I need help..

X Breaker

X Breaker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know this is very silly, please do not laugh at me.

When I was shooting with my James White, a guy came over, and said, "this looks just like the $20 Chinese cue I saw the other day. You are not going to believe it, that cue hit so good, I really wanted to buy it. Do you sell them?"

"No, I am sorry, I dont. Why didnt you buy that cue then?"

"Hummmm, I didn't have the money at that time..."

"Well, I am sorry, I have no idea where to get one for you..."

I went back to shooting. He came and said, "so how much is this cue, I really like it."

"Well, it is a bit expensive. It is almost $3000. I am not selling it, it is my playing cue."

"What? why? Why is it so expensive? Is it the inlays? If it is, then it makes no sense at all? The inlays are not even that fancy, they are not diamond, are they? Is it the hit, I mean, I can get a $20 cue to hit just as nice. Why?"

I was speechless, no idea how to begin...

"Is it the wood, but it cant be...Wood are not that expensive...Come on, does this cue has very little deflection, is that why?"

"I am sorry, I dont know how to explain it."

"Come on, pool players buy a cue to play. Why does this cue worth so much? You know ... (another cue maker's name, whose cues are in the $500 range) 's cues are sooooo good, because there is no deflection...is this one better?"

*********************************************************


How should I explain to this guy, in a few simple sentences, why a James White is worth so much more than a Chinese $20 cue?

Please help me...

Thank you.

Richard
 
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This is not the first time, when I was using my Southwest, some guy did the same thing.

"Who made this cue? What? Southwest, so that is the factory's name? Why is it so expensive? What, 93, that is too old, no wonder it looks so beat up...the tip is too fat..."

With my plain Bluegrass, it was even more embarassing. The guy said I was being ripped off. He then went on to show me his Predator Sneaky Pete with a Z shaft, and he said, with a sense of pride, "my cue is much better than yours, and I only paid $700. Try it, come on.."

These all happened when I was not even trying to sell the cues, I was practising or holding my cue waiting for my match.

Is there a simple and short answer for this line of questions? I am not looking to be a smart a%%, I really just want to know how to explain it in a precise and concise manner without having to go into a lecture.

Thank you.

Richard
 
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Richard, I have had the same thing happen to me. When someone starts talking about cue prices...and they don't have a clue, and they say a $20.00 is as good as any, I just agree. Because no matter what I say, they already have their mind made up.

If they come across with a more sincere attitude and are really looking for more cue knowledge, I will talk to them candidly.
 
The way I explain is to compare to paintings.

A cue is a piece of functional art. A Rembrandt only has a few dollars worth of paint and canvas but cost tens of thousands of dollars. You can go to Hobby Lobby and buy a print of a Rembrandt for $19.99. Your cue is the Hobby Lobby print, mine is the real painting.

Jim
 
Why bother explaining it to the genius ?
If Jesus came down from heaven and told him why, he still won't get it.
 
Thank you for the painting analogy. But how do you explain the part about the "hit" when he said the most important part of a good cue is "low deflection?"

I think he was quite seriously curious about why. I am serious with my question, too. I really want to know how to explain this kind of things in a simple manner; unfortunately, I really do not even know how to begin...
 
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X Breaker said:
But how do you explain the part about the "hit" when he said the most important part of a good cue is "low deflection?"
Click to expand...

This is a losing arguement. People buy cues for different reasons. Southwest and Bluegrass are very collectible and both have a high market demand. Do they hit well, they have an excellent reputation for doing so. Will they make you a better player...not in my opinion. If they did, every pro on tour would be using them. You didn't spend $3,000 on your White to be a better player did you? You spent the money because you wanted the artist James White to create a masterpiece for you.

I am on the list for Southwest, why, because I want one for my collection. I am on the list for Hercek, why, because he has a unique cue constructing style and I want an example of his work for my collection.

I don't think I helped any, just some ramblings.

Jim
 
X Breaker said:
Thank you for the painting analogy. But how do you explain the part about the "hit" when he said the most important part of a good cue is "low deflection?"

I think he was quite seriously curious about why. I am serious with my question, too. It is a good idea to know how to explain this kind of things in a simple manner, so more people can understand how to appreciate finer cues. Unfortunately, I really do not even know how to begin...
Click to expand...

