Idea for Diamond Mod

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking the past few days about my Diamond table. It is a 7 foot table with procut pockets. Ever since I got it I have wanted to upgrade the cushions to Artemis as I believe it would make the table a lot more responsive. It would also have a much longer warranty then the Black Diamond cushions on the table stock. As far as pocket size goes I noticed that even though I ordered it with procut pockets the side pockets are still larger than the corners. I was thinking the table would be far more challenging if the pockets were even smaller maybe 3.5" all around or 3" on the corners and 3.5 on the side pockets. After owning this table for just over a year I guess I am just getting used to it and improving my skill level a bit.

What is the general opinion of a table as described above and what would the advantages or disadvantages to having a practice table like that?
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Standard specs do have sides larger than corners, no?

Artemis? No. The table is not cut to use artemis. Warranty? Non-issue.

3.5" pockets? Too small .4" is brutal
 

JoseV

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I personally would not do three inch pockets on my table, but that just me, I'm willing to bet that playing on a three inch pocket can be very discouraging to point where you might regret the smaller pocket, and how much would it affect you when you need to cheat the pocket for position ?

As far as changing out the rails, any signs of the rails going bad ? If not I would leave them be until they do.

I feel pool tables are like finger prints no too play the same, one table banks short, the other one plays fine, one plays slow the other plays fast.

I don't worry about having a perfect personal table to practice on cause I know when I walk in to play somewhere the conditions will not be the same as my home table.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I was thinking the past few days about my Diamond table. It is a 7 foot table with procut pockets. Ever since I got it I have wanted to upgrade the cushions to Artemis as I believe it would make the table a lot more responsive. It would also have a much longer warranty then the Black Diamond cushions on the table stock. As far as pocket size goes I noticed that even though I ordered it with procut pockets the side pockets are still larger than the corners. I was thinking the table would be far more challenging if the pockets were even smaller maybe 3.5" all around or 3" on the corners and 3.5 on the side pockets. After owning this table for just over a year I guess I am just getting used to it and improving my skill level a bit.

What is the general opinion of a table as described above and what would the advantages or disadvantages to having a practice table like that?

I'll tell ya what, I'll sell you a first edition Diamond slate for that 7ft that has pocket shelves so deep that you can't hit the object ball if its deep in the pocket and the cue ball is frozen to the rail....no need to tighten up the pockets to give you a challenge....and if you want more speed out of your rails, put 760 Simonis on it.
 

haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking the table would be far more challenging if the pockets were even smaller maybe 3.5" all around or 3" on the corners and 3.5 on the side pockets.

You would never, ever be able to make a shot down the rail into a corner pocket. Too tight.

At 3 7/8" you have to hit it perfect to make it down the rail.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I was thinking the past few days about my Diamond table. It is a 7 foot table with procut pockets. Ever since I got it I have wanted to upgrade the cushions to Artemis as I believe it would make the table a lot more responsive. It would also have a much longer warranty then the Black Diamond cushions on the table stock. As far as pocket size goes I noticed that even though I ordered it with procut pockets the side pockets are still larger than the corners. I was thinking the table would be far more challenging if the pockets were even smaller maybe 3.5" all around or 3" on the corners and 3.5 on the side pockets. After owning this table for just over a year I guess I am just getting used to it and improving my skill level a bit.

What is the general opinion of a table as described above and what would the advantages or disadvantages to having a practice table like that?

I'm guessing you never miss a shot on them stock Diamond pockets...when every Pro in the world does at some point in time in a tournament, so i was wondering why you're not dominating all the tournaments played on 7ft tables?
 

MOJOE

Work Hard, Be Humble. jbk
Silver Member
3" pockets is just insane. Anything less than 4", which is still not realistic is going to do nothing to help your game. You have to practice with realistic conditions. I'm guessing the OP did not really think this post through. JMHO. Listen to KindCobra, he knows what he's talking about.
 

