If Bonus Ball fails...

When the IPT came in to the Pool world, they scheduled over
existing events. Barry had to move the US OPEN dates.

I really don't know why people are trying to make this such a negative
event.

It's really frustrating reading all about an event that will or
will not make it.

The owner of one of the East Coast tours, is playing in the Bonus Ball.
His events are continuing if I am not mistaken.

Not every team is going to play every weekend, so players will continue
to attend the big ticket events.

Enough of the sky is falling.

ps Jam I have informed our army that you have been taking pots shots at us.
They will be getting our 8 man army to look at your posts, shame on u, u
American rooter.
hugs
mrs.g:smile:
 
center pocket said:
You know, as an amateur I would try to make this year the year I go to the Southern Classic. With the scheduling conflict of BB removing some of the top dogs, I might actually cash!!!

How many amateurs out there that read this post feel this way?
Click to expand...

I couldn't cash if it were just you and I in the tournament :o!!!

Maniac (yeah, I'm THAT bad :()
 
peteypooldude said:
What pool needs is a fckin miracle with fans like its got
Click to expand...

You kind of validated the point of the post you disagreed with (and quoted) with this statement.

You see....pool has the fans. Pro players....not so much (at least not enough to matter).

Pool = very popular
Pro pool = not too popular

I'm speaking of the popularity of the masses, not hardcore pool fans.

I had a league teammate over at the house today playing some 9-ball. He's been in leagues for at least 5 years now, mostly on teams of mine. I mentioned Shane Van Boening and Johnny Archer today together in a single sentence. He looked me dead in the eyes and said "I don't know who either one of those guys are".

Tell me again somebody, how important to the industry is professional pool???

Maniac
 
wahcheck said:
Opinions being given; here's mine....

Pool will never die.....as long as there's a pool table somewhere with cuesticks and balls, someone will be playing pool.....

Professional pool is what I guess you are all talking about; not so much about Pool itself as a sport or industry.....even with all the pool halls that have closed or will close, I don't believe pool will die.....
Click to expand...

Me neither!!!

Maniac
 
You're wise. You wouldn't like your end of it.
Click to expand...

I would seriously like to bite as well but considering that I received a few PMs and reps
from my American friends and acquaintances re your Canadian pot shots, it would serve no purpose other than telling you that they too feel that you are out there and alone with your statements.

The 49th is an imaginary line, we all come from the same blood lines. When one of your soldiers or one of ours dies in some far away middle eastern place, we shed the same tears, they all taste salty no matter which end of the 49th we live on.

We like to wave our flag too Jen.

To start pointing out short comings of either country would serve no purpose in a pool thread.

But, what Dee Lewis mentioned is true. BB is putting money in American Players pockets no matter how long it lasts.

It got me thinking of how nice that mill and a half arena might have looked in my small city just 300 miles west of where Larry is from.

When you watch the games from the inside, it wouldn't matter if the arena was in Regina or Vegas, it all looks the same.

I can tell you one thing, even with the state of pool being in somewhat of a decline even where I live, that BB Arena would be packed to the rafters every day. I would guarantee that one.

Can't blame the players for not wanting to live in Regina tho. The cost of living is pretty cheap on the other hand. They would get treated like Kings as well.

So why did Larry decide to take his idea south. Hmmmm, maybe the investors, you know, the guys that are really making this happen are American.

That would be bad, right Jen.

Hey, I live in North America. That makes me American too.
 
center pocket said:
You know, as an amateur I would try to make this year the year I go to the Southern Classic. With the scheduling conflict of BB removing some of the top dogs, I might actually cash!!!

How many amateurs out there that read this post feel this way?
Click to expand...


God forbid people in pool actually look at the other side of the coin, they can't, won't and don't . Pool is not that smart<-----sad to say. forget insight, optimism , positive thinking, all that is absent in the pool world. Its a world full of negativity, hate, greed, stubbornness, non-forgiving, once something is labeled in pool it never changes. I seen this for the past 28 years and it aint changing anytime soon. Glad I aint got a dog in that race. I just like to play and watch, beyond that-i'm done. Its terminally ill. Want something positive go to the gym for a year and compare that world with pool, thats why Sugartree cues are just about done, Eric would rather be at the gym-as would I(if I could). its a happier place than pool,
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I would seriously like to bite as well but considering that I received a few PMs and reps
from my American friends and acquaintances re your Canadian pot shots, it would serve no purpose other than telling you that they too feel that you are out there and alone with your statements.