X Breaker,
Maybe this argument would work: "Cue's are like watches and I like to pay a lot for my time and you don't. We both end up knowing what time it is but I feel much better about it than you do...so there, now leave me alone."...what time is it anyway?
 
jhendri2 said:
This is a losing arguement. People buy cues for different reasons. Southwest and Bluegrass are very collectible and both have a high market demand. Do they hit well, they have an excellent reputation for doing so. Will they make you a better player...not in my opinion. If they did, every pro on tour would be using them. You didn't spend $3,000 on your White to be a better player did you? You spent the money because you wanted the artist James White to create a masterpiece for you.

I am on the list for Southwest, why, because I want one for my collection. I am on the list for Hercek, why, because he has a unique cue constructing style and I want an example of his work for my collection.

I don't think I helped any, just some ramblings.

Jim
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Jim,

If I just wanted to get a playing cue, I could have bought a plain jane. So, you are right.

I feel so helpless not being able to make him understand.

This guy is a fine player, and a nice guy, but he does not even have a computer so if I have to explain everything to him, I may even need to bring out the blue book, and my lap top and so on, which is totally ridiculous.

I felt like I was trying to explain something to an alien from another planet.

Thank you.

Richard
 
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good one

cheesemouse said:
X Breaker,
Maybe this argument would work: "Cue's are like watches and I like to pay a lot for my time and you don't. We both end up knowing what time it is but I feel much better about it than you do...so there, now leave me alone."...what time is it anyway?
Click to expand...
i like that. it saves the time and trouble it takes to explain that a cuemaker hand selects the wood and other component parts and takes the time to make sure all aspects of the construction fit their personal specs. the better sticks take time to build. from beginning to end it takes me about 6wks to build a shaft. would you pay a 250,000+ for a ferrari if it was built in less than a week, or on an assembly line?
M.C.
 
Richard...Buy the idiot a $20 computer at the pawn shop, and let him come here and learn for himself! Better yet...have him go to almost ANY library, and use their computer.

Here, however, is the most practical answer: "I could tell you, but then I'd have to KILL you!" :D :D :D See you next week! Looking forward to meeting you!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Unless you're trying to sell it, why tell him how much you really paid for it? Not only would you avoid trying to justify it, you won't have strangers knowing you're holding an expensive cue.
 
curlyscues said:
would you pay a 250,000+ for a ferrari if it was built in less than a week, or on an assembly line?
M.C.
Click to expand...
Well actually they have a self imposed limit of about 4,300 cars a year. This equals out to about 83 cars a week. And they do have assembly lines. :D

I'm just being a smartass I know what you were trying to say. :D

Compare this to Nissan who makes about 700 cars a day. That's not combined either. That's 700 Altimas, 700 maximas, 700 Xterras, etc. Every day.
 
You really cannot explain our insanity.

However if you must, here's what you say.

" Sir, let me explain it to you. Let's just say you needed a place to stay. I happen to have two places available.

On that corner, to your left, is the NoTale Motel. You may stay there for $20 tonight. It has a bed, walls, running water, electricity, and all the comforts of home.

Directly across the street is the Four Seasons Resort and Spa. It too has all of these things. The Presidential suite is $3,000 a night.

Which room would you prefer?

Oh, by the way, I have arranged a date for you with Eva Longoria this evening.

Now which room would you prefer?

After all, they are the same, aren't they?"


Chris
 
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now that's a good one

TATE said:
You really cannot explain our insanity.

However if you must, here's what you say.

" Sir, let me explain it to you. Let's just say you needed a place to stay. I happen to have two places available.

On that corner, to your left, is the NoTale Motel. You may stay there for $20 tonight. It has a bed, walls, running water, electricity, and all the comforts of home.

Directly across the street is the Four Seasons Resort and Spa. It too has all of these things. The Presidential suite is $3,000 a night.

Which room would you prefer?

Oh, by the way, I have arranged a date for you with Eva Longoria this evening.

Now which room would you prefer?

After all, they are the same, aren't they?"


Chris
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i like this one, but i know some guys that might say "give me the 3k and i'll meet the girl in my backseat".
M.C.
 
