Ian Anderson's statement about missing players

P

phoebe choy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did you read the latest article on AZ about the WTBC being held in Manila next year?

I don't know about you guys but DAM he sounds like Yen/Raya(ahem)...a dictator(cough cough) to me. He went even as far as to say he thinks the field is "tougher" without them.....geez, no wonder why BMPAP got no help when they reached out to WPA to help settle things. Sounds like Ian is in cahoots with somebody....yeah I said it but it's from my observations/readings that I come to this conclusion.

And for him to even try and make us believe that this tournament surpassed others is ludacris. Matchroom and the previous WPC in the Philippines (WITH Efren, Busti, Alex, Dennis, Alcano, etc.) were far more successful from a spectator level. Ian and Yen keep trying to make us believe that THIS WTBC is a huge success...maybe for them it was$$$$$ But I'm sure the lack of spectators (with all those pool-loving fanatics in the PI) is most damaging. It's funny cause everything I hear/read about this tourney seems so fake/foolish, like they want us to believe what their DREAM is, and not what REALLY is.

I might get heat for even writing all this....but I'm sorry they (Ian/Yen/Raya/WPA/etc.) seem like a farce. I put my real name on the line here but (sorry again) when I see or smell rats....it/they eqauls RATS!

I call a spade a spade. If I'm right, I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But this is just the way I see things. It's quite disgusting how these people put in positions to further the sport, are treating the top players in the Philippines (and the world) like they are replaceable. That's no class...especially when you think about all the BMPAP players that he is referring to. These guys are the best, some even legendary, and they speak of them as if they are nothing and mean nothing to the "pool" world - that's just horrible!!! Well they are not replaceable....and they definitely deserve some sort of respect (IMO).

I guess my whole "bone to pick" is that Ian (being head of the WPA of all things) could have handled it better. He could have done it a LOT more gracefully than he did....instead I look at him completely different - a puppet of Yen/Raya, or trying to line his own pockets at whatever cost, or too prideful to admit he shouldn't have chose sides in this issue, or a dictator in his own right. Whatever the case, he definitely lost my respect as a qualified person to be heading the WPA - with a response like his, we all know who's "side" he is on regarding the issue in the Philippines.

Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE man, Ian is.:mad: :angry:
 
Just to make sure I wasn't being emotional, or I read the article wrong, I read it again.

I am more upset now cause he specifically mentioned Efren, Busti, and Alex as "not mattering". Please someone give this guy a clue!!! Alex, Dennis, Busti, Alcano, etc. are TOPS when it comes to playing 10-ball of all things!!!! These guys are top in ANY dscipline...where the hell does this guy get off!!!???

He also goes on to say that "new" talents will be found in 10-ball.....like 10-ball is a new thing that they came up with???? The players came up with 10-ball...it has been around for a loooong time, and there won't be any "new" talent to be found...it will still be the top guys (Soquet, Hohman, Van Boeing, Wu, Busti, Orcullo, Alex, Alcano, Efren, etc.) slugging it out in ANY discipline for a long time. They are complete idiots if they think the absence of PI's best-of-the-best does not matter in a tournament. THEY (ALL THE PROVEN TOP CLASS PLAYERS) ARE THE TOURNAMENT.

Yen and Ian are both power-tripping, ego-maniacs. I understand now why Bandido and others on here, are so fanatical in support against BSCP/Yen. They should count Ian in, as a person who is doing everything they can to bring down the BMPAP and the other top players of the Philippines. They should count him in (with Yen) as another dictator-like bully who wants to maintain control at whatever the cost.

It's all so upsetting.
 
Keep fighting Phoebe!!!

I am with BMPAP all the way

did you read what Ted Lerner wrote? No wonder why he wrote bad about the bmpap, he is working for Raya during this event....
 
I dont know who is at fault but i know that somewhere around 1997 in the US, there were two factions, the CJ Wiley break-away-faction and the original one- Sorry Im not good with initials. AT any rate, pro pool hasn't flourished since. I know it wasnt the main reason but pool is fragile and that sort of thing doesnt help. They need to come together over there soon!
 
One thing tells the whole story for me and that is all of the empty seats in the arena . They can spin it however they want but you cant hide those empty seats.