The 49th is an imaginary line, we all come from the same blood lines. When one of your soldiers or one of ours dies in some far away middle eastern place, we shed the same tears, they all taste salty no matter which end of the 49th we live on.

We like to wave our flag too Jen.

To start pointing out short comings of either country would serve no purpose in a pool thread.

But, what Dee Lewis mentioned is true. BB is putting money in American Players pockets no matter how long it lasts.

It got me thinking of how nice that mill and a half arena might have looked in my small city just 300 miles west of where Larry is from.

When you watch the games from the inside, it wouldn't matter if the arena was in Regina or Vegas, it all looks the same.

I can tell you one thing, even with the state of pool being in somewhat of a decline even where I live, that BB Arena would be packed to the rafters every day. I would guarantee that one.

Can't blame the players for not wanting to live in Regina tho. The cost of living is pretty cheap on the other hand. They would get treated like Kings as well.

So why did Larry decide to take his idea south. Hmmmm, maybe the investors, you know, the guys that are really making this happen are American.

That would be bad, right Jen.

Hey, I live in North America. That makes me American too.
Click to expand...


I'd rather be in South America drinking a coconut and getting some sun:D:D
 
You're wise. You wouldn't like your end of it.
Click to expand...

I would seriously like to bite as well but considering that I received a few PMs and reps
from my American friends and acquaintances re your Canadian pot shots, it would serve no purpose other than telling you that they too feel that you are out there and alone with your statements.

The 49th is an imaginary line, we all come from the same blood lines. When one of your soldiers or one of ours dies in some far away middle eastern place, we shed the same tears, they all taste salty no matter which end of the 49th we live on.

We like to wave our flag too Jen.

To start pointing out short comings of either country would serve no purpose in a pool thread.

But, what Dee Lewis mentioned is true. BB is putting money in American Players pockets no matter how long it lasts.

It got me thinking of how nice that mill and a half arena might have looked in my small city just 300 miles west of where Larry is from.

When you watch the games from the inside, it wouldn't matter if the arena was in Regina or Vegas, it all looks the same.

I can tell you one thing, even with the state of pool being in somewhat of a decline even where I live, that BB Arena would be packed to the rafters every day. I would guarantee that one.

Can't blame the players for not wanting to live in Regina tho. The cost of living is pretty cheap on the other hand. They would get treated like Kings as well.

So why did Larry decide to take his idea south. Hmmmm, maybe the investors, you know, the guys that are really making this happen are American.

That would be bad, right Jen.

Hey, I live in North America. That makes me American too.
 
When you watch the games from the inside, it wouldn't matter if the arena was in Regina or Vegas, it all looks the same.
Might look the same on the inside Terry.... definitely not once ya leave the arena however.... Vegas parking lots are more comfy to sleep on.... and a lot warmer.... I should know! ;)
 
Fatboy said:
God forbid people in pool actually look at the other side of the coin, they can't, won't and don't . Pool is not that smart<-----sad to say. forget insight, optimism , positive thinking, all that is absent in the pool world. Its a world full of negativity, hate, greed, stubbornness, non-forgiving, once something is labeled in pool it never changes. I seen this for the past 28 years and it aint changing anytime soon. Glad I aint got a dog in that race. I just like to play and watch, beyond that-i'm done. Its terminally ill. Want something positive go to the gym for a year and compare that world with pool, thats why Sugartree cues are just about done, Eric would rather be at the gym-as would I(if I could). its a happier place than pool,
Click to expand...


i'll just say it again.....
 
Were good !

Blue Hog ridr said:
I would seriously like to bite as well but considering that I received a few PMs and reps
from my American friends and acquaintances re your Canadian pot shots, it would serve no purpose other than telling you that they too feel that you are out there and alone with your statements.

The 49th is an imaginary line, we all come from the same blood lines. When one of your soldiers or one of ours dies in some far away middle eastern place, we shed the same tears, they all taste salty no matter which end of the 49th we live on.

We like to wave our flag too Jen.

To start pointing out short comings of either country would serve no purpose in a pool thread.

But, what Dee Lewis mentioned is true. BB is putting money in American Players pockets no matter how long it lasts.

It got me thinking of how nice that mill and a half arena might have looked in my small city just 300 miles west of where Larry is from.

When you watch the games from the inside, it wouldn't matter if the arena was in Regina or Vegas, it all looks the same.

I can tell you one thing, even with the state of pool being in somewhat of a decline even where I live, that BB Arena would be packed to the rafters every day. I would guarantee that one.

Can't blame the players for not wanting to live in Regina tho. The cost of living is pretty cheap on the other hand. They would get treated like Kings as well.

