If Bonus Ball fails...

[JoeyA]

Probably because nobody could benefit from the failure of a promoter who's bringing 60 top players a good income...

I, for one, don't want it to fail at all. Like the IPT or the PBT, Camel tours and such things, it will leave a hole if it fails with all the top players involved in it. Nobody wants this to happen.

That said, I still think the way they handled/are handling things could be much improved, and I think they deserve most of the hate they're getting just because of their general cocky attitude.


I don't think anybody who loves the game out there wants such a venture to fail. Get a kick in the butt and start acting like adults and gentlemen, maybe

Are you sure you're French? :grin: Looking for the "Like" button....

 

[bfdlad]

In my opinion, the top 200 pool players in the country need to be able to make a living at pool. I'll say #200 needs to be making $50,000 per year. That would be my idea of an indication that pro pool was healthy.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying I would love to see it.

Fatz

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

Worst part is Bass Pro Shops has enough income to sponsor a NASCAR Sprint Cup Team. Must be a few folks out there actually fishing for Bass :grin: !

Strange but true. Even our small local market has several hundred pool players playing nearly every day. Not a "pro" player among them! They do know who the Black Widow is though.

Lyn

How many of those people own their own cues?

I just thought of something. If you fish, even casually, you MUST buy stuff. Companies that make fishing poles and tackle have a national market.

If you play pool casually, you don't have to buy anything, just pay table time. Table time is paid to a local room - no national advertising there...

sigh...

 

[thewhiffer]

I am starting to see some posts that I think address some overall issues (positively) and have potential to start/direct conversation(s) in a meaningful way if it was to be done in a more formal environment.

The experience(s) and history of Jay and CJ are invaluable as is the respect that they have earned at all ends of this community to help to direct the focus that would be needed. It is not that large of a community and in my humble opinion if they were joined by about 6-8 men of similar credentials, with good will and a desire to do it, they could have a real positive impact on the future of our sport.

 

[thewhiffer]

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

No one could name them nor could anyone disagree with your point. However, if that was what Fatz would "like" to see, as would we all, we would, in the end, settle for #50 making that. The competition to see who would be #50 in that scenario would be great.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

Well, I was counting the Canadians too... just kidding.

I'm not saying I know anything about this stuff. I just picked a number that sounded reasonable. I know the US Open tries to get a field of 256. But I do know many of those are amateurs who just sign up. Also I forgot to take into account that many, many of those are from other countries.

Let's make the number 100 then. But the point is, that if there were "a lot" of North American pro pool players and even the lower echelon of that group could actually make a living at it, then we could consider "pro pool" as being successful as an industry.

Not saying I know how to get there, just saying, as a pool fan, it would be very nice.

Fatz

 

[cardiac kid]

How many of those people own their own cues?

Fatz,

Both two's and both three's on the team I play on own their own equipment. Not only that but they treat the equipment with respect. My best guess is the great majority of players, regardless of skill level, own their own. The folks who stop by once a week to bang balls around may not. There is a thriving market for HD, Bud or other themed cues and cases. All on-line and brick and mortar retailers thrive on those customers. Probably better know on AZ as the "APA" crowd. They are the same target as Bass Masters for Bass Pro Shops.

Lyn

 

[watchez]

Hi Jay!

First off, as I've said many times, you're one of my favorites in the booth. I love Pool Wars and I highly respect you.

Couple quick questions:

As a former room owner, what would the lease be worth on a building in Vegas the size of the Bonus Ball venue?

From start to finish, how long would the Ultimate 10 ball, big foot tournament and Southern Classic take?

If you ran Bonus Ball, what would you do differently? (Without changing the game, etc) Would you accommodate the schedules of other tournaments and keep paying the bills on a building to not be used? (I know my 'work' doesn't schedule me around being able to attend the SBE or other events, I have to make a choice. Make money or go to a tournament. Because I have a steady income, it's a lot easier for me to choose the tournament because I know for sure when I get back I can always make more money. )

Some tough questions there. First of all I don't know the size of the building they are using or the prevailing market rates in Vegas currently for commercial property. I'm guessing they are paying about $1/sq.ft. per month. So about $5,000 a month for 5,000 square feet.

Probably even less than $1sq ft/month - unless they dogged the lease as well.

Just for example - http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18028950/4631-Dean-Martin-Dr-Las-Vegas-NV/?linkcode=31000

this is .45 sq ft

there are plenty of others. http://www.loopnet.com/Nevada/Las-Vegas-Commercial-Real-Estate/

I got into a business early in life with a very experienced partner. We had to raise the ceiling 6 inches for the business model to work. My partner refused for us to pay for this and held his ground til the landlord broke and paid for it. The reason is, as I quickly learned, is that you don't improve someone elses space unless you have to. If they really did put 1.5 million into the BB Arena, that is nothing short of ludicrous. Hopefully a lot of that money was spent on equipment that can be walked out the door.

 

[Cashman]

Rental price, per month, not a purchase.