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll tell ya what, I'll sell you a first edition Diamond slate for that 7ft that has pocket shelves so deep that you can't hit the object ball if its deep in the pocket and the cue ball is frozen to the rail....no need to tighten up the pockets to give you a challenge....and if you want more speed out of your rails, put 760 Simonis on it.

Glen,
That is a good idea about putting 760 on it instead of 860. When I compare the speed of a 9 foot table red label pro am to that of a 7 ft blue label pro am with the same 860 cloth the larger table seems considerably faster. Do you think putting 760 cloth on it will make up for the speed difference? The pocket shelf seems deep enough on the table as it is. Other that the cloth change how would you suggest to making the table more challenging for a practice table. It seems to me that pro-cut pockets only refers to the corners are not much different then an old Brunswick that is triple shimmed. Granted you cannot put two balls in side by side on the corners but you still can on the sides with room to spare.

Actually your the perfect person to address these questions as I believe you had a lot to do with the design.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Glen,
That is a good idea about putting 760 on it instead of 860. When I compare the speed of a 9 foot table red label pro am to that of a 7 ft blue label pro am with the same 860 cloth the larger table seems considerably faster. Do you think putting 760 cloth on it will make up for the speed difference? The pocket shelf seems deep enough on the table as it is. Other that the cloth change how would you suggest to making the table more challenging for a practice table. It seems to me that pro-cut pockets only refers to the corners are not much different then an old Brunswick that is triple shimmed. Granted you cannot put two balls in side by side on the corners but you still can on the sides with room to spare.

Actually your the perfect person to address these questions as I believe you had a lot to do with the design.

On a red label, rail speed and playing surface speed is two different things. Your bed cloth has the same speed as the 9ft with the same cloth installed, meaning it requires the same stroke effort to draw the ball back 2ft on both tables. Problem is if the rebound speed decay is more on your 7ft than the red label 9ft, the only way to match that same speed is to have the sub rails be the sa.e on your 7ft as they are on the 9ft. 760 will speed up the rails on your table, but it'll speed up the playing surface as well so that you end up drawing the cue ball back further on your table with that same 2ft draw on the 9ft so there is where you have to adjust your stroke. So, the only real answer is to design your 7ft to play like the 9ft, or design the 9ft to play like your 7ft, there's no cushion or cloth change that will make the two the same.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Glen,
That is a good idea about putting 760 on it instead of 860. When I compare the speed of a 9 foot table red label pro am to that of a 7 ft blue label pro am with the same 860 cloth the larger table seems considerably faster. Do you think putting 760 cloth on it will make up for the speed difference? The pocket shelf seems deep enough on the table as it is. Other that the cloth change how would you suggest to making the table more challenging for a practice table. It seems to me that pro-cut pockets only refers to the corners are not much different then an old Brunswick that is triple shimmed. Granted you cannot put two balls in side by side on the corners but you still can on the sides with room to spare.

Actually your the perfect person to address these questions as I believe you had a lot to do with the design.
What you need to understand is its like making a long shot on a 7ft, its always going to be shorter than the longest shot on a 9ft. It's not the table that improves your game, its your training on the table that does that. If the table seems to easy, then change your training to make it harder. Like playing equal offence, if breaking and running out 10 racks to pocket 150 balls don't cause you to miss, then startincluding the X factor after every break. Look at the layout of the balls, determine if you can pocket every ball without touching a second ball in the process of running out. If that's still not challenging enough, then after the break instead of starting with the easiest balls pocketed first, start with the hardest shots first, in which that for the most part is what kind of shot your facing when you come to the table after your opponent has missed. To many people rely on the table to improve their game by being harder to pocket tbe balls as if the more challenging the table is, the better your skills are, if that were the case, why then does the person who practiced on a 9ft table with 4" corner pockets....miss a shot on a 7ft with 4 1/2" corner pockets? Focus, concentration, and the ability to block out distractions is the key to not missing a shot....and those are the skills you bring with you when you go out and play, honed by the many hours of practice on your....standard 7ft at home:smile:
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
I prefer playing on 4.5 inch pockets....with the RKC cut.
....when I start beating Willie's 526 regularly, I'll consider tightening them up.

