a small ring , will roll , and can be easily remedied by a razor blade turned on it side at an angle. It will sharpen up the ring back to normal. Also , why would you super glue the end of the wood? That can cause the ring not to seat and will allow it to push off the wood, also causing this. The epoxy depending on which kind you use has 1500 to 2500 pounds of holding power per square inch. Heck of alot stronger than any super glue. Plus by using the super gluew , you are putting a barrier between the wood and the ring not letting the epoxy soak in and set into the wood. Sometime allowing small glue lines to appear over time.
Just my 2 cents ,
Jim Lee
 
J&D CUSTOMS said:
Brent, It's your speed. You are passing by the ring to fast for the blades to cut it. With the ring that small , slow it down. You will find that a small ring , will roll , and can be easily remedied by a razor blade turned on it side at an angle. It will sharpen up the ring back to normal. Also , why would you super glue the end of the wood? That can cause the ring not to seat and will allow it to push off the wood, also causing this. The epoxy depending on which kind you use has 1500 to 2500 pounds of holding power per square inch. Heck of alot stronger than any super glue. Plus by using the super gluew , you are putting a barrier between the wood and the ring not letting the epoxy soak in and set into the wood. Sometime allowing small glue lines to appear over time.
Just my 2 cents ,
Jim Lee
Click to expand...

JIM; I agree 100 %...JER
 
i agree with that too.i understand the super glue as a sealer,but i would flat face again after the super glue not before the super glue.
 
J&D CUSTOMS said:
Brent, It's your speed. You are passing by the ring to fast for the blades to cut it. With the ring that small , slow it down. You will find that a small ring , will roll , and can be easily remedied by a razor blade turned on it side at an angle. It will sharpen up the ring back to normal. Also , why would you super glue the end of the wood? That can cause the ring not to seat and will allow it to push off the wood, also causing this. The epoxy depending on which kind you use has 1500 to 2500 pounds of holding power per square inch. Heck of alot stronger than any super glue. Plus by using the super gluew , you are putting a barrier between the wood and the ring not letting the epoxy soak in and set into the wood. Sometime allowing small glue lines to appear over time.
Just my 2 cents ,
Jim Lee
Click to expand...
i cut at the slowest speed as i always do
the walnut had a kinda ruff edge after facing, so i super glued it a few coats then faced again to get a cleaner edge
i dug thru the garbage to find the scrap i mixed the epoxy on when i did that section.
there was just a touch of black stuff on the popsicle stick i used to apply the epoxy on the rings
i guess it was just some bleed from the fiber rings
i did the razor blade thingy too
 
since you faced it again,i don't see anything at all then with super glue as a sealer.it actually works quite well.

i use the fiber pretty frequently and they are pretty good about not bleeding actually.to me they seem to do better than phenolic at not bleeding.

i think it just expanded on you.the glue probably wasn't 100% cured and when the cutter layed the ring over it pushed it out a little and it expanded.

hopefully the cue is oversized enough that you can sand enough off to get it back to .015".i have only had this problem when i used to try and shave them with the flat-face cutting toll in the tool post.how fast is the router bit spinning?
 
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