Hopefully these two factions can come to some sort of compromise. Just based on my observations of things on the surface I think that after all of the back and forth and the bad blood, some one is going to have get hurt pretty bad (financially and professionally) before an olive branch is offered by either side.

Till then the players and fans will be the ones to suffer. If a stronger and better organization is the end result then it may be worth it. But if it just comes back to the same old thing then both sides will have done nothing but piss a bunch of people off and make a bunch of self important noise.

I heard a little saying that was attributed to a judge who heard labor arbitration cases "I know that if both parties leave unhappy then I have probably reached a pretty good compromise" . I just hope the leaders involved really want to compromise, so far I do not see that so it looks like we are in for more events like the current one.
 
Dave...Just to help ya out...It was the fall of 1998, when the PCA (Professional Cuesports Association), which was founded by a group of disgruntled PBTA players (including Wiley, Strickland, Hopkins, and several other high-profile name players), had their first event in Dallas, at C.J.'s room. This is where Earl won 11 games in a row, to win the $1,000,000 bonus prize. The PCA was an answer to Don Mackey's dictatorial powers over the Pro Billiard Tour Association players. Mackey declared that NOBODY in his group could play in any other events, except PBT events (and you would be sanctioned and fined if you did). The PCA specifically said that you could belong to any group you wanted (or none at all), and still play in PCA events...imo, a great step forward for men's pro pool, at the time. Unfortunately, the circumstances surrounding Earl winning the money, the first day of the first event (of a planned tour of 10 tournaments, each with a potential $1,000,000 prize) gummed up the works, for this group to continue. If they had been able to keep going, they might well have been the mainstay in men's pro pool today. The UPA is just another version of the PBT, imo, with all the poor direction and squabbling among the players. The similarities between what's going on in the P.I., and what went on back then, are strikingly alike. One group wants to control all the events, and one group wants to benefit the players. It is a shame that they can't work together, for the benefit of all.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Nostroke said:
I dont know who is at fault but i know that somewhere around 1997 in the US, there were two factions, the CJ Wiley break-away-faction and the original one- Sorry Im not good with initials. AT any rate, pro pool hasn't flourished since. I know it wasnt the main reason but pool is fragile and that sort of thing doesnt help. They need to come together over there soon!
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Scott Lee said:
Dave...Just to help ya out...It was the fall of 1995, when the PCA (Professional Cuesports Association), which was founded by a group of disgruntled PBTA players (including Wiley, Strickland, Hopkins, and several other high-profile name players), had their first event in Dallas, at C.J.'s room. Randy Goettlicher was the tournament director. This is where Earl won 11 games in a row, to win the $1,000,000 bonus prize. The PCA was an answer to Don Mackey's dictatorial powers over the Pro Billiard Tour Association players. Mackey declared that NOBODY in his group could play in any other events, except PBT events (and you would be sanctioned and fined if you did). The PCA specifically said that you could belong to any group you wanted (or none at all), and still play in PCA events...imo, a great step forward for men's pro pool, at the time. Unfortunately, the circumstances surrounding Earl winning the money, the first day of the first event (of a planned tour of 10 tournaments, each with a potential $1,000,000 prize) gummed up the works, for this group to continue. If they had been able to keep going, they might well have been the mainstay in men's pro pool today. The UPA is just another version of the PBT, imo, with all the poor direction and squabbling among the players. The similarities between what's going on in the P.I., and what went on back then, are strikingly alike. One group wants to control all the events, and one group wants to benefit the players. It is a shame that they can't work together, for the benefit of all.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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How can we, as the little people, bring down the giant and make it about the players and cuesports?

Dwight
 
In another thread, Jay has declared that he had eaten humble pie in having erred in how he had viewed Ian and Yen.

I am amazed that the WTB had even pushed through, and even if all the players get paid up, I still will not have my humble pie.

The WTB is a culmination of a repressing and unjust rule of the the sport with the victims as the players. While I am sure that all the top players who boycotted the event felt deep in them that they were missing out on the action where they felt that they could have easily won, they are at peace with their decision. They have stood their ground because they believe that they are in a fight. But this is without expecting their bosses to make up for their "loss" by coming up with tournaments for them.

Even if I abhor the way that the WTC was carved out, I, too, found myself watching the WTB on TV because first and foremost, I am a lover of the game. Every time a Filipino played, I forgot about the bad broadcasting and the empty seats. It was downright love for the game.