So why did Larry decide to take his idea south. Hmmmm, maybe the investors, you know, the guys that are really making this happen are American.

That would be bad, right Jen.

Hey, I live in North America. That makes me American too.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with Canadians in my book. OOPS I forgot Ron Wiseman. But the rest are ok ! LoL
 
For Bonus Ball to have success they need to have their top players there every week. Archer is in the Ultimate, The Southern and another event so his alternate will be playing.... That's bad for BB... And bad for the other tournaments because 30 players will not be able to attend. 30 is not 6. 30 is a wayyy bigger number when you are looking at the small total number of pro speed players out there..

In a 128man event that's a pretty big hit even if the event fills with lesser players because the field has been watered down... Fewer people will show up to support the event and fewer will be interested in buying the PPV or DVD... With Fewer people in the seats fewer of the vendors will want to show and everything snowballs... The added money keeps dropping and the tournament promoter calls it and the only thing left is Bonus Ball....

Until that happens Bonus Ball will have viewers that are interested in the season but be left watching some weeks where their favorites are not playing.... lets say I am huge Fan of Hohmann... Well Hohmann's alt is going to be playing quite a bit... Will I want to pay for those weeks? Will the alternate score enough points to get the team into the playoffs?? Will the lack of a consistent team roster be the last straw to cause people to not to embrace the sport??

IF there is prize money at the end and all the teams are neck and neck... Will ANY of the players hit the US Open if they think it will affect the playoffs? How about at the end and you are Archer and Atlanta misses the playoffs because you got roasted the weeks you were gone to Southern and elsewhere...

Alternates don't work unless there is a personal emergency... IF there is big money at the end... Unless you REQUIRE alternates to play a specific amount.

It would be far better for everyone if they sit down and ask the players for input on what events need worked around... I know this season it is a done deal because of the start dates but next season??? C'mon Man!!!

Chris
 
JD, you can only be a Hater or Negative if you disagree with certain posters.

There are only a couple of people on AZ that are qualified to brand others as such.

When said Poster says,"And thats all I have to say about that", it doesn't mean that
you have won the argument, it just means that you are no longer worthy of debating with them and are being Poo Pooed away. They will often deflect the original debate over to some far fetched topic that has absolutely nothing to do with what you were talking about in the first place. This is their secret way of feeling like they came out ahead on any given topic. So, an Inferiority Complex can be easily switched to a
Superiority Complex.



Chad, now that I think of it, I seem to remember that Vegas parking lot story.

At least when you woke up, you still had your money. That wouldn't have happened in our city. You'd be lucky to have your pants.
 
tumblr_m4i6cfncpm1qibjf0o1_500.gif
 
I believe what you will see after season 1 is top players realizing the money they are are getting is not enough to justify staying with bonus ball. This will open up spots for lower tier players. That in turn will lead to fewer and fewer viewer, then leading to bonus ball dying a slow death by season 3.
 
Roger Long said:
I've read a lot of the posts in the threads here that predict Bonus Ball's ultimate failure and I'm just wondering: if it really does fail, (as many people on here seem to hope it will) how will that failure benefit the sport overall?

Thoughts?

Roger
Click to expand...

Many predict it will fail, but the prevailing view on this forum is hope for success so that so many deserving pros can earn a sustainable income.

Nonetheless, you raise an interesting question. The failure of bonus ball will only benefit the sport in two ways. My comments pertain to men's pool only.

Failure of Bonus Ball Could Help Pool as Follows
1) It would free pros up for the events with which bonus ball might conflict, thereby improving and deepening fields at the top events played on North American soil, the events that American pool fans attend.
2) It would allow the North American pros, who, other than Shane, have virtually fallen off the map on the world rotational pool scene, to get back to nine/ten ball before the gap between them and the internationals grows even wider. After all, just a few of the original 36 Bonus Ball players are from overseas (and who cares who the alternates are?). In fact, of the ten best players who live overseas (Darren Appleton, Francisco Bustamante, JL Chang, Ko Pin Yi, Dennis Orcullo, Alex Pagulayan, Ralf Souquet, Lee Vann Corteza, Wu Chia Ching, Chin Shun Yang), just two of them will are among the original 36 Bonus Ball players, so most of the overseas stars of international pool will focus chiefly on rotational pool games.

