I'd like to know your thoughts on Viking Cues

[DavidMNienow]

In the 10 1/2 years I worked for Billiards & Sports in Medford, I know that I sold hundreds of Viking cues over that time. For me the Viking cue represented one of the finest values in American custom cues. I was always impressed by the quality of the stock of Birdseye Maple that could be found in their maple cues. I liked the longer taper on their shafts which was standard. I liked that they stayed true to their history with most of their designs which reflected more classic elements & materials. And from what I have seen of recent cues coming from Viking I do not see any reduction in the quality of what they are producing. For someone looking for an excellent American cue with a lot of value for the dollar, I will still continue to recommend Viking cues.

 

[seven_7days]

Longer taper?

I thought the taper on Vikings were 12" to 14"?
I was planning on getting a VVS1-BK but wanted a 16" pro taper.
Can somebody confirm please?

 

[poolplayer2093]

I thought the taper on Vikings were 12" to 14"?
I was planning on getting a VVS1-BK but wanted a 16" pro taper.
Can somebody confirm please?

a shaft taper that long seems to make the shafts play whippy to me. they do use good shaft wood though. if they stiffened up the taper i'd be all about those cues.

viking cues look great. their designs are classy and not over done. but the shafts are too whippy. if i ever got one i'd get an aftermarket shaft with a stiffer taper.

 

[seven_7days]

a shaft taper that long seems to make the shafts play whippy to me. they do use good shaft wood though. if they stiffened up the taper i'd be all about those cues.

viking cues look great. their designs are classy and not over done. but the shafts are too whippy. if i ever got one i'd get an aftermarket shaft with a stiffer taper.

can you explain what you mean by "whippy"?

 

[measureman]

can you explain what you mean by "whippy"?

I think he means it flexes too much. Not a stiff shaft like a Joss.

 

[Dunnn51]

Viktory !!

Maybe if one is much lighter than a typical cue.

Wrong again. It would be wise of you to defer to my extensive experience with jump cue and jump shots. I know that is something you might find distasteful but I guarantee you it's true.

Let me state this again:

You can have two cues which both weigh the same. Both with the same tip brand and hardness. Both are "normal" playing cues and ONE of them will be great for jumping balls and the other will be terrible.




Well then based on that alone there IS a difference in cues. But it's more than that. Cues are not simply the sum of their parts. They can be tuned in a sense by which parts are used. That's why some cues just feel better than others. Does this make a difference in performance? To a degree it does, to what degree is not known and of course highly debatable.

Still though I very much doubt that you would go into battle in an important match with a stock Kmart cue. Even if your current cue and the Kmart cue were put on a machine and found to have very close squirt properties I still think that when the outcome is super important you would not use that Kmart cue if you have a choice.

He's DONE Twist that broadsword once and pull it out JB !! :clapping:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JB Cases:
Cues are not simply the sum of their parts. They can be tuned in a sense by which parts are used. That's why some cues just feel better than others. Does this make a difference in performance?

It might make a difference in the player's performance - so might the phase of the moon. In other words, you could truthfully say "I play better with this cue", but that doesn't mean "this cue plays better".

I very much doubt that you would go into battle in an important match with a stock Kmart cue.

I'm sure that what you doubt about what I'd do is very interesting to you.

pj
chgo

 

[JB Cases]

It might make a difference in the player's performance - so might the phase of the moon. In other words, you could truthfully say "I play better with this cue", but that doesn't mean "this cue plays better".

No it doesn't. However speaking practically if the only variable is the shooter then the experienced shooter is certainly able to use the word playability to determine a cue's fitness for use.

If deflection consistency is the only measurable criteria then a cue's playability falls and rises on that scale. As for the intangibles like how well a player can draw a ball with one cue or the other a decent player can certainly determine playability as certainly as a driver can determine driveability of a car or a chef knows whether one knife is better than another.

I'm sure that what you doubt about what I'd do is very interesting to you.

pj
chgo

Yes it is because what a man says and what he does are often at odds. If you won't gamble using a K-Mart cue then you believe that different cues have different "playability".

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...if the only variable is the shooter then the experienced shooter is certainly able to use the word playability to determine a cue's fitness for use.

For his use.

If deflection consistency is the only measurable criteria then a cue's playability falls and rises on that scale.

For a player to whom deflection matters.

As for the intangibles like how well a player can draw a ball with one cue or the other a decent player can certainly determine playability

For himself.

If you won't gamble using a K-Mart cue then you believe that different cues have different "playability".

For whoever "you" is.

As I've been saying, "playability" is a subjective measure. No typically functional cue is more "playable" than another for everybody.

pj
chgo

 

[JB Cases]

For his use.


For a player to whom deflection matters.


For himself.


For whoever "you" is.

As I've been saying, "playability" is a subjective measure. No typically functional cue is more "playable" than another for everybody.

pj
chgo

Then answer the question, if you had to play a very important match, would you use a cue that was purchased off-the-shelf at Kmart?

