Idea for Diamond Mod

Interesting questions

How thick was your rail, 1 3/4
what was the nose heights 1 13/32 and tried 1 7/16, at 1 13/16 I noticed a bounce
Was there cloth wraped around the cushion tested both wraped and not wrapped, noticed about 30 percent loss when wrapped
Also tested on angles up to 45 degrees
 
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calibration said:
Interesting questions

How thick was your rail, 1 3/4
what was the nose heights 1 13/32 and tried 1 7/16, at 1 13/16 I noticed a bounce
Was there cloth wraped around the cushion tested both wraped and not wrapped, noticed about 30 percent loss when wrapped
Also tested on angles up to 45 degrees
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...what you missed was that the rail thickness being 1 3/4" is what controls where the body of the cushion sits at behind the nose height. Drop that to 1 11/16" and keep all the cushions at the same nose height you had....and every cushion you tested will test differently.
 
calibration said:
Interesting questions

How thick was your rail, 1 3/4
what was the nose heights 1 13/32 and tried 1 7/16, at 1 13/16 I noticed a bounce
Was there cloth wraped around the cushion tested both wraped and not wrapped, noticed about 30 percent loss when wrapped
Also tested on angles up to 45 degrees
Click to expand...

See, 63 1/2% of the ball height +/- 1% to determine the nose height of the cushions....is what everyone seems to be stuck on. No one seems to understand or realize where the back of the cushion sits sub rail height wise, determines what nose height is needed, not the BCA nose height recommendations, that example is wrong...LOL Try following the BCA nose height recommendation on a set of sub rails that are 1 1/2" thick and see what happens....go ahead and set that nose height to 1 27/64"...which IS 63 1/2% of the 2 1/4" pool balls....LMAO
 
calibration said:
Interesting questions

How thick was your rail, 1 3/4
what was the nose heights 1 13/32 and tried 1 7/16, at 1 13/16 I noticed a bounce
Was there cloth wraped around the cushion tested both wraped and not wrapped, noticed about 30 percent loss when wrapped
Also tested on angles up to 45 degrees
Click to expand...

Follow this and see if it makes since. Diamond red label rails, 1 3/4" thick sub rails, 1 29/64" nose height = banking short and playing springy. I redesigned the sub rails to be 1 11/16" thick, which dropped the nose height to 1 23/64". So, i then changed the sub rail bevel to raise the nose height back up to 1 27/64" which is the blue label rails " no more banking short or springy rails....when new. But, like any table, when cloth starts to get dirty, worn....and everything else that happens when a table isn't taken care of properly....can change the way a table, any table plays. So the summery is, i didn't change the nose height at all, what i did do however, is change the centerline of the cushion to be more behind the nose of the cushion, instead of above it.
 
realkingcobra said:
Follow this and see if it makes since. Diamond red label rails, 1 3/4" thick sub rails, 1 29/64" nose height = banking short and playing springy. I redesigned the sub rails to be 1 11/16" thick, which dropped the nose height to 1 23/64". So, i then changed the sub rail bevel to raise the nose height back up to 1 27/64" which is the blue label rails " no more banking short or springy rails....when new. But, like any table, when cloth starts to get dirty, worn....and everything else that happens when a table isn't taken care of properly....can change the way a table, any table plays. So the summery is, i didn't change the nose height at all, what i did do however, is change the centerline of the cushion to be more behind the nose of the cushion, instead of above it.
Click to expand...

We spoke on the phone a few months ago about working on my GC I. Please contact me when you make your plans to come to the east coast this year.
 
Glen,
I think a significant contributer is the rail angle surface that the cushion mounts to. I see allot of variation within just 1 table, like 5 degrees which has allot to do with it. If I were to recut the angle what would you recommend?
 
calibration said:
Glen,
I think a significant contributer is the rail angle surface that the cushion mounts to. I see allot of variation within just 1 table, like 5 degrees which has allot to do with it. If I were to recut the angle what would you recommend?
Click to expand...