pt....has a lot of experience playing trap snooker....but NEVER for pleasure
 

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seems like general consensus is to simply practice on the table with it as is until I acquire the skills to be a world beater then consider making it more difficult at home then it is in any bar. It seems to me practicing on specific target areas of a pocket on a table with smaller pockets would be advantageous if I went to a same sized table with larger pockets to compete on. Basically from the previous postings so far the only thing I should even consider doing is next time I need to change out the cloth I should put on 760 instead of 860 and that will only really increase the bed speed not the bank speed. Or maybe use those crappy pocket reducers at home that do not respond like any cushions I have played on in the past they are so stiff.
 
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pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Seems like general consensus is to simply practice on the table with it as is until I acquire the skills to be a world beater then consider making it more difficult at home then it is in any bar. It seems to me practicing on specific target areas of a pocket on a table with smaller pockets would be advantageous if I went to a same sized table with larger pockets to compete on. Basically from the previous postings so far the only thing I should even consider doing is next time I need to change out the cloth I should put on 760 instead of 860 and that will only really increase the bed speed not the bank speed. Or maybe use those crappy pocket reducers at home that do not respond like any cushions I have played on in the past they are so stiff.

Kev, there's nothing stopping you from hitting a ball dead center into the pocket....
....no matter how big it is.
On tight pockets, your position play and run-out patterns are going to suffer...
...you'll be too busy just trying to make the damn ball.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
IMO a good practice table mimicks the tables you compete on. Tight pockets might help you with ball pocketing skills if you dont get frustrated first. Pocketing balls really should not be an area that you need to work on a lot if you are already a pretty good player, it seems to me that one is better off working on cue ball control and patterns, then you never have a difficult shot to make in the first place
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
I had my pockets tightened from 4 1/2 to 4 3/8s...not much of a reduction, but I like it and with the deep shelf on the Diamond slate, anything tighter is almost unplayable IMHO. You can get away with gaffing up a Brunswick with 3 3/8 inch pockets and still shoot standard shots, but the Diamond will spit a lot of shots out that are correctly hit, but not tolerated when the ball hits the inside of the facing with outside spin or too much pepper. I'd recommend staying with the standard pro-cut standard size (4 1/2) or not tightening things any more than about 1/8 of an inch.

Another point, most "tightening" of pockets is either adding a shim or putting on a thicker facing, which can deaden the rails slightly right at the points of the pocket.
 

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would have gotten a 9ft if I had the room. At this point Im thinking if I find a place with enough room i might even go for a 10 ft bigfoot table.
 

calibration

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cushion comparison

I was all set to purchase Artemis Intercontinental cushions for my table because of all the raves but, before I was going to shell out the additional $250 over other rails I decided to perform a test. I was able to receive some sample pieces of Artemis Intercontinental, Artemis k66, Super speed and my 10 year old champion k55. Glued them all up on a rail at correct nose heights. Clamped the rail to my table and made an inclined wedge to test them.
Results:
Best - super speed better rebound over all beatin intercontinental by only 2" at half table
Intercontinental 2nd
My old k55 championship was only behind intercontinental by 2"
Artemis k66 was 2" behind champ
I was completely surprised. Dang marketers
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I was all set to purchase Artemis Intercontinental cushions for my table because of all the raves but, before I was going to shell out the additional $250 over other rails I decided to perform a test. I was able to receive some sample pieces of Artemis Intercontinental, Artemis k66, Super speed and my 10 year old champion k55. Glued them all up on a rail at correct nose heights. Clamped the rail to my table and made an inclined wedge to test them.
Results:
Best - super speed better rebound over all beatin intercontinental by only 2" at half table
Intercontinental 2nd
My old k55 championship was only behind intercontinental by 2"
Artemis k66 was 2" behind champ
I was completely surprised. Dang marketers

How thick was your rail, what was the nose heights, and was there cloth wraped around the cushions?
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
to the OP, more invites are in order with a slight upping of the coinage.
It's all I kind think of after a night of fewer 1/4's than I began with.
 
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