Where in Alberta is this?

Fort Mac you can rent retail space for $2-$4 a square foot. Calgary is anywhere from 75 cents-2 bucks. To rent out of the way warehouse space and convert it like BB did, would be on the low end of those ranges.

 

[watchez]

Where in Alberta is this?

Fort Mac you can rent retail space for $2-$4 a square foot. Calgary is anywhere from 75 cents-2 bucks. To rent out of the way warehouse space and convert it like BB did, would be on the low end of those ranges.

Jay is pricing per month
Ghost is pricing per year

Big difference.

$12 sq foot x 5000 sq ft = $60,000 per year divided by 12 months = $5,000 per month divided by 5000 sq ft = $1 sq ft per month

 

[Ghosst]

Southern Alberta.

Example: Pool hall's rent is 10K/mo.

 

[pt109]

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

If 150 poolplayers could make a decent living professionally.....
...within 3 years there would be 500 pro level players.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Yes

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

There is easily 200 players that play well enough in the US that would and could enter events if there was any chance of making a living.
Gary Lutman

 

[watchez]

Southern Alberta.

Example: Pool hall's rent is 10K/mo.

Big difference between Retail space and Commercial or Warehouse space.

BB would have been dumb to go into Retail space as there is no need.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I don't know if Vegas is any different than any other cities in North America but where I live, theres plenty of commercial and warehouse space sitting empty that the owners are paying property taxes on.

Just about any of them would love to have a tenant to offset the property tax and put a little in their pocket.

 

[cardiac kid]

I don't know if Vegas is any different than any other cities in North America but where I live, theres plenty of commercial and warehouse space sitting empty that the owners are paying property taxes on.

Just about any of them would love to have a tenant to offset the property tax and put a little in their pocket.

Problem is, in the US, property owners have to consider receiving rent money for the space or allowing the space to remain empty and take a tax write-off. There is a fine edge. A lot of property owners I know prefer to have the space empty ..

Lyn

 

[Majic]

I personally do not believe that there are 200 Pro pool players in the USA. Well I couldnot name them thats fo sure and I am not talking about just someone who signs up for a pro event. That does not make a pro player just my opinion.

Pro pool player is an ambiguous term but there are 50 great states in the USA and that equals a sum of a mere 4 players from each state. There are 4 top flight players from each state, but there is no way to showcase their talents.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

St. Louis.

Pro pool player is an ambiguous term but there are 50 great states in the USA and that equals a sum of a mere 4 players from each state. There are 4 top flight players from each state, but there is no way to showcase their talents.

There are 10 from St. Louis area alone that can compete, A few may need to hit the gym first.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

IMHO Pool is dying, as the people who we were, when we were kids playing Pool at the Boys Clubs, or Y.M.C.A.'s in the U.S.A..

Are now playing with Circa 2013 Technology Devices, that give instant gratification. Wii, Nintendo, Video Games, Computer, Tweeking on Twitter, posting their life histories, plus ever move they make on Face book, and other Social Media.

So maybe the idea is how to get people interested in a great, and challenging game who are not in their 60's, 70's or older. How do we reach out to young kids say in their teens, and preteens, and get them interested in Pool?

Yes I know ever Boy & Girls Club in the Phoenix Metro Area has a Pool Table or two, but these kids are for the most part from shall we say poor families who barley in many cases can afford the annual Boys & Girls Club Dues.

Pool already has 8, 9, 10 Ball, 14/1, One Hole, and those game should capture some interest in the game of Pool. JMHO.

 

[thewhiffer]

Hi Jay!

First off, as I've said many times, you're one of my favorites in the booth. I love Pool Wars and I highly respect you.

Couple quick questions:

As a former room owner, what would the lease be worth on a building in Vegas the size of the Bonus Ball venue?

From start to finish, how long would the Ultimate 10 ball, big foot tournament and Southern Classic take?

If you ran Bonus Ball, what would you do differently? (Without changing the game, etc) Would you accommodate the schedules of other tournaments and keep paying the bills on a building to not be used? (I know my 'work' doesn't schedule me around being able to attend the SBE or other events, I have to make a choice. Make money or go to a tournament. Because I have a steady income, it's a lot easier for me to choose the tournament because I know for sure when I get back I can always make more money. )

Not to move off the subject or the points raised here but I find a part of this interesting.

Early on in my interest in pool I played out of a pool hall that was a basement of about 6-8000 sq. ft. I remember thinking that it must be a good deal for both the landlord and the tenant. I had leased hundreds of locations in major shopping centers and also a lot in strip malls. I understood this business and, again, thought that this must be a great marriage between the landlord and tenant.

One day when I arrived the door was locked and there was a sheriff's sign on the door. By then I was friendly with the operator. I discovered that the lease had expired some months ago and the landlord, fueled by the success of the pool hall, had decided to raise the rent by $5,000 per month. After a standoff the operator was locked out, eventually allowed to remove his leaseholds and now, 6 years later the space is still empty.