Failure of Bonus Ball Could Hurt Pool As Follows
Unfortunately, the failure of Bonus Ball will hurt North American pool more than it would help, at least if its failure is gradual rather than swift and sudden. Pool's business model in America is so weak now that it's being held together, to some extent, by proprietors who persist with their efforts despite how marginally profitable it is to promote the most major events on the American pool calendar. To me, in 2013, those are the DCC 9-ball, DCC banks, DCC one pocket, DCC 10-ball, Turning Stone (two a year I think), The Players Championship, Southern Classic 9-ball, Southern Classic banks, Southern Classic one pocket, Southern Classic 10-ball, US Open 8-ball, US Open 9-ball, US Open 10-ball, US Open one pocket, and the Ultimate 10-ball. Of those 16 events, 11 are produced by either Mark Griffin or Greg Sullivan, and Bonus Ball has, through marginal cooperation, threatened the vitality of their events. There is a danger that some, or even all of those events, will be lost if Bonus Ball players are less than loyal to these promoters. Such an outcome would be devastating to North American pro pool.

We'll see how it goes.
 
JAM said:
some promoters will segregate these Bonus Ball players from competing in their events after their blatant disregard of scheduling conflicts and disloyalty.
.
Click to expand...

There is a chapter in Jay Helfert’s book, Pool Wars, which covers player loyalty quite well. In that instance it would seem that the players were lead down the wrong path by someone who did not have their best interests at heart.

The situation today may be different, I do not know but I would ask the question if one should expect loyalty to a tournament when the tournament payout is so heavily weighted to the first few places. It is difficult to remain loyal when you have a sure source of revenue (loyalty does not put food on the table) as opposed to a 4 to 6 chance in 30 to finish better than break even and a real chance to end up in a minus situation.

I say this while clearly hoping that the best do show up for these events. I like to take my holidays on the installment plan geared to going to see the best play live in tournaments whenever I can.

I also admit that most feelings I have about bonus ball is skewed by this although I try to remain fair and objective. It is simply me looking after my self interest so I know that I should not begrudge them, the pro players, the opportunity to make a living any way that they choose just because it affects my holiday of choice since I don’t plan to go if the field is not as strong as I have been accustomed to. I would still watch the PPV.

Although some of the choices for alternates have potential, I think that the use of alternates was a major concession by BB to the players in particular and the community in general but it could really come back to bite them.

Maybe the promoters have to “show them the money”. Increase the purse and make the payout more attractive for placing 6th to 30th and perhaps they will come. Might work better than threats.
 
thewhiffer said:
There is a chapter in Jay Helfert’s book, Pool Wars, which covers player loyalty quite well. In that instance it would seem that the players were lead down the wrong path by someone who did not have their best interests at heart.

The situation today may be different, I do not know but I would ask the question if one should expect loyalty to a tournament when the tournament payout is so heavily weighted to the first few places. It is difficult to remain loyal when you have a sure source of revenue (loyalty does not put food on the table) as opposed to a 4 to 6 chance in 30 to finish better than break even and a real chance to end up in a minus situation.

I say this while clearly hoping that the best do show up for these events. I like to take my holidays on the installment plan geared to going to see the best play live in tournaments whenever I can.

I also admit that most feelings I have about bonus ball is skewed by this although I try to remain fair and objective. It is simply me looking after my self interest so I know that I should not begrudge them, the pro players, the opportunity to make a living any way that they choose just because it affects my holiday of choice since I don’t plan to go if the field is not as strong as I have been accustomed to. I would still watch the PPV.

Although some of the choices for alternates have potential, I think that the use of alternates was a major concession by BB to the players in particular and the community in general but it could really come back to bite them.

Maybe the promoters have to “show them the money”. Increase the purse and make the payout more attractive for placing 6th to 30th and perhaps they will come. Might work better than threats.
Click to expand...

Thank you Jerry for your comments. I would point out to you that in all individual sports the top guys win the most money. And that's the nature of the game where competition is involved. If a player is good enough (like Shane) to make it to the top, there are rewards. Otherwise it's a struggle to make it from tourney to tourney.

In that respect I see the allure of a guaranteed pay check, albeit a small one. Most players will not use alternates simply because they only get paid if they play. My objection now and forever has been the scheduling of BB matches right on top of the Southern Classic and the Bigfoot Challenge. This was no accident and no one can convince me that it HAD to be this way. You can sell that line to someone else.

As for my opinion of BB at this point in time, it's a small scale version of the IPT. Lots of big promises with nothing in writing. They are definitely protecting their backs. And like the IPT it is destined for the scrap heap of pool. Poor organization, poor planning, poor promotion/PR and a quirky game can only lead to one outcome. It's hard enough to be successful in any new start-up doing everything right. Do it all wrong and all I can say is good luck. Nothing has happened in the last two weeks to change my mind.
 
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