And in the same context, I openly criticized Makabenta and the WPA in how the WTB was pushed at all costs. The bottom line is my love for the sport.

No humble pies for me. If the players get paid, they just ought to have gotten paid. And if they get paid, perhaps all the policing and criticizing actually worked in forcing Makabenta to get things done right... all the way until one week before the event when he had no sponsors in the bag yet. If and when the players will get paid, instead of humble pie, I will salute Makabenta for getting an "A" for pulling it through against all odds. He should take in Efren's "I got lucky" line. He may not be a good and ethical businessman, but he sure has a bull head.

I really hope Makabenta does not find himself not being able to pay people because not paying people for what had been offered them and what are made for them to expect will be really just low.

As for Ian Andersen, it is really hard to read through his statement especially from a perspective that has his perspective merely as part of a larger view. He is like a tourist relying on his interpreter in the person of Yen Makabenta.
 
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BigDogatLarge said:
How can we, as the little people, bring down the giant and make it about the players and cuesports?

Dwight
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If you can figure that out they will put you in the Hall of Fame.
 
JCIN said:
If you can figure that out they will put you in the Hall of Fame.
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Well, I guess by now you know I am a hardhead and will come up with something. Then you guys that have the brains can make it happen. I am sick to death with all the greed involved. I am doing something local as my small part of the pie. I call to arms all true lovers of cuesports to get on the wagon and come up with a way to bring this sport out of the shadows and into the light.

Sorry to sound like a nutcase, but if you have no passion for what you love, what's the point?

Dwight
 
BigDogatLarge said:
Well, I guess by now you know I am a hardhead and will come up with something. Then you guys that have the brains can make it happen. I am sick to death with all the greed involved. I am doing something local as my small part of the pie. I call to arms all true lovers of cuesports to get on the wagon and come up with a way to bring this sport out of the shadows and into the light.

Sorry to sound like a nutcase, but if you have no passion for what you love, what's the point?

Dwight
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I think you have the right attitude. :D Maybe if we all just keep plugging at the grass roots level the powers that be will notice. Believe it or not I have seen some evidence that it works.
 
Nostroke said:
I dont know who is at fault but i know that somewhere around 1997 in the US, there were two factions, the CJ Wiley break-away-faction and the original one- Sorry Im not good with initials. AT any rate, pro pool hasn't flourished since. I know it wasnt the main reason but pool is fragile and that sort of thing doesnt help. They need to come together over there soon!
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CJ was the ring leader. George BreedLove & shanon daulton were CJs lieutinents.That rebillion erupted and came to the fore front in the holiday inn in Worcestor, Massachussetts.I forgot the name of the guy from connecticut who writes the western novels and who puts the money for challenge of champions and CJ told this guy off openly.I do n`t remember any more details other than that in the initial phase of it`s inception of PCA an ex foot ball player was brought in to run/manage PCA but with in a short period of time this Football dude was kicked out by CJ.:cool:
 
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It seems the problems attributed to the BMPAP/WPA feud closely mirror the problems from the 70's with American baseball. Back then, owners owned players and free agency was a utopian myth. Then came Curt Flood. He successfully argued in Court that he was entitled to free agency and that no person should be "owned" and thus un-free to shop his/her talents to the highest bidder. Since then, baseball has grown into a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The rest is history.

As for the WPA, perhaps they could take a lesson from this. Rule making, cro-magnon ownership that takes a paleolithic, "my way or the highway" approach to leadership/governance seems only to stunt the growth of a national sport. The baseball owners were forced to change and increased their investments a thousand fold in spite of their ignorance. I hope the WPA will soon see the light.

By the way, JCIN...who was the Judge?
It wasn't K.M. Landis...or was it?
 
phoebe choy said:
I don't know about you guys but DAM he sounds like Yen/Raya(ahem)...a dictator(cough cough) to me. :
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PC,
Unfortunately, in relatively minor sports, the governing bodies accumulate an inordinate amount of power - which is often misguided if not actually misused.

In the Olympic movement, the governing bodies made a FORTUNE from the skills of the amateur athletes. While the athletes eventually were able, through painful struggle, obtain the right to actually make some money from their skills; the governing body still makes thousands of times more income than the athletes.