The bevel is where the flaw is, because the formula is A+B = C. A= known sub rail thickness, B= the desired nose height. C= the unknown bevel it takes to put A+B together. If you don't have a consistent sub rail thickness, you can't maintain the same nose height from rail to rail. If you don't have the correct sub rail thickness to produce the maximum play ability of the cushions you're installing, your rails are never going to play at their best. K55 and K66 cushions can NOT share the same thickness of sub rails, i don't care if you set the nose height to be the same on both, the body of the cushion in relation to the nose is in two different places, therefore will result in two different playing tables with the exact same nose height.
 
Kevin3824 said:
Seems like general consensus is to simply practice on the table with it as is until I acquire the skills to be a world beater then consider making it more difficult at home then it is in any bar. It seems to me practicing on specific target areas of a pocket on a table with smaller pockets would be advantageous if I went to a same sized table with larger pockets to compete on. Basically from the previous postings so far the only thing I should even consider doing is next time I need to change out the cloth I should put on 760 instead of 860 and that will only really increase the bed speed not the bank speed. Or maybe use those crappy pocket reducers at home that do not respond like any cushions I have played on in the past they are so stiff.
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If you play on extremely tight pockets at home you will certainly reach a point where you have to sacrifice position play to adhere to required speed to pocket the ball, at which point your position play will suffer. Position only matters if you make the shot. Practice on conditions as similar as possible to what you compete on I say.
 
Cobra,

What is the best bevel angle for K55 with 1 3/4 thick rails?
Gold crowns are around 21, considering going to 17 1/2 to put the nose center closer to the center of the cushion and of course shimming the rails up to 1 7/16 high

Cal
 
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The back end of the cushion is starting out to high, even with a nose height of 1 29/64"....the balls are going to bank short and the rails are going to play springy. If the nose height is higher than what i posted, the cushions are going to pinch and trap the balls because its to high.
 
calibration said:
Cobra,

What is the best bevel angle for K55 with 1 3/4 thick rails?

Cal
Click to expand...

Optimal sub rail thickness for K55 cushions is 1 11/16" with a nose height of 1 27/64". From there you can go up to 1 29/64" to slow the cue ball down, or down to 1 25/64" to speed it up, thats a 1/32nd of an inch swing in up or down in the nose height, but you really need to know what the primary game is being played on the table in order to choose which nose height is best.
 
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I gotta say, this is one of the best threads on here in a long time. Lots of great info...thanks Glen.
 
got it..........
 

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Tooler said:
I gotta say, this is one of the best threads on here in a long time. Lots of great info...thanks Glen.
Click to expand...

Although i gotta mention, there are those that will swear to anyone that'll listen to them, there's at least 100 other table mechanics out there that are just as good as i am, and a lot of them are even better, only when ever i ask them for names....they quickly forget who they are....but, that's AZB for ya....LMAO TALK THE TALK, JUST CAN'T WALK THE WALK!
 
Kevin3824 said:
I was thinking the past few days about my Diamond table. It is a 7 foot table with procut pockets. Ever since I got it I have wanted to upgrade the cushions to Artemis as I believe it would make the table a lot more responsive. It would also have a much longer warranty then the Black Diamond cushions on the table stock. As far as pocket size goes I noticed that even though I ordered it with procut pockets the side pockets are still larger than the corners. I was thinking the table would be far more challenging if the pockets were even smaller maybe 3.5" all around or 3" on the corners and 3.5 on the side pockets. After owning this table for just over a year I guess I am just getting used to it and improving my skill level a bit.

What is the general opinion of a table as described above and what would the advantages or disadvantages to having a practice table like that?
Click to expand...

Not my table but since it is a bar box, I think the corners should be 4".
And sides at 4 3/4" .
 
JoeyInCali said:
Not my table but since it is a bar box, I think the corners should be 4".
And sides at 4 3/4" .
Click to expand...

Why, when you wouldn't play on it in the first place because all you'd do is complain about how you can't make a ball, but that's a good pocket size in your opinion for everyone else....that is some expert advice right there...LMAO
 
Bevel angle

Cobra,

What is the best bevel angle for K55 with 1 3/4 thick rails?
Gold crowns are around 21, considering going to 17 1/2 to put the nose center closer to the center of the cushion and of course shimming the rails up to 1 7/16 high

Not 1 7/16 but 1 13/32

Glen , appreciate all your advise

Going to 4 1/4 pockets
 
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