If not then you clearly believe that playability is more than subjective. If you prove by your refusal that you - the variable - cannot adapt yourself to perform as well with one cue as opposed to another then you prove that you do believe in playability as an objective measure as well as a subjective one.

Using terms like "typically functional" is a cop-out. What is typically functional to you? Define it.

 

[Vikingfan129]

I just bought myself a Viking V129-BL and so far I love it! I've shot over the years with many different cues from Meucci to Cuetec and I gotta say this new Viking tops them all.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Then answer the question, if you had to play a very important match, would you use a cue that was purchased off-the-shelf at Kmart?

If not then you clearly believe that playability is more than subjective.

Man, you have major problems with logic.

What I would do shows my subjective preference, which may be partly based on objective "performance" characteristics (squirt being the only obvious objective one).

Next trip around this inane merry-go-round you're on your own.

pj
chgo

 

[Webbs Billiards]

Man, you have major problems with logic.

What I would do shows my subjective preference, which may be partly based on objective "performance" characteristics (squirt being the only obvious objective one).

Next trip around this inane merry-go-round you're on your own.

pj
chgo

I'm thinking you both need to buy matching Two Flower Viking Coyote Tricksters from me and play death matches till the tips wear out

Webb's Billiards Supply
sales@webbsbilliardssupply.com
Facebook.com/webbsbilliardssupply

 

[riedmich]

I had a G14 and all in all it was a cue that was average in each belong. No bad issues and no super issues, just average or "neutral". A good base to concentrate on playing and not on a new record cue in hit, feedback, deflection, sound .... , a very well working cue.

But I couldn't get used to the taper, so I sold it.

 

[Dunnn51]

I've never owned one, but have seen many. They all seemed like pretty good quality production cues. I'm only talking about construction and looks - I don't believe in "playability".pj
chgo

TAKEN FROM THE 1st PAGE:

Quite Frankly PJ ,...... I see the word "I" there in your 1st post.
YOU have been quarrelling with JB about "TERMS"

Respectfully, while you are entitled to your opinion, JB is asking YOU ABOUT YOUR WILLINGNESS TO PLAY WITH AN ORDINARY CUE ,since you don't believe in playability.
You still did not answer him, and question his logic when you can't twist words on him.

Why can't you just retract your statement ?? If it were true AZ Billiards wouldn't be the size it is now. Think about it ......

 

[JB Cases]

Man, you have major problems with logic.

What I would do shows my subjective preference, which may be partly based on objective "performance" characteristics (squirt being the only obvious objective one).

Next trip around this inane merry-go-round you're on your own.

pj
chgo

So in conclusion you say you don't believe in "playability" or as I define it a cue's fitness to be used comfortably to play pool at a decent level, but yet you have preference based on the amount of squirt the cue produces. So by that measure a cue that has significantly different squirt than you prefer is less playable than one you like.

Case closed.

 

[poolplayer2093]

So in conclusion you say you don't believe in "playability" or as I define it a cue's fitness to be used comfortably to play pool at a decent level, but yet you have preference based on the amount of squirt the cue produces. So by that measure a cue that has significantly different squirt than you prefer is less playable than one you like.

Case closed.

his disbelief in playability might hurt his cue sales down the road.

 

[Webbs Billiards]

his disbelief in playability might hurt his cue sales down the road.

LOL. This has nothing to do with cue sales....

Webb's Billiards Supply
sales@webbsbilliardssupply.com
Facebook.com/webbsbilliardssupply

 

[poolplayer2093]

LOL. This has nothing to do with cue sales....

Webb's Billiards Supply
sales@webbsbilliardssupply.com
Facebook.com/webbsbilliardssupply

i personally feel more comfortable buying a cue from someone who believes his cue performs well. just like i want my surgeon to believe he is the best a cue maker should also have similar confidence.

just my opinion

 

[JB Cases]

his disbelief in playability might hurt his cue sales down the road.

Well Pat is not a cue salesman.

But this does bring up a good point. What is "hit" and playability anyway?

I sold cues for a LONG time. I got so sick of people asking me for cues of certain characterisitics, hard, soft, whippy, responsive, low deflection, etc..... that I finally stopped trying to describe cues that way and would simply tell people to hit with them and if they liked it buy it and if not keep looking.

One day I had a guy come to the booth and ask for something "soft" like a Meucci. I told him all I had that might be close is a Joss. He took it and tried it and came back saying it was way too hard. I said ok, sorry, that's all I have. He leaves and comes back about an hour later and picks up a cue with a tree trunk of a shaft. This cue had the thickest and stiffest shaft of any cue I have seen then and since. He says how about this one is it hard or soft.

Well I looked at him and said I don't know, take it and try it for yourself. So he did and comes back about 30 minutes later and says, "this is the best cue I have ever played with". And he bought it.

So since then I don't try very hard if at all to explain cues by their "hit", I simply let people play with them to decide for themselves.

That said there are some cues which are really not fit for use as a pool cue. I understand Pat's point better than he knows but he refuses to accept mine.