It seems to be the primary directive of these bodies to make more than the players putting on the show - it can only change with organization of the players (ie. NFL, NBA). It requires quite a successful sport for the players to have the financial wherewithal to succeed in organizing. It seems unlikely to occur any time soon without a Trudeau-like "sugar daddy" to bankroll a tour, and enforce professional behavior.

Don Mackey was a bad person; and ruined what could have been a decent venture (ie. took sponsorship money for himself, and stiffed the players.....bad guy to be running a tour).
 
phoebe choy said:
Just to make sure I wasn't being emotional, or I read the article wrong, I read it again.

I am more upset now cause he specifically mentioned Efren, Busti, and Alex as "not mattering". Please someone give this guy a clue!!! Alex, Dennis, Busti, Alcano, etc. are TOPS when it comes to playing 10-ball of all things!!!! These guys are top in ANY dscipline...where the hell does this guy get off!!!???

He also goes on to say that "new" talents will be found in 10-ball.....like 10-ball is a new thing that they came up with???? The players came up with 10-ball...it has been around for a loooong time, and there won't be any "new" talent to be found...it will still be the top guys (Soquet, Hohman, Van Boeing, Wu, Busti, Orcullo, Alex, Alcano, Efren, etc.) slugging it out in ANY discipline for a long time. They are complete idiots if they think the absence of PI's best-of-the-best does not matter in a tournament. THEY (ALL THE PROVEN TOP CLASS PLAYERS) ARE THE TOURNAMENT.

Yen and Ian are both power-tripping, ego-maniacs. I understand now why Bandido and others on here, are so fanatical in support against BSCP/Yen. They should count Ian in, as a person who is doing everything they can to bring down the BMPAP and the other top players of the Philippines. They should count him in (with Yen) as another dictator-like bully who wants to maintain control at whatever the cost.

It's all so upsetting.
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i think a new talent in pulpul has been found. which is a BMPAP player LOL!!! the world 10 ball crowd this year says it all.. and *i think* most of the *ehem few ehem* crowd in there got in for free. even with general admission ticket you can sit on the tv table :thumbup:
 
BigDogatLarge said:
How can we, as the little people, bring down the giant and make it about the players and cuesports?

Dwight
Click to expand...


I have proposed an organization restricted to basic functions in order to permit success. No dues, so that everyone interested will join. No restrictions on player conduct (as that is handled by tournament directors). No running tournaments (work with all tournaments and tours). No banning of players from playing in whatever tournaments they wish. No closed/invitational tournaments. And no sanctioning fees.

If anyone is interested in helping form such an organization, stop by The Independent Professional Poolplayers Association. and help build an organizational structure that is of the players, by the players, and for the players. You don't need a credit card.
 
Good responses guys...I agree on a lot of things brought up.

I guess it's frustrating with how blatant they are in their attempt to completely control the players. What's MOST frustrating is that these guys (Yen/Ian) are not even players or former players!!!! They know nothing about the game or what it takes to live in these players shoes!!!!

From first hand experience with myself as an amateur/semi-pro and Alex as a top-pro, there are so many sacrafices that we go thru just to play this game on a competitive level. So, when the people put in position to run the organizations that hold tournaments treat players like they are replaceable, it's a total slap in the face. I'm sure Jeannette or Alison would not stand for that kind of treatment??? So why should the men players either?

It's good that the men have some uprising/disagreement, etc. with their organizations. Hopefully it will lead to a brighter future for men's pool. But it's just sad that the "dictators" will drag it out as long as possible with the players having the most to lose in that time. They (Yen/Ian/whoever) need to go to church and learn a basic thing called decency - and just doing what is right.

Pride is the most useless thing for one to hold onto. <My Dad always says that:D You get respect when you can ADMIT you were WRONG than trying to prove how much you were right.

As a player it seems pretty simple. It's the politics/money/greed/pride/dictators that purposely make things complicated . They are just too shady to be put into positions of power in the pool-world....especially when they don't have a clue how to even play the game!!!
 
I think pool needs an association that is more like the PGA then MLB. Something that is geared around giving back to the community thru charitable donations instead of just having an organization that is only geared to make money. This would get more outside money involved that might not ordinarily get in as a sponsor. Not saying that MLB and its players don't donate money/time/events but, every PGA event is raising money for local charities.

Not implying that it's that easy to get going but it would give nonpool fanatics a reason to want to participate in an event.
 
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