The painting analogy was good. I've said some of these things before.

"Take a basketball for example if its signed by some pinerider whats it worth, if its signed by Micheal Jordon....whats it worth."

I've also said. "I can make a pretty good 50 dollar cue in my garage if you like or I can spend 1500 on a cue made with the finest woods and the utmost care and precision by a gentleman that has perfected his craft over the last 2 decades or more....and to my exact specifications."

Then I always add "Its one of a kind and there isn't another one like it out there and it was built just for me". Because personal touch really does mean a lot to people.
 
PKM said:
Unless you're trying to sell it, why tell him how much you really paid for it? Not only would you avoid trying to justify it, you won't have strangers knowing you're holding an expensive cue.
Click to expand...

Very good point.

While I've had a number of cues, some very handsome ones, that played very well, my favorite is a lowly Excalibur sneaky pete, made with ebony. It's been "customised" with a stack leather grip that's about 6 inches long, right where my hand tends to fall for most shots. Feels really nice. Has an Ed Young shaft on it, plays great. It's all dinged up; it's a player. Probably one of the most important things about it is that it's a full splice cue, the feel is awesome. I paid precious little for it. Would I want to change to another cue? Perhaps, but it better play and feel like the one I already have. If someone offered me a lot of money for it, would I sell it? Not so sure... I have a friend who told me never to sell that cue.

Now, if someone had a cue that felt like this one, and was a magnificent example of cuemaking artisanship, and was striking in appearance as well, and it cost $5,000 or $10,000 or whatever, and he loved the way it did what it did, why should someone question his decision to have it? Because some people just like to do that.

IMHO, telling someone the cue is worth $3,000 and then having to justify that to him from a functional standpoint is probably a losing proposition. Perhaps the easiest thing to say to someone who genuinely wants to know why it's worth $3,000 is because you were willing to pay that for it, on the open market, it's made to your personal specifications, with the woods you wanted and the workmanship of a master craftsman who put his soul into making it for you, just you. It's a unique work of functional art.

You might also say that suits can be picked up cheap at a thrift store, for $10 or $15. They fit, maybe look alright. But they don't compare to a custom made suit, that fits perfectly, has the details and fabric and style that is uniquely you. Both look nice, but the custom one is just better.

Flex
 
I'll take a crack at the question, even though I admittedly don't know much about cues.

A $20 cue is effectively made by taking a log and shaping it into a cue (if I am not mistaken). In otherwords it is a very simply made cue. However they can play very well because they are one piece of wood so they can have a solid hit.

With more expensive cues you are paying for better wood and designs on the butt. The shafts are put together using many pieces and layers of wood. So there is extra time and labour required in these cues.

With low yield cue makers you are paying for the design, a well made shaft and butt, as well as the name. The fact that the cue maker only makes a limited number of cues per year is also part of the reason why it is so expensive. The make every one themselves, by hand.

That's my uneducated take on it. If I am wrong at anywhere in my post feel free to pick it apart. I don't mind learning.
 
There is a old man in my hall who watches a bunch of us play. Every other day he looks admirably at my cue and states. With a cue like that it's now wonder you shoot so straight.

I always politely thank him and nod and tell him it helps. He then goes on to ask me how much (he's nearly 80)...I always answer him it's a custom with many shafts that have been made for it over the years and I'm not sure how much it's worth. He then goes on to throw out figures...$200...$300...maybe $400.

What do I tell a man who probably operates on $800/month pension? I repeat the same line to him every time.

My Wife, Child, Homes, Cars, Watches and Cues are insured form theft or loss all other material possessions I would not shed a tear for. My wife joked one night over dinner that in a flood what would I do? Who would I save first?

Answer:
Wife on one arm. Daughter on other. Cue case clenched between my teeth. 8 Watches on each arm. Floating down the street like Flavor Flav.
Flavoroflovelogo.jpg


A $3000 SW I don't play with, I have no emotional attachment with. A $20.00 cue that I use as my primary playing cue is priceless. My father couldn't understand why I paid $4.00 for a coffee at Starbucks.

Mideshare + Heartshare = Marketshare

